Florida Commission - Disney Policy Violates Law

[CoriM48]

We used both GAC and DAS with our son, and we are also really happy with the DAS. It's not the same as GAC, but with planning, FP+, and other tricks and coping skills we uses everywhere else in our lives, the DAS was the tipping point that made what would have otherwise been too much for our son something we could manage. I don't expect to have things made easier for my son (that's my job as his mom), so I am grateful when a place like Disney goes out of their way to offer something.

And without getting offended, an impatient child who whines or even tantrums is not the same as a person who cannot physically or emotionally wait in lines. My son becomes self-injurious or occasionally aggressive towards others when he is enclosed in what seems like a line he is trapped in and cannot cognitively comprehend that the ride is actually at the end of it. He often begins to shriek in a scary way and will lay on the floor and refuse to move out of anxiety. It's not a matter of him being impatient. He can be impatient all he wants while we wait for our return time in a place he feels safer. I completely understand while those without a loved ones without hidden needs wouldn't get it, but just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it isn't very real (and consider yourself lucky)!

 

[owlhooter]

You don't understand what 'meltdown' or 'overload' entails, then. As I've said earlier I am autistic and am fine with DAS, but 'meltdowns' are not a result of lack of instant gratification. They result from combinations of sensory input that overload the highly sensitive brains of those with autism. There are some people who could experience sensory overload from standing in a line for even a few minutes. Or even by walking through the line at all. I'm not saying they should instantly deserve a system like GAC, or that DAS can't reasonably meet the needs of most people who have these conditions...but your post was not nice.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude. I have a very sarcastic sense of humor. I also understand that sometimes people don't get the sarcasm, and the emotional issues that result from autism can compound that as well (or so I've heard/read). I was really wanting to know what the issue was with the current DAS system was, because by reading the article it appeared the complaint was that they couldn't wait at all to ride and had to have the instant gratification of riding 'Dozens of families with autistic children have sued, alleging that children with autism or other cognitive disabilities dont have the patience required to wait for a certain ride even if they are not waiting in line. Those lawsuits cite meltdown behaviors that sometimes force children and their parents to leave the parks.'. Currently getting a time and waiting somewhere else or walking around for your ride time seems like a pretty good alternative to waiting in line with everyone else, I was wondering where this issue in the quote stems from. Because if the child doesn't know they are waiting to ride a certain ride then where would the patience come in? I realize Disney can be sensory overload and I'm sure it doesn't play well with Autism and other cognitive disorders, but wouldn't riding the rides possibly lead to the same overload and meltdown type situations just from the stimulation of the ride? The quote in the article makes it seem like these individuals need instant gratification or they go into a meltdown, which I know is not the actual case, but am still trying to grasp why they would need instant access to a ride rather than doing something else while waiting for their ride time.

I'm not at all against guests with disabilities having a different system to allow them to ride, but it should also be fair to all so they don't go back to the old rent a disabled person system that was being abused.

 

[DisMommyTX]

I don't have an easy universal solution. That was my point. There is not one solution that works for everyone. Occasionally guests do need more than the "wait elsewhere" pass. Disney acknowledges this, and says accommodations can be made, but there is no formal process to follow. I think this should be clearer. There are issues with identifying visitors who truly need extra accommodations (beyond the DAS card), but it is certainly not impossible. A limited number of instant access passes (3-5 per eligible guest), maybe even for a single favorite ride (which are usually not top tier!), should have minimal impact on other guests. This would be much lower than 1% of the guests, could be factored into the computerized crowd distribution system, and never noticed by other guests.

For those who don't think it is fair for a child with special needs to receive a reasonable accommodation, go spend a couple hours sitting in the OT/PT waiting room of your local children's hospital. Every week as we take our own kids to therapy, we are reminded how unfair life is and how lucky we are. Others have it so much worse! Can you imagine spending 30 minutes in an elevator with 20 strangers from different countries, each with different smells, and speaking different languages. That might be what it is like for my kids like my son waiting in line. He is hypersensitive to stimuli like sounds, smells, and visual effects. They also often have no concept of time or personal space.

For those of you who don't understand why a parent would even try to attempt Disney, knowing how difficult it is likely to be for our kids, I promise that the moments of bliss are irreplaceable. My son loves Pluto more than anything else in the world. Pluto is included in his night-time prayers for happy dreams. He LOVES Disney, and I would do anything in the world to give him those moments of joy. There is SO much he cannot do, that these things he can are even more valuable.

