Food through security

[casper_jj11]

Ok, I was going to stay out of this but just can't. It amazes me that there are people in this world that value a peanut butter sandwich more than someone's life. Incredible. Ok. I feel better. Flame me if you like.

 

[prncess674]

Ok, I was going to stay out of this but just can't. It amazes me that there are people in this world that value a peanut butter sandwich more than someone's life. Incredible. Ok. I feel better. Flame me if you like.

Your allergies are your problem and it shouldn't encroach on my life. It is ridiculous to encroach on my freedoms. To put this in other terms, let's say you have a dog and your next door neighbor determines they are allergic to your dog. Would you like the government to come in and say sorry buddy, your neighbor is allergic to dogs so Fido is gonna have to go. I paid just as much (or more) for my ticket and you making demands of me are ridiculous.

As stated previously if you are THAT allergic to peanuts you probably shouldn't be going to WDW where there are peanut products all over the park.

 

[NYDisneyKid]

Careful with that advice.

If a flight attendant tells you not to bring peanut products on board and you refuse, you may find yourself arguing what constitutes "intimidation" and "interference" with an airport police officer, who will probably be inclined to let a judge sort it out.

They (the flight attendants) dont see the peanuts I bring onboard. All they see (if they even look at all being as busy as they are while boarding) is a bag. If it made it through security thats all that was required.

 

[Ctsplaysinrain]

I asked about this once. I was in a flight about a year ago when they did announce that there was someone with a severe peanut allergy and to refrain from eating peanuts if possible. I was traveling alone but when I went to the bathroom , I questioned a flight attendant about this... If I had been traveling with my Autistic child, this would have caused an issue. Peanut butter is one of the few things that he will eat, especially considering that you can not take much through security nor can you properly ( ice etc) store food items. This was a 5-6 hour non stop flight- west coast to Florida. She explained that peanut butter is not really an issue because it doesnt have the "dust" which is normally the issue for allergy suffererers. Also, she explained that they could move rows around etc... And that they could not actually stop my child from eating peanut butter if needed but they make the announcement so "people are warned and they could try and minimize the danger."

 

[casper_jj11]

Your allergies are your problem and it shouldn't encroach on my life. It is ridiculous to encroach on my freedoms. To put this in other terms, let's say you have a dog and your next door neighbor determines they are allergic to your dog. Would you like the government to come in and say sorry buddy, your neighbor is allergic to dogs so Fido is gonna have to go. I paid just as much (or more) for my ticket and you making demands of me are ridiculous.

As stated previously if you are THAT allergic to peanuts you probably shouldn't be going to WDW where there are peanut products all over the park.

Wow. It wasn't directed at you, just the way the thread was going.

Just to set a few things straight, and then I'm bowing out. I don't have a peanut allergy. Even though my daughter does, we're very lucky that she actually needs to injest it for a reaction. I never have and never will ask that this request be made on an airline even though I have heard it. The outcome of the debate doesn't affect me in the least. I'm just baffled that for anyone, the right to eat a sandwich trumps someone's health. If I was on a plane and had someone next to me who said the smell of my sandwich/food was making her sick because she was pregnant for example, I'd stop and put it away. It's just having empathy for someone else, not an infringement on my 'personal freedom'.

They've already banned smoking on airplanes... if they ban something else because of the health impact on someone else, I'm ok with that.

And as a last note, for anyone with peanut allergies concerns reading this, Disney is amazing for those with food allergies, including peanut. Of all the places we ate on our last trip, not one had peanut butter sandwiches on the menu. It can be avoided if you need to.

 

[goofy4tink]

Just a point of note, they can REQUEST that you not bring on peanut products, but there is no legal standing to forbid you from being peanut products on the plane. If you want peanut products then feel free to consume to your heart's content.

