Florida vs. CDC

[DCLMP]

That's a problem, though, when many cruises stop in other countries. Other countries are requiring proof of vaccination, and cruises often (usually?) stop in other countries. How can cruises continue from Florida if Florida won't allow them to check vaccination status, but the countries the cruise will stop at requires them? That was the problem people had from the governor's order from the beginning. People were worried that cruise companies would have to leave the state and that airlines wouldn't be able to fly internationally from Florida.

Then you just don’t get off the ship in foreign ports. Many people don’t anyway.

 

[jrapps]

Then you just don’t get off the ship in foreign ports. Many people don’t anyway.

Again it doesn't work that way. If a country has a requirement for entry, all passengers on the ship must meet that requirement whether they get off the ship or not.

 

[jrapps]

It’s the local and state governments that have mandated masks and other restrictions not the cdc. The CDC makes recommendations. Some states follow them and some don’t. Hopefully this all resolved in the lawsuit and the cdc is out of the picture.

I'm going to take a step back here... I definitely get the feeling you and I do not see eye to eye on a lot of this but I think that we do have some common ground here. I will totally agree with you that the CDC shares blame in this. They are dragging their feet. They could and should have come to the table with more of a good faith attempt at coming up with a working plan and been much more timely in their responses of working with the cruise lines. That said, I do not think the lawsuit has merit and I don't think the CDC should be completely removed from this conversation. Their whole reason for existing is to protect the country from disease. Are they going too far in that? Maybe, maybe not.

From my point of view the good thing about the lawsuit is that it has the ability to get people talking again. Maybe it's exactly the fire that was needed lit under the cdc's butt to help move this thing along.

I only hope that DeSantis truly is interested in getting the cruise line moving again, even if that means he has to backpedal on his anti-vaccine requirement. If he digs his heels in, all he's proving is that he's more interested in getting his name in the news then it actually helping the cruise industry to move forward. If he would get out of his own way, we might actually make some progress here

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Then you just don’t get off the ship in foreign ports. Many people don’t anyway.

Again it doesn't work that way. If a country has a requirement for entry, all passengers on the ship must meet that requirement whether they get off the ship or not.

This....

So a cruise line may not be the one requiring the vaccination, one of the countries the cruise is calling in requires it. The governor of Florida has no say whether a ship can stop someone from boarding if they're not vaccinated if the cruise itinerary requires it. And not just the passengers, but the crew, I believe, must meet the requirements, also.

 

[jerry557]

So one has to wonder, does Desantis REALLY want cruises to start up again, or is his agenda just to pretend that he does, but make enough trouble with his executive order that the negotiations between the cruise lines and the CDC draw out, and then Desantis can point to the CDC as the "big bad government" agency is against cruising and hurting FL jobs. (stay in the news, come out looking the like the hero fighting for Floridians)...when in reality is is the governor's office that is the "big bad government" bureaucracy that is hurting FL jobs.

Well there is another wrinkle now to add pretty soon...
Today the Florida House passed a bill that would officially ban vaccine passports in the state. It would also authorize the Department of Health to fine businesses up to $5,000 per customer for asking for vaccination verification. The Senate is expected to pass it as well. It also limits the ability of local governments to enforce vaccine mandates. And schools are also not allowed to require this vaccine. Although businesses CAN continue to practice their own mitigation strategies. So they can continue to require masks and such. But they just can't require vaccines.

This law would obviously carry a lot more weight than the executive order. How this affects the airlines and cruise lines may have to be decided by the courts. But one thing for sure is that this will greatly impact Walt Disney World and the other theme parks. (although just to note that Disney and Universal never made any official indication that they would require them.)

 

[DCLMP]

This....

So a cruise line may not be the one requiring the vaccination, one of the countries the cruise is calling in requires it. The governor of Florida has no say whether a ship can stop someone from boarding if they're not vaccinated if the cruise itinerary requires it. And not just the passengers, but the crew, I believe, must meet the requirements, also.

Then you're not allowed off the ship in port.

I never thought governors could mandate businesses to shut down, limit capacity, and mandate masks, but they did. Why can't a governor mandate businesses not to mandate vaccines?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

And schools are also not allowed to require this vaccine.

Can schools require any vaccines in Florida?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Then you're not allowed off the ship in port.