I can tell you that the new Fastpass+ system is worthless for my family. I got up at midnight to make our reservations for all of our family favorites. Unfortunately, we were not able to force him into such a rigid schedule. I cannot tell you how many times we swapped top coaster reservations for things most people skip--Space Mountain for Magic Carpets of Aladdin, anyone! The DAS card allowed us to make more reasonable plans based on his mood and abilities that day--but even then we crossed off 7DMT for Tomorrowland Speedway, even though we had waited almost the full time, twice. It would be great if the pass could be signed for two rides, instead of only one at a time, but I can see how this would be an extra advantage and make the system more prone to abuse.

For suggestions to improve the current DAS card experience...

1. Walking the child over to the ride to get the pass signed is usually just setting us up for failure. For most of these kids, walking up to Dumbo, then walking away and trying to come back later is torture. Many have no concept of time (10 minutes = 2 hours = next year) and limited cognitive abilities to understand the process as a whole. Whenever possible, one parent goes over to the ride while the other waits with the child somewhere else, but this assumes that there is always an extra parent and involves lots of running back and forth between 'lands'. With all the technology, it would be great if we could get the pass signed for any ride by any attendant. They just need iPads with updated wait times.

2. Allow guests to have the pass signed, even when the posted wait time is short. If the posted wait time is 15 min or less, they would not sign the pass. We tried to run to Tomorrowland Speedway after the night parade, but still we were behind a mob. The posted wait time was 10 min, but the line was clearly 30-45 min. I waited 10 mintues for the posted wait time to change before the cast members could give him a return time. We also had issues when we sent someone ahead to have the pass signed, but the line was too short. Then by the time he arrived, it could be much longer. Then we had to get the pass signed and stall him some more.

3. Allow guests to use the FP line, even when the wait line is shorter. My son is a creature of habit. If he enters the ride through the FP line once, he does not understand going in a different way the next time. Also, the traditional lines sometimes have extra components that are more stimulating or distracting. Even when you can walk right on through the regular line, sometimes we have legitimate reasons for requesting access through the FP line.

4. The pass only works on attractions with a FastPass line. Did I mention that my son loves Pluto, a character who does not have FP at MK. Neither does Donald or Goofy. We were surprised how many times we had to wait in lines for characters and less popular attractions. It would be great to travel at less crowded times, but unfortunately we are tied to the school calendar. During our times waiting in line, we figured out easy alternates for a DAS line to some of these. Disney could too, if they tried.

Disney met with Autism advocacy groups (among others) before rolling out the new system but chose not to incorporate many of the suggestions. If you have never worked with these kids, you might not see why it makes a difference. It does. I am SO thankful for all that Disney does to accommodate our special kids, but a few little changes could dramatically improve their experience without any noticeable effect on other guests.

 

[owlhooter]

For those of you who don't understand why a parent would even try to attempt Disney, knowing how difficult it is likely to be for our kids, I promise that the moments of bliss are irreplaceable. My son loves Pluto more than anything else in the world. Pluto is included in his night-time prayers for happy dreams. He LOVES Disney, and I would do anything in the world to give him those moments of joy. There is SO much he cannot do, that these things he can are even more valuable.

I think it's great that Disney does provide accommodations so that you and your son can enjoy Disney. I don't think anyone should be denied that opportunity. On my last trip at the beginning of this month we were in the FP line for the Elsa and Anna meet and greet and a guy appeared behind us with his daughter in a wheel chair. The girl was probably late teens and looked fairly comatose, now while I don't know her condition or how much of an experience she was actually able to have from it, I think it was great that her dad was bringing her to Disney to experience what she could even if the experience isn't the same that other kids would have and I wouldn't want to deny that opportunity to anyone.

It would be great if the pass could be signed for two rides, instead of only one at a time, but I can see how this would be an extra advantage and make the system more prone to abuse.

I think I could get behind this, 2 ride times at a time doesn't seem like that big of a deal, sure it's a little more than the regular guests get, but I don't see how too many people would complain since it's still not front of the line access, and abuse I think would still be limited.

For suggestions to improve the current DAS card experience...

1. Walking the child over to the ride to get the pass signed is usually just setting us up for failure. For most of these kids, walking up to Dumbo, then walking away and trying to come back later is torture. Many have no concept of time (10 minutes = 2 hours = next year) and limited cognitive abilities to understand the process as a whole. Whenever possible, one parent goes over to the ride while the other waits with the child somewhere else, but this assumes that there is always an extra parent and involves lots of running back and forth between 'lands'. With all the technology, it would be great if we could get the pass signed for any ride by any attendant. They just need iPads with updated wait times.

