Florida homeowner tax bill

[atthebeachclub]

Has anyone looked into this proposed Florida homeowner tax exemption bill they’re floating? Any idea what effect it may have on DVC dues? I haven’t looked at it at all yet; kind of curious what exactly the end goal is for the state and who they want paying for needed services.

I assume timeshare owners don’t qualify for any exemption here, so DVC owners may have higher future dues since local homeowners wouldn’t be taxed on their homes?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Has anyone looked into this proposed Florida homeowner tax exemption bill they’re floating? Any idea what effect it may have on DVC dues? I haven’t looked at it at all yet; kind of curious what exactly the end goal is for the state and who they want paying for needed services.

I assume timeshare owners don’t qualify for any exemption here, so DVC owners may have higher future dues since local homeowners wouldn’t be taxed on their homes?

I have not given it serious study, but I believe the exemption would only apply to residents that have homestead exemption. That does not include timeshares.

More to your question of will they jack-up other taxes on tourists, that I don’t know. I suppose it’s possible, but my personal thoughts are it will not impact other taxes… sales, or otherwise.

Who knows if it will even pass..??

 

[J-Dog]

I have not given it serious study, but I believe the exemption would only apply to residents that have homestead exemption. That does not include timeshares.

More to your question of will they jack-up other taxes on tourists, that I don’t know. I suppose it’s possible, but my personal thoughts are it will not impact other taxes… sales, or otherwise.

Who knows if it will even pass..??

Yes. This is correct. Any FL property tax relief bills currently being looked at would require homestead exemption.

The "end goal" for the state is clearly to try to ease tax burden on residents. I'm doubtful that will result in higher non-homestead property tax, but who knows at this point?

 

[walt34]

I'm doubtful that will result in higher non-homestead property tax,

How do you expect the gap to be closed?

 

[J-Dog]

How do you expect the gap to be closed?

How do I expect the gap to be closed? Thankfully, I'm not in politics, so I have no idea. But as far as I know, no bills to increase non-homestead apprasial value ratios have been introduced.

Even if they did increase non-homestead property taxes, I can see how timeshare owners and second-home owners would be upset (and I am a DVC owner), but I don't necessarily think it would be unfair. Hawaii is not shy about charging multiple taxes to tourists that residents don't pay, so why not Florida?

 

[walt34]

How do I expect the gap to be closed? Thankfully, I'm not in politics, so I have no idea. But as far as I know, no bills to increase non-homestead apprasial value ratios have been introduced.

I was merely wondering as you said you were doubtful it would result in higher non-homestead property tax. As I understand it, property tax is a large part of overall tax revenue in FL.

Even if they did increase non-homestead property taxes, I can see how timeshare owners and second-home owners would be upset (and I am a DVC owner), but I don't necessarily think it would be unfair. Hawaii is not shy about charging multiple taxes to tourists that residents don't pay, so why not Florida?

As far as I understand, timeshare owners are already usually paying more in property taxes (as yearly rises are limited for homestead-owners) and some taxes like School Board tax are only benefiting residents. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if property taxes for timeshare owners rise or new taxes are introduced if this bill passes.

 

[Dis_Ohana5]

As a homeowner here in FL I can tell you that property taxes help fund local law enforcement among other things. There are laws in place that prevent local governments from reducing funding to law enforcement so that money has got to come from somewhere. No one has yet to specify where and I wouldn't be surprised if it was passed anyway leaving local governments to figure it out. The state loves to pass the buck to tourists by raising sales tax and fees on everything from beach access to hotel rooms. The governor just started floating a toll road waiver for residents only and that non residents could pick up the tab instead. No idea how this will all shake out but I would expect that if any of these things pass FL will become a more expensive place to vacation. The money has to come from somewhere

 

[Moonspinner]

How do you expect the gap to be closed?

Florida has a surplus and is well-run. Governments don’t “need” half of the money they collect. There is so much waste and graft.