They can make all the requests in the world, but that doesn't mean anyone listens to them. Frequently I am one of the last to board due to my work schedule and will frequently have my headphones on till the very last minute. I only switch them off till requested by the FA as the flight door is closing. No way for me to know that my peanut butter crackers were a dicey substance. It is in no way the airline's responsibililty to police a flight for allergy materials. Just about any and all substances are allergic to someone. if someone were to be allergic to me eating PB crackers 3 rows away, then they should arrange private transport. In fact they should steer clear of WDW in all circumstances. PBJ uncrustables are served all over the parks and little grubby kids who consumed them are touching anything and everything in the parks.

As someone who has flown 100K per years since 1998 (over 1M flown) not once have I ever been diverted due to a medical emergency. On a few occasions we were given priority landing and medical staff met us on the ground to adminster first aid and on one occasion (trans Atlantic) we had a passenger kick the bucket on board. She was moved to an empty row and covered with a blanket. Medical staff arrived on board and removed the body once we landed.

If one has that much of a peanut allergy then carry an epi pen or fly private. They barely remove the old newspaper from prior passenger, to be naive enough to think they wipe down surfaces between flights is down right comical.

I'm sorry but I find this to be really offensive. My dd, now 17, ate only peanut butter sandwiches and crackers for a very long time. She still, to this day, takes a peanut butter sandwich to school for lunch every day...every dang day for 11 years. And there are the pb crackers for after school if she has an activity that keeps here there.
But, even then, there is no way she, or I, would whip out those pb crackers on a plane if the FA had asked for no peanut products to be eaten. Would we be arrested? Probably not, but really...is it that important???
I would imagine that any parents traveling with a child with a severe (and you notice I say 'severe') allergy to pb is going to be wiping things down around that childs seat...maybe to the point of bringing a covering with them for that seat.

I can't believe that some are so entitled so as to put their 'need' for a pb sandwich or cracker against the possible well being of someone else. Man, it just boggles my mind. Oh, and by the way...I don't much care hoiw many miles you fly every year. That isn't going to matter to the parent of the child who has a nasty reaction to your sandwich..but hey...munch away.

 

[prncess674]

I'm sorry but I find this to be really offensive. My dd, now 17, ate only peanut butter sandwiches and crackers for a very long time. She still, to this day, takes a peanut butter sandwich to school for lunch every day...every dang day for 11 years. And there are the pb crackers for after school if she has an activity that keeps here there.
But, even then, there is no way she, or I, would whip out those pb crackers on a plane if the FA had asked for no peanut products to be eaten. Would we be arrested? Probably not, but really...is it that important???
I would imagine that any parents traveling with a child with a severe (and you notice I say 'severe') allergy to pb is going to be wiping things down around that childs seat...maybe to the point of bringing a covering with them for that seat.

I can't believe that some are so entitled so as to put their 'need' for a pb sandwich or cracker against the possible well being of someone else. Man, it just boggles my mind. Oh, and by the way...I don't much care hoiw many miles you fly every year. That isn't going to matter to the parent of the child who has a nasty reaction to your sandwich..but hey...munch away.

Well let's see, I was in meetings all day, rushed to the airport and didn't have time to stop to pick up dinner. I haven't eaten since my 7am breakfast meeting and the only food in my laptop case is a travel pack of PB crackers. You bet your bippy I am going to eat them. Until peanut products are legally banned from planes I will munch away. More times lately the plane is delayed on the ground and it could easily be midnight before I make it home. Like I said if you are so sensitive to peanuts then you should avoid all public spaces and only go places where you can control your airspace bubble.

 

[Ctsplaysinrain]

I can't believe that some are so entitled so as to put their 'need' for a pb sandwich or cracker against the possible well being of someone else. Man, i


But, what happens or what does a parent decide to do when this can cause to put "their child's well being" in danger.. If you have a child that will only eat PB on a 5-6 hour flight ( more like 7-9) due to security, delays etc, you can put that child in a "dangerous health situation" as well due to a drop in blood sugar,dehydration as well.. Also, some autistic meltdowns which can be brought on by many things and could be made much worse by lack of blood sugar, can be physically dangerous to the child and OTHER people around that child...