This seems reasonable and goes along with my previous post about setting expectations, if you have to walk up to the ride with kid in tow to get your return time then that does set the expectation for the kid that you will be riding that ride. I can see how walking away from it without riding could be tortuous. While Disney's policy does state the disabled person doesn't have to be the one to get the pass signed if it's just the kid and 1 parent it kind of makes that hard. Hopefully Disney could improve that somehow like you suggest as in this case it's not the parent setting an unreasonable (to the child) expectation.

2. Allow guests to have the pass signed, even when the posted wait time is short. If the posted wait time is 15 min or less, they would not sign the pass. We tried to run to Tomorrowland Speedway after the night parade, but still we were behind a mob. The posted wait time was 10 min, but the line was clearly 30-45 min. I waited 10 mintues for the posted wait time to change before the cast members could give him a return time. We also had issues when we sent someone ahead to have the pass signed, but the line was too short. Then by the time he arrived, it could be much longer. Then we had to get the pass signed and stall him some more.

This to me seems like a failing of the system. I'd go a step further and say if the posted wait time is 15 min or less (usually a walk on ride) that they just let you use the FP line immediately if available or give front of line access to that attraction. If the queue is practically empty I don't think it would hurt anything, and abuse would still be limited as if people were abusing it the wait time would go up and people would start getting return times.

 

[andy1850]

From my own experience:

We went in September 2013, old rule where disabled gets everyone to the front. It felt like half the park was in scooters. Even saw parents pushing around their two kids in one wheelchair, but as soon as needed, they both energetically hopped out.


This may have been my children! Be careful to judge what you see! When my DS became to big for a stroller we had no option but to get a wheelchair....meanwhile, try explaining to a 5/6 yr old dd why her brother gets to ride and she has to walk. She does not understand that he is different yet! DS being the sweet child that he is gladly scoots over for his DS. When we get near the ride we park in stroller parking and both get out. One a little more energetically than the other. Like I said in another post.....he can walk and run...albeit not fast.....until he can't. The wheelchair makes it so he can go the whole day. This is no different than what you would do for a toddler in a stroller. Big difference is try carrying a tall 9 yr old around.

 

[andy1850]

This may have been my children! Be careful to judge what you see! When my DS became to big for a stroller we had no option but to get a wheelchair....meanwhile, try explaining to a 5/6 yr old dd why her brother gets to ride and she has to walk. She does not understand that he is different yet! DS being the sweet child that he is gladly scoots over for his DS. When we get near the ride we park in stroller parking and both get out. One a little more energetically than the other. Like I said in another post.....he can walk and run...albeit not fast.....until he can't. The wheelchair makes it so he can go the whole day. This is no different than what you would do for a toddler in a stroller. Big difference is try carrying a tall 9 yr old around.

 

[aaarcher86]

The only people that got and still get "Front of the Line access" is Make a Wish and other organizations like it. The GAC would sometimes - not always allow the guest to be let into the fast pass line. That was not FRONT of line access. I get highly annoyed reading that being misstated constantly.

It's not being misstated. If there are 300 people in a line and my family walks up, only to be placed within the first 30 people, that's the front of the line. No one thinks people were being personally escorted to the next available ride car, but to pretend that walking into the FP line in the middle of June doesn't plant the party at the front of a long line is silly.

I don't have an easy universal solution. That was my point. There is not one solution that works for everyone. Occasionally guests do need more than the "wait elsewhere" pass. Disney acknowledges this, and says accommodations can be made, but there is no formal process to follow. I think this should be clearer. There are issues with identifying visitors who truly need extra accommodations (beyond the DAS card), but it is certainly not impossible. A limited number of instant access passes (3-5 per eligible guest), maybe even for a single favorite ride (which are usually not top tier!), should have minimal impact on other guests. This would be much lower than 1% of the guests, could be factored into the computerized crowd distribution system, and never noticed by other guests.

For those who don't think it is fair for a child with special needs to receive a reasonable accommodation, go spend a couple hours sitting in the OT/PT waiting room of your local children's hospital. Every week as we take our own kids to therapy, we are reminded how unfair life is and how lucky we are. Others have it so much worse! Can you imagine spending 30 minutes in an elevator with 20 strangers from different countries, each with different smells, and speaking different languages. That might be what it is like for my kids like my son waiting in line. He is hypersensitive to stimuli like sounds, smells, and visual effects. They also often have no concept of time or personal space.