No, if you don't have the required immunizations (or visas, or whatever) to visit a foreign port, you cannot even board the ship.

 

[DCLMP]

Again it doesn't work that way. If a country has a requirement for entry, all passengers on the ship must meet that requirement whether they get off the ship or not.

Can you show me proof of this law in each country.

 

[DCLMP]

No, if you don't have the required immunizations (or visas, or whatever) to visit a foreign port, you cannot even board the ship.

Is this a cruise line policy or the foreign ports policy? We don't know how the Caribbean ports will respond to this they need tourism and so does Alaska.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Is this a cruise line policy or the foreign ports policy? We don't know how the Caribbean ports will respond to this they need tourism and so does Alaska.

If a foreign port (country) that a ship will port at requires a specific vaccination, or a visa, that means, if you don't have the required vaccination/visa/whatever you are not allowed to board. When a ship ports, it's considered "in" that country, and whatever requirement that country has for people visiting apply.

For example, if you're taking a South American cruise, Brazil requires a Yellow Fever vaccination. If you don't have it, and the cruise you've booked ports in Brazil, you are not allowed to board the ship.

If you're traveling to Canada, and the cruise stops in Skagway, you're required to have a passport, because, there are excursions (land excursions) that go from Skagway (US) into Canada and back. If you don't have a passport, you don't get on the ship.

 

[DCLMP]

If a foreign port (country) that a ship will port at requires a specific vaccination, or a visa, that means, if you don't have the required vaccination/visa/whatever you are not allowed to board. When a ship ports, it's considered "in" that country, and whatever requirement that country has for people visiting apply.

For example, if you're taking a South American cruise, Brazil requires a Yellow Fever vaccination. If you don't have it, and the cruise you've booked ports in Brazil, you are not allowed to board the ship.

If you're traveling to Canada, and the cruise stops in Skagway, you're required to have a passport, because, there are excursions (land excursions) that go from Skagway (US) into Canada and back. If you don't have a passport, you don't get on the ship.

It seems pretty simple, If a port mandates vaccines they won't get cruise ships.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

It seems pretty simple, If the ports mandate vaccines they won't get cruise ships.

I doubt that would happen. There are mandated vaccinations for many countries. Why should countries that allow cruise ships give them a pass?

 

[HashberryOTG]

Whether you intend to get off the ship or not, you might HAVE to get off the ship (illness, accident, whatever). This is why all passengers are required to meet the standards set forth by the ports.

I'm concerned what we'll see is cruise ships going everywhere but Florida (and other states that won't allow them to ask for vaccines). If their destinations are requiring it and they want to get sailing, they may not feel they have a choice.

 

[DCLMP]

I doubt that would happen. There are mandated vaccinations for many countries. Why should countries that allow cruise ships give them a pass?

Were talking about the Covid Vaccine aren't we?. What countries have mandated it? Even UK does not mandate it for cruises that was Disney's decision. Were also talking about cruises out of Florida that go to the Caribbean and Mexico. Mexico has been open for tourism since last Summer with no restrictions. At this point we don't know what the Caribbean islands will do, but I do know they are dependent on tourism.

 

[jerry557]

I'm concerned what we'll see is cruise ships going everywhere but Florida (and other states that won't allow them to ask for vaccines). If their destinations are requiring it and they want to get sailing, they may not feel they have a choice.

Could be that Americans may not get to travel internationally much at for awhile. Since several countries and the EU are seriously talking about vaccine passports and our federal government is saying we aren't doing that, never mind the states. Not sure if anyone knows how this is going to work. A lot of unknowns.

I don't think our government wants us to travel anyway. The State Department just added last week 116 countries to its "Level 4" do not travel list. 80% of the world is now on that list. And this probably explains why the CDC is in no hurry to restart international cruises.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Were talking about the Covid Vaccine aren't we?. What countries have mandated it? Even UK does not mandate it for cruises that was Disney's decision. Were also talking about cruises out of Florida that go to the Caribbean and Mexico. Mexico has been open for tourism since last Summer with no restrictions. At this point we don't know what the Caribbean islands will do, but I do know they are dependent on tourism.

I understand that. I was just pointing out that, IF a country requires a vaccination (of whatever type) for a ship to visit, then it's NOT the cruise line that's requiring the shot.