 

[mrsksmithvt]

We just fly in January with two kids (1 & 5). We were able to bring through security applesauce cups, yogurt, and pudding cups - 2 per child. I placed them outside of the cooler we had with us in the same plastic bin that went through the x-ray machine.

Hope that helps.

 

[jsilvers]

Please quote even JUST ONE case where the "peanut police" rule was used.

Although I'm not aware of any cases in which peanuts were specifically at issue, section 46504 is frequently invoked by flight crew to deal with passengers who are behaving even slightly badly. See, for example, http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc400/civil_penalty/CaseFile/view/2003/2003-3.pdf.

Bottom line: When you're flying, the flight crew hold all the cards. If you act out of line, they can have you thrown off the plane or arrested based on the thinnest justification. You may not like it (and I'm not saying that I do either). But you're simply wrong to claim that "there is no legal standing to forbid you from being peanut products on the plane."

Per your citation they accomodate by seating someone not near the offending item, but they aren't banning an entire plane of people from consuming a product.

In fact, in certain cases they can. From DOT's guidance for service animals:

It is unlikely that the mere presence of an animal in the same cabin would, by itself, even if located at a distance from an allergic passenger, produce a severe allergic reaction rising to the level of a disability. However, if there was strong evidence that this was the case, it could be necessary to rebook one of the passengers on another flight.​

73 Fed. Reg. at 23660 (May 13, 2008).

Banning an entire plane is ridiculous. If you are in row 33 in coach and I am in row 2 in first that is no different than you sitting in the same restaurant as me eating a PBJ.

In a restaurant, someone with an allergy can step outside. In a plane (with recirculated air), they can't.

 

[jsilvers]

Like I said if you are so sensitive to peanuts then you should avoid all public spaces and only go places where you can control your airspace bubble.

Attitudes like this are precisely why laws prohibiting discrimination against passengers with disabilities were adopted.

Based on your comments, I can only presume that you would also prefer that wheelchair users stay home, since they slow the boarding process and delay flight departures.

Fortunately, the ACAA recognizes and requires that the majority should tolerate a little bit of inconvenience so that everyone has access to transportation.

 

[eeyore81]

Does anyone know if I can bring in my carryon individual servings of peanut butter (they are less than the 3oz max). I was going to put them in the quart size baggie like any other fluid.

Just to clarify, I do not plan on eating the peanut butter on the plane. Just eating it for snacks at Disney.

 

[jsilvers]

To put this in other terms, let's say you have a dog and your next door neighbor determines they are allergic to your dog. Would you like the government to come in and say sorry buddy, your neighbor is allergic to dogs so Fido is gonna have to go.

That is what as known as a straw man argument. No one is remotely suggesting that you can't have a dog on your own property. But the law not only should but does require that reasonable accommodations be made for individuals with disabilities to ensure their use of public facilities, including aircraft.

 

[prncess674]

Although I'm not aware of any cases in which peanuts were specifically at issue, section 46504 is frequently invoked by flight crew to deal with passengers who are behaving even slightly badly. See, for example, http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc400/civil_penalty/CaseFile/view/2003/2003-3.pdf.

this case has NOTHING to do with consuming contraband peanuts. You are citing something completely irrelevant

Bottom line: When you're flying, the flight crew hold all the cards. If you act out of line, they can have you thrown off the plane or arrested based on the thinnest justification. You may not like it (and I'm not saying that I do either). But you're simply wrong to claim that "there is no legal standing to forbid you from being peanut products on the plane."

I have never been rude or impeded the FA from doing their job but if I were forbidden from consuming a legal product on the plane I can guarantee there would be a big ole lawsuit brewing.