For those of you who don't understand why a parent would even try to attempt Disney, knowing how difficult it is likely to be for our kids, I promise that the moments of bliss are irreplaceable. My son loves Pluto more than anything else in the world. Pluto is included in his night-time prayers for happy dreams. He LOVES Disney, and I would do anything in the world to give him those moments of joy. There is SO much he cannot do, that these things he can are even more valuable.

I can tell you that the new Fastpass+ system is worthless for my family. I got up at midnight to make our reservations for all of our family favorites. Unfortunately, we were not able to force him into such a rigid schedule. I cannot tell you how many times we swapped top coaster reservations for things most people skip--Space Mountain for Magic Carpets of Aladdin, anyone! The DAS card allowed us to make more reasonable plans based on his mood and abilities that day--but even then we crossed off 7DMT for Tomorrowland Speedway, even though we had waited almost the full time, twice. It would be great if the pass could be signed for two rides, instead of only one at a time, but I can see how this would be an extra advantage and make the system more prone to abuse.

For suggestions to improve the current DAS card experience...

1. Walking the child over to the ride to get the pass signed is usually just setting us up for failure. For most of these kids, walking up to Dumbo, then walking away and trying to come back later is torture. Many have no concept of time (10 minutes = 2 hours = next year) and limited cognitive abilities to understand the process as a whole. Whenever possible, one parent goes over to the ride while the other waits with the child somewhere else, but this assumes that there is always an extra parent and involves lots of running back and forth between 'lands'. With all the technology, it would be great if we could get the pass signed for any ride by any attendant. They just need iPads with updated wait times.

2. Allow guests to have the pass signed, even when the posted wait time is short. If the posted wait time is 15 min or less, they would not sign the pass. We tried to run to Tomorrowland Speedway after the night parade, but still we were behind a mob. The posted wait time was 10 min, but the line was clearly 30-45 min. I waited 10 mintues for the posted wait time to change before the cast members could give him a return time. We also had issues when we sent someone ahead to have the pass signed, but the line was too short. Then by the time he arrived, it could be much longer. Then we had to get the pass signed and stall him some more.

3. Allow guests to use the FP line, even when the wait line is shorter. My son is a creature of habit. If he enters the ride through the FP line once, he does not understand going in a different way the next time. Also, the traditional lines sometimes have extra components that are more stimulating or distracting. Even when you can walk right on through the regular line, sometimes we have legitimate reasons for requesting access through the FP line.

4. The pass only works on attractions with a FastPass line. Did I mention that my son loves Pluto, a character who does not have FP at MK. Neither does Donald or Goofy. We were surprised how many times we had to wait in lines for characters and less popular attractions. It would be great to travel at less crowded times, but unfortunately we are tied to the school calendar. During our times waiting in line, we figured out easy alternates for a DAS line to some of these. Disney could too, if they tried.

Disney met with Autism advocacy groups (among others) before rolling out the new system but chose not to incorporate many of the suggestions. If you have never worked with these kids, you might not see why it makes a difference. It does. I am SO thankful for all that Disney does to accommodate our special kids, but a few little changes could dramatically improve their experience without any noticeable effect on other guests.

1) I'd be in favor of them making MDE available for DAS return times away from the ride. I don't know the cost involved or what it would take to run it, and at least right now, MDE is such a disaster I don't want it until it's fixed. I see the argument of single parents a lot, and while I feel for them, it's their responsibility to figure this all out. The DAS solves the problem for the disabled party. It doesn't incorporate everyone's life decisions or obstacles that don't pertain to that disability, which includes being a single parent. Hopefully, that will eventually work itself out if/when it becomes electronic.

2) never experienced them not signing the card. They were going to let us on right away when the Star Wars line was around 10 minutes, but since we had a FP for the sing a long he just out the time it currently was so we could go up at any time. I'd agree if the line is short enough for immediate access they should just out the current time so you can come back whenever.

3) I'd agree with that, but I've not experienced differently.

4) the GAC didn't work for non FP character meets, so this is the same. In my experience, these are often outside. We can walk around or keep our ASD daughter busy while someone else waits in line, and typically, people don't have a problem with that since it doesn't add additional wait time for them. But, I also feel this is the parents responsibility. They might not be available as a FP in MK but they are available as a FP in other parks, or during character meals. In some of these situations, I think the responsibility is being pushed on Disney when it shouldn't be. This should be a combination of personal responsibility along with Disney. I understand only being able to travel during busy times, but I don't see why Disney should be responsible for accommodations for that. All they can do is make things available for guests, but if a guest chooses for whatever reason not to utilize that, that's the guests choice.