If a cruise line does opt to require a vaccination to get onboard one of their ships, that's the cruise line's call. And I doubt that anyone one can tell them they can't do that.

 

[DCLMP]

[

I understand that. I was just pointing out that, IF a country requires a vaccination (of whatever type) for a ship to visit, then it's NOT the cruise line that's requiring the shot.

If a cruise line does opt to require a vaccination to get onboard one of their ships, that's the cruise line's call. And I doubt that anyone one can tell them they can't do that.

I guess will find out in the coming months. Governors and local governments been overreaching all year in my opinion. You can't be OK with it when you agree and then not when you don't.

 

[jrapps]

Today the Florida House passed a bill that would officially ban vaccine passports in the state. It would also authorize the Department of Health to fine businesses up to $5,000 per customer for asking for vaccination verification. The Senate is expected to pass it as well. It also limits the ability of local governments to enforce vaccine mandates. And schools are also not allowed to require this vaccine. Although businesses CAN continue to practice their own mitigation strategies. So they can continue to require masks and such. But they just can't require vaccines.

This right here will kill cruising in Florida. Ships will move homeport to other states or countries to start back up. If a line chooses not to require vaccines, then the CDC will choose to have too strict requirements, and people will blame the CDC but this will be the root cause. To sail in the safest possible way, ships will move elsewhere. So much for "helping Florida businesses"

As for the schools, I just don't get it. Again, if they tried to use the excuse that it's an emergency-approval, I could MAYBE understand this. But once the vaccine gets full approval, this is just about being defiant and in control. Schools have vaccine requirements for a reason. For decades, all 50 states have required that parents vaccinate their children against various diseases, including polio and measles, as a prerequisite to enrolling them in public schools. This sets such a dangerous precedent...even if the current strains of Covid aren't that serious for children, future strains could be. You can't use the argument that Covid isn't deadly for children....Did you know that all 50 states require the Chicken Pox vaccine? CHICKEN POX!!!! Before they mandated the vaccine, do you know how many people died annually of Chicken Pox? Between 100-150. ANNUALLY I remember as a kid being dragged to people's houses when they got it so that I COULD CATCH IT and thus be immune in the future.

So we now live in a world where a state can force a kid to get a chicken pox vaccine before attending school, but doesn't force a vaccine for a pandemic that has KILLED 3M people globally, and 575,000 Americans. Even if you truly believe those numbers are way inflated, how many people have died this year from Chicken Pox?

I'm done.

 

[soniam]

This right here will kill cruising in Florida. Ships will move homeport to other states or countries to start back up. If a line chooses not to require vaccines, then the CDC will choose to have too strict requirements, and people will blame the CDC but this will be the root cause. To sail in the safest possible way, ships will move elsewhere. So much for "helping Florida businesses"

As for the schools, I just don't get it. Again, if they tried to use the excuse that it's an emergency-approval, I could MAYBE understand this. But once the vaccine gets full approval, this is just about being defiant and in control. Schools have vaccine requirements for a reason. For decades, all 50 states have required that parents vaccinate their children against various diseases, including polio and measles, as a prerequisite to enrolling them in public schools. This sets such a dangerous precedent...even if the current strains of Covid aren't that serious for children, future strains could be. You can't use the argument that Covid isn't deadly for children....Did you know that all 50 states require the Chicken Pox vaccine? CHICKEN POX!!!! Before they mandated the vaccine, do you know how many people died annually of Chicken Pox? Between 100-150. ANNUALLY I remember as a kid being dragged to people's houses when they got it so that I COULD CATCH IT and thus be immune in the future.

So we now live in a world where a state can force a kid to get a chicken pox vaccine before attending school, but doesn't force a vaccine for a pandemic that has KILLED 3M people globally, and 575,000 Americans. Even if you truly believe those numbers are way inflated, how many people have died this year from Chicken Pox?

I'm done.

Not all states require vaccinations, unfortunately. Texas has a conscientious objector clause to their vaccine requirements. You just have to get a form notarized that says you object to vaccines. This went into effect somewhere between my entering college and my son entering school, so several years. It has caused severe outbreaks of several diseases that have vaccinations, endangering pregnant women, babies, those who cannot get vaccinated, or those who no longer have the immunity from the vaccine. Our son is fully vaccinated and will get the covid vaccine as soon as he is eligible, which will hopefully be soon.