In fact, in certain cases they can. From DOT's guidance for service animals:

It is unlikely that the mere presence of an animal in the same cabin would, by itself, even if located at a distance from an allergic passenger, produce a severe allergic reaction rising to the level of a disability. However, if there was strong evidence that this was the case, it could be necessary to rebook one of the passengers on another flight.​

73 Fed. Reg. at 23660 (May 13, 2008).

In this case the passenger being inconvenienced is the passenger with the allergy, not the service animal patron. If the person with the peanut allergy has a problem, let them be inconvenienced.

In a restaurant, someone with an allergy can step outside. In a plane (with recirculated air), they can't.

The recirculated air thing is a myth. It is no worse than an office building.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/business/05cabin.html?_r=2

Cabin air, he said, is refreshed about 15 times an hour, compared with less than 12 an hour in an office building. On most full-size jets, the air is also circulated through hospital-grade HEPA filters, which are supposed to remove 99.97 percent of bacteria and the minuscule particles that carry viruses. The cabin air is also divided into separate ventilation systems covering every seven rows or so, limiting the ability of germs to travel from one end of the plane to the other.​

 

[jsilvers]

this case has NOTHING to do with consuming contraband peanuts. You are citing something completely irrelevant.

As previously stated, section 46504 provides a legal tool by which flight crew can have a passenger arrested if a passenger fails to obey their instructions (which might include an instruction not to eat peanuts). Not only relevant but proof that your claim that "there is no legal standing to forbid you from being peanut products on the plane" is wrong.

In this case the passenger being inconvenienced is the passenger with the allergy, not the service animal patron. If the person with the peanut allergy has a problem, let them be inconvenienced.

That may be your attitude, but fortunately it is not the law.

 

[prncess674]

Attitudes like this are precisely why laws prohibiting discrimination against passengers with disabilities were adopted.

Based on your comments, I can only presume that you would also prefer that wheelchair users stay home, since they slow the boarding process and delay flight departures.

Fortunately, the ACAA recognizes and requires that the majority should tolerate a little bit of inconvenience so that everyone has access to transportation.

My father is a double amputee and we don't inconvenience anyone, nor does he impose on the rights of others. He is boarded first simply because it would be dangerous to others when you bring an aisle wheelchair on board. Boarding first is a reasonable accomodation and they are normally boarding the service items (cokes, cleaning the plane, etc) so it isnt delaying the flight, so no inconvenience to you or your family. If there were no wheelchair passengers you wouldn't get to board any earlier because they would wait for the cleaning crew to exit the plane before general boarding begins. We are the last to deplane even though we are in first class usually in seats 1 A&B so once again no inconvenience to anyone else.

The peanut allergy family gets to prepare ahead and can bring on anything they want, but then I board and am told at the last moment that the lunch I packed for me and my family is now contraband to someone 30 rows away. Did the peanut allergy family pack a lunch for everyone who may have only brought peanut snacks? Are young kids supposed to suck it up for 5 or 6 hours because of your kid? I am sure all the other passengers on the plane are going to be REAL THRILLED when some unfed child wails for the next 4 hours because they are hungry.

Does anyone know if I can bring in my carryon individual servings of peanut butter (they are less than the 3oz max). I was going to put them in the quart size baggie like any other fluid.

it is perfectly accpetable. You can even eat it on the plane.

 

[jsilvers]

My father is a double amputee and we don't inconvenience anyone, nor does he impose on the rights of others. He is boarded first simply because it would be dangerous to others when you bring an aisle wheelchair on board.

Simply not true. Air carriers must offer passengers with disabilities the option of boarding first, but they are not required to do so. See, e.g., 14 C.F.R. § 382.11(a)(2). There is no danger issue; aisle wheelchairs in fact must be available for use in flight on aircraft that have more than 60 seats and an accessible lavatory. See 14 C.F.R. § 382.65.

Boarding first is a reasonable accomodation and they are normally boarding the service items (cokes, cleaning the plane, etc) so it isnt delaying the flight, so no inconvenience to you or your family.

Also not true. No passenger can be boarded onto a plane unless a minimum complement of flight attendants are on board. See 14 C.F.R. § 121.394. So if they're ready for the pre-boarding of any passengers with disabilities who choose to pre-board, they're also ready for other passengers.