If the autism groups were offering ideas that weren't feasible or reasonable, I wouldn't expect Disney to use them. One of the autism group leaders refused to even try, listen, or accept any kind of change to the GAC when called by a Disney rep. I believe the whole conversation was in a transcript. She wasn't helpful in suggesting anything, just refusing to believe it would work.

Someone else mentioned Disney offering additional FP for severely disabled guests. How does Disney choose who qualifies and who doesn't? Sounds like a dangerously slippery slope. Everyone would claim their kid is 'disabled enough' to deserve this and demand it. That's the problem with adding extras for people. The site says they'll work with guests for additional accommodations, but that doesn't mean FP. A stroller as a wheelchair tag, giving a starter time at GR, etc are all additional tools and accommodations.

I think the bottom line is that there will always be places out of the question for the disabled regardless of accommodations. It's just the way it goes. There are several places and things I can't do with my oldest because of her issues, even with the help they offer. But these business aren't required to do any and everything I need to make it work. I'm really. It even worried about I'd lawsuit. If anyone has read the transcripts of the complaints they're completely ridiculous.

 

[disneykeim]

can someone tell me what disney does for disabled guests? and what the rules are and what not?

 

[owlhooter]

can someone tell me what disney does for disabled guests? and what the rules are and what not?

http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/disney-parks-disability-access-service-card-fact-sheet/

 

[HockeyIsLife]

This is crazy. I thought the new DAS was great. My son is moderately autistic and needs a variety of accommodations but we don't mind waiting. Just Id prefer to do it elsewhere. He talks non-stop and paces not aware of personal space. It's as much for us as it is for those all around us in lines . IMO the DAS does allow you to enjoy the park as intended by others. All other guests have to wait, so it makes no difference if we have to wait the approx same wait time. I'm just happy to not be make all the guests around me crazy with my talky walky son

I love your attitude. Both of my girls have cognitive delays and one of my girls has PTSD, which has translated into issues with waiting for anything and it causing anxiety (like vomiting she is so anxious). We have not been to WDW since the changes, and I am worried about it changing the trip for us. We have needed to be able to be "spontaneous" and with the need to schedule the fast passes (didn't have to do that last time) I am slightly worried. But Disney is important to us as a family, so we are holding our breath and taking the leap. I hope that the new system suits us, it sounds like Disney has thought about this and tried to come up with a solution that cares for the children who need this accommodation, and preventing as much abuse as possible.

And for the record, families that are facing the realities of disability try to avoid the stims that will trigger our kids. We don't bring the kids places like Walmart on Black Friday. The crowds are rowdy and too overwhelming for me, never mind my kids. But you want the kids to experience the magic of a family vacation at Disney. It is nice when the accommodations can be made.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

We used both GAC and DAS with our son, and we are also really happy with the DAS. It's not the same as GAC, but with planning, FP+, and other tricks and coping skills we uses everywhere else in our lives, the DAS was the tipping point that made what would have otherwise been too much for our son something we could manage. I don't expect to have things made easier for my son (that's my job as his mom), so I am grateful when a place like Disney goes out of their way to offer something.

And without getting offended, an impatient child who whines or even tantrums is not the same as a person who cannot physically or emotionally wait in lines. My son becomes self-injurious or occasionally aggressive towards others when he is enclosed in what seems like a line he is trapped in and cannot cognitively comprehend that the ride is actually at the end of it. He often begins to shriek in a scary way and will lay on the floor and refuse to move out of anxiety. It's not a matter of him being impatient. He can be impatient all he wants while we wait for our return time in a place he feels safer. I completely understand while those without a loved ones without hidden needs wouldn't get it, but just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it isn't very real (and consider yourself lucky)!

To all of those with special needs family members, my prayers are with you. I cannot even imagine what you face, and do so willingly for love. But I just want to say to Cori and the many others that use DAC, in this surprisingly positive thread, how much I appreciate your attitudes, your willingness to be fair and wait and your willingness to accept reasonable accommodation. After so many that game systems or think they are owed everything and frustrate us all, this thread has generally been a breath of fresh air. Yes, some things could be tweaked, but DAS is pretty good it seems. Again, I want to thank you for your attitudes! Disney's system will never work for everyone, that is not possible, but I hope it works for all of you. And I pray you'll have awesome visits to Disney. You deserve it.