 

[muppets3d]

I hope that Florida does not institute a TOT for timeshares like California and Hawaii do!

 

[walt34]

Florida has a surplus and is well-run. Governments don’t “need” half of the money they collect. There is so much waste and graft.

The state runs a surplus (mostly from sales tax) but this doesn’t hold true for many of the cities and counties. And I’m not sure they all can reduce spending this much, if the sheriff’s office, fire rescue and EMS already consume half of the budget. But I guess this gets close to controversial topics territory.

 

[airjay75]

https://www.flhouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=82728

That looks like the bill that passed the FL House. Apparently, the FL Senate has to yet to release any proposal and there is a great deal of uncertainty. A few interesting things to note.

One, it would only eliminate non-school property taxes (and only for those with a homestead exemption). I don't know, but I assume school property taxes make up the bulk of property taxes like they do most places. And, FL probably has a higher proportion of second home owners who would not qualify (but who can still vote in FL if they want to).

Two, looks like it would have be put to the people for a vote, and I think it would need 60% to pass because it's a state constitutional amendment.

Three, it's phased in over 10 years, so there would be a lot of time for it to play out.

Four, it sets a floor for law enforcement funding.

So, a lot of moving pieces to this. Seems like the idea is that they want counties and municipalities to either cut expenses or find other ways to fund their operations. That would be a very local decision as to how to address this.

One other thought - with the SALT deduction coming back this year, the benefit to this for many homeowners isn't likely to be as great as it might have been. FL doesn't have a state income tax, but you can still claim a SALT deduction for sales taxes which, when added to property taxes and other state/local taxes a homeowner might be paying, they may not look at this as big of a benefit as they did when the SALT deduction was limited to 10K. That, combined with the uncertainty of where the money would come from in your local county or municipality - I sort of suspect any proposal like this will have a very difficult time making it over the 60% threshold. But, crazier things have happened in politics, so who knows.

 

[Moonspinner]

The state runs a surplus (mostly from sales tax) but this doesn’t hold true for many of the cities and counties. And I’m not sure they all can reduce spending this much, if the sheriff’s office, fire rescue and EMS already consume half of the budget. But I guess this gets close to controversial topics territory.

I think I heard desantis talking about potentially sending some money from the state to counties. Regardless, the spending has to stop at some point. Property taxes in Florida (and elsewhere) have gone up dramatically just because property values have doubled in many cases over the last five years or so. What does local government do with that sudden influx of cash? Find stuff to spend it on. Law enforcement and fire and rescue would be the last things to be cut. Those are the essentials of government.

 

[Dis_Ohana5]

Any tax increases to make up for that money would be implemented county by county not state wide. So if you live in a county with low tourism the state is not going to supplement with any surplus you would simply lose funding for anything else but law enforcement that property tax is connected to. Counties like Orange and Osceola could indeed have to implement a ToT but right now no one knows

 

[reddog21]

As a homeowner here in FL I can tell you that property taxes help fund local law enforcement among other things. There are laws in place that prevent local governments from reducing funding to law enforcement so that money has got to come from somewhere. No one has yet to specify where and I wouldn't be surprised if it was passed anyway leaving local governments to figure it out. The state loves to pass the buck to tourists by raising sales tax and fees on everything from beach access to hotel rooms. The governor just started floating a toll road waiver for residents only and that non residents could pick up the tab instead. No idea how this will all shake out but I would expect that if any of these things pass FL will become a more expensive place to vacation. The money has to come from somewhere

Your looking at making up between 15-20 billion dollars in revenue.
Here's what's on the table
government cuts(this one should worry you)
using state surplus
increase rates on non homestead properties(which you know those would be passed to the consumer..ie renter),
sales tax hike
added transaction fees on real estate sales.
Added fees on just about everything

There has been zero talk about raising tourism fees however there has been talk about redirected what is collected. Counties collect a tourism development tax that is used to promote tourism(adds, commercials...etc) and redirecting those funds to cover any gaps.