But it's fascinating that you welcome an accommodation that is a benefit to your family, but don't see a need for an accommodation that would prevent individuals with a different kind of disability from suffering a severe allergy attack and/or dying in flight, all so you can enjoy your lunch.

 

[prncess674]

Simply not true. Air carriers must offer passengers with disabilities the option of boarding first, but they are not required to do so. See, e.g., 14 C.F.R. § 382.11(a)(2). There is no danger issue; aisle wheelchairs in fact must be available for use in flight on aircraft that have more than 60 seats and an accessible lavatory. See 14 C.F.R. § 382.65.



.

Wow, great thanks for the info! I always hate boarding first since we have to sit there for so long and get knocked in the face with everyone's carryon. I will be sure to show up with him and his wheelchair that must be loaded into the cargo bay last just before they are ready to close the door since they can't deny him boarding, nor anyone else who shows up on time. We board first as convenience to others, but hey if you think us boarding first somehow infringes on your rights I will gladly wait and thus hold up everyone at the end. I would love to be last on board and have time to enjoy our time off the plane in a comfortable environment. Since my Dad needs assistance from behind the passengers seated behind us will now have to be inconvenienced and stand up while he is seated. I will also be sure to stand up right as we land and demand that the aisle chair be brought on board ASAP the delaying everyone behind us. We previously followed the instructions where they told us to please line up by the door and board when told, apparently that was merely a suggestion and we should just board at our convenience.

Also not true. No passenger can be boarded onto a plane unless a minimum complement of flight attendants are on board. See 14 C.F.R. § 121.394. So if they're ready for the pre-boarding of any passengers with disabilities who choose to pre-board, they're also ready for other passengers.

just because they have the min number of FAs on board doesn't mean they are ready for the full plane full of people. They could still be clearning the plane with the FAs on board.

But it's fascinating that you welcome an accommodation that is a benefit to your family, but don't see a need for an accommodation that would prevent individuals with a different kind of disability from suffering a severe allergy attack and/or dying in flight, all so you can enjoy your lunch

the accomodations for my family do NOT infringe on your rights so there is a big difference.

 

[LadyBeBop]

I always bring a big bag of peanuts from "Five Guys". Never had a problem.

I didn't think you were supposed to take peanuts out of "Five Guys." At our Five Guys, they mention that they could affect those living in the neighborhood. Never mind that it's in a shopping center, with the closest house a half mile away.

Somebody bought up the situation of someone needing a service animal sitting next to someone with a severe animal allergy. What would happen in that situation. Don't they usually put the person with the service animal in the back of the plane? Very few people would voluntarily give up their seats in the middle or front of the plane to move to the very back.

 

[jsilvers]

I will be sure to show up with him and his wheelchair that must be loaded into the cargo bay last just before they are ready to close the door since they can't deny him boarding

You finally get it. While it may inconvenience other passengers if someone with a wheelchair shows up at the last minute, that's an inconvenience that they must tolerate. Federal law is intended to make it possible for individuals with a disability to travel without being subject to special burdens, such as requiring them to show up and board earlier than other passengers.

Likewise, if so instructed by the flight crew, you should tolerate the small inconvenience of not eating peanuts onboard, in order to prevent someone with a severe allergy from suffering a reaction and/or dying.

I will also be sure to stand up right as we land and demand that the aisle chair be brought on board ASAP the delaying everyone behind us.

Incidentally - since it's become quite obvious that while you like to pontificate, you don't know much about the actual laws and regulations that apply to travel by passengers with disabilities - DOT rules provide that if a passenger needs assistance in deplaning, it does not need to be provided until all other passengers have left the aircraft. See 73 Fed. Reg. at 27620 (May 13, 2008). Not to mention that you must keep your seat belt buckled until the aircraft has completed any ground movements. See 14 C.F.R. § 121.311(b).