Florida vs. CDC

[jrapps]

Governors and local governments been overreaching all year in my opinion. You can't be OK with it when you agree and then not when you don't.

So when Governors pass rules that force people to wear masks, it's bad but if they sign an executive order that prevents local municipalities (or businesses) from enacting their own rules or policies, that is good? It's your same analogy, you can't be OK when you agree with it, and not when you don't.

Everyone says let people decide, let people decide...so in this case, we can't let people decide? You can't let a business owner decide that they want to require a vaccine?

 

[jrapps]

Not all states require vaccinations, unfortunately. Texas has a conscientious objector clause to their vaccine requirements. You just have to get a form notarized that says you object to vaccines.

All 50 states REQUIRE vaccines. Even Texas. https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/school-requirements.aspx

There is a difference between not requiring it, and providing an exception policy.

 

[DCLMP]

So when Governors pass rules that force people to wear masks, it's bad but if they sign an executive order that prevents local municipalities (or businesses) from enacting their own rules or policies, that is good? It's your same analogy, you can't be OK when you agree with it, and not when you don't.

Everyone says let people decide, let people decide...so in this case, we can't let people decide? You can't let a business owner decide that they want to require a vaccine?

Last time I checked we were talking about an unapproved vaccine that has cause adverse reactions and death in a small percentage of people. Masks are harmless and not something you inject into your body.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Last time I checked we were talking about an unapproved vaccine that has cause adverse reactions and death in a small percentage of people. Masks are harmless and not something you inject into your body.

It is approved, it's just an emergency approval, and most likely will be full approval shortly.

 

[jrapps]

Last time I checked we were talking about an unapproved vaccine that has cause adverse reactions and death in a small percentage of people. Masks are harmless and not something you inject into your body.

And I agree..the vaccine is not "fully approved", but those executive orders and laws don't mention that. They in no way say "this order is revoked once the vaccine is fully approved by the FDA". Do you really think that once they are fully approved (which could come later this year) that the law will get revoked?

Did you mean to imply that the vaccine has caused death in a small percentage of people? I know of no cases where the vaccine killed anyone. Or did you mean that Covid caused death in a small percentage of people? Are you OK with chicken pox vaccines being mandated? About 0.000046% of Americans die from it annually.

 

[jerry557]

This right here will kill cruising in Florida. Ships will move homeport to other states or countries to start back up. If a line chooses not to require vaccines, then the CDC will choose to have too strict requirements, and people will blame the CDC but this will be the root cause. To sail in the safest possible way, ships will move elsewhere. So much for "helping Florida businesses"

As for the schools, I just don't get it. Again, if they tried to use the excuse that it's an emergency-approval, I could MAYBE understand this. But once the vaccine gets full approval, this is just about being defiant and in control. Schools have vaccine requirements for a reason. For decades, all 50 states have required that parents vaccinate their children against various diseases, including polio and measles, as a prerequisite to enrolling them in public schools. This sets such a dangerous precedent...even if the current strains of Covid aren't that serious for children, future strains could be. You can't use the argument that Covid isn't deadly for children....Did you know that all 50 states require the Chicken Pox vaccine? CHICKEN POX!!!! Before they mandated the vaccine, do you know how many people died annually of Chicken Pox? Between 100-150. ANNUALLY I remember as a kid being dragged to people's houses when they got it so that I COULD CATCH IT and thus be immune in the future.

So we now live in a world where a state can force a kid to get a chicken pox vaccine before attending school, but doesn't force a vaccine for a pandemic that has KILLED 3M people globally, and 575,000 Americans. Even if you truly believe those numbers are way inflated, how many people have died this year from Chicken Pox?

I'm done.

I think part of it that this vaccine is too new using a newer type of technology (mRNA). Long term effects have not been fully tested. Meanwhile chicken pox, MMR, Pertussis and others have been around for decades and use traditional vaccine methodology. So those vaccines are a bit more trusted.

Also, something like Polio was a very bad disease even to young people. There was more motivation to get that vaccine back in the day. Many people with COVID dont even get symptoms. The statistical odds of a healthy young person dying of COVID is very slim. So there is a risk analysis that goes on in a person's head. If they are part of a population that the virus tends to target more heavily, that person is more motivated to get the vaccine and deal with the side effects. Whereas a people who tested positive for COVID last year and had no symptoms may be thinking the vaccine might make them sicker than the virus would.

I also think the J&J being pulled, even temporarily, was a big setback. Now a lot of people who were hesitant and even more so thinking these vaccines need more research.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I also think the J&J being pulled, even temporarily, was a big setback. Now a lot of people who were hesitant and even more so thinking these vaccines need more research.

Which is odd, since the J&J vaccine is the more "traditional" type of vaccine.

 

[soniam]

Which is odd, since the J&J vaccine is the more "traditional" type of vaccine.

I actually feel more confident about the mRNA vaccines than the viral vector ones. The flu vaccine always seemed very haphazardly created (exaggeration, I know). The mRNA seems like more of a set, controlled protocol.

 

[soniam]

Anyway, we probably should leave the vaccine talk to the vaccine thread or the master puppets will threaten to shut this thread down.

 

[DCLMP]

It looks like this has turned into another vaccine thread. I guess we should stay on topic before the mods close it.

 

[jrapps]

Agree. No more vaccine talk here (except where it specifically pertains to the lawsuit)

 

[AquaDame]

Yeah, sorry... I was reading through the thread while it was still going on trying to decide what to do. The vaccine chatter did not help my opinion. While I do completely understand that this lawsuit may effect cruising restarting, which in turn would affect DCL, the board rules say no politics. At its heart, is this topic about DISNEY CRUISING or a lawsuit related to cruising? Its Florida vs. CDC, not DCL versus... well anyone. This does not belong here.