They are literally looking at everything at the moment, so it's going to get more expensive to live in Florida especially if you don't own a home.

 

[airjay75]

They are literally looking at everything at the moment, so it's going to get more expensive to live in Florida especially if you don't own a home.

I wouldn't personally be willing to draw this conclusion just yet. But, it will make a great political ad!

And, another thought that crosses my mind. A lot of people (who also vote) are renters. They might be aspiring homeowners, but they won't directly benefit so long as they're renting.

If this goes to the ballot, you'll have homeowners with homestead exemptions on the pro side and A LOT of interests on the opposition side. My suspicion is they will have a lot of money to make some great political ads to get people out to vote against this - and they'll only need 40% opposed.

My initial reaction is . . . this will have a very difficult time ever passing.

As to whether it's good tax policy? Strikes me more of a "shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic" sort of move than actual tax reform. But, I think good faith arguments can be made that property taxes on owners of their primary home is not the most efficient way for people to pay for their local government services too. Of course, these debates never become about what is the best policy, so it probably doesn't matter much practically.

 

[reddog21]

I wouldn't personally be willing to draw this conclusion just yet. But, it will make a great political ad!

And, another thought that crosses my mind. A lot of people (who also vote) are renters. They might be aspiring homeowners, but they won't directly benefit so long as they're renting.

If this goes to the ballot, you'll have homeowners with homestead exemptions on the pro side and A LOT of interests on the opposition side. My suspicion is they will have a lot of money to make some great political ads to get people out to vote against this - and they'll only need 40% opposed.

My initial reaction is . . . this will have a very difficult time ever passing.

As to whether it's good tax policy? Strikes me more of a "shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic" sort of move than actual tax reform. But, I think good faith arguments can be made that property taxes on owners of their primary home is not the most efficient way for people to pay for their local government services too. Of course, these debates never become about what is the best policy, so it probably doesn't matter much practically.

I lived in Florida for about 6 years and still have some friends that live there I keep in touch with. Specifically one that lives in southern Florida who has tried running for office(not successfully) a couple of times. He now works for a local politician down there so he kind of keeps me in the loop.

My post is just what he told me had been discussed recently. Pretty much everything is on the table none of it sounds great especially for those that don't own homes. What actually happens if anything who knows.

At the end of the day, whatever you lose on one side has to be made up on the other. In true political fashion, they’re causing more chaos than they’re solving.

 

[muppets3d]

Florida has a surplus and is well-run. Governments don’t “need” half of the money they collect. There is so much waste and graft.

The state may run a surplus but my guess is the same is not true of many municipalities that depend on property tax income to fund their essential services. The state doesn't receive property tax income so this will have no effect on the state budget, but it will affect county and municipality governments.

 

[airjay75]

In true political fashion, they’re causing more chaos than they’re solving.

A favorite past time of politicians .

I suppose if we don’t want this thread shut down, we should probably focus on the potential effects this proposal COULD have on DVC.

In my estimation, any time a county or municipality is told you can’t raise taxes by doing X, that means they will look elsewhere for that revenue if they want it. And since this proposal wouldn’t prevent any of the taxes affecting our DVC ownership or Disney travel from being raised, those would be potential new sources of revenue.

But, there are still a lot of other potential sources of revenue that could be tapped so it’s not like raising property taxes on non-homestead owners is going to necessarily be the place local governments would look. There are sales taxes, real estate transfer taxes, document recording taxes, court fees, use fees, parking and speeding tickets, etc. And, although FL and its local jurisdictions depend a lot on tourism and tourism related tax revenue, they also don’t want to do anything that would decrease tourism. So, there are some countervailing forces there that I think help balance each other out.

On a scale of 1 to 10 as to how likely I think this would adversely impact the cost of our DVC ownership, I’m probably at a 1 or 2, and closer to a 1. So many hurdles to this becoming law, and then so many other dominoes that would have to fall for it to impact our DVC ownership.