Flags at half mast today at the World

[jayandstacey]

Steve Jobs was the greatest "thinker" of our generation. Historians thousands of years from now will point to his concepts as important as the invention of the wheel in terms of changing society and propelling technology leaps and bounds forward.

That's why it's in Spaceship Earth!!!

You know, I haven't thought of Jobs as the greatest thinker of the generation...but I'm not sure I can argue for someone else, certainly not in technology.

Now, I wouldn't put his impact in the same class as the wheel. But then again, "wheels" (aka round things) were lying around and just needed to be applied. The ways Jobs and Apple have made interaction with technology easier and more applicable...those weren't just lying around but had the same mlutiplier effect, making it much easier to leverage the powers in those little boxes.

Obviously, many, many people had their hands in this and will continue to do so. But I dare say Jobs represents them, if not being the best of them. He understood the power in simplicity, the strength of less.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

I just wonder why he couldn't make iTunes better. Takes forever to open, alwasy pushing a "latest version" on you, a new user agreement practically every day...ugh

 

[BlueChariot]

Oh and here we have it, the argument that one is more patriotic than another.

I respect my flag. But I don't worship it as my god. And I don't view the flag as having the powers of a god. There IS a difference. You don't have to like the fact that is IS lawful and within the Flag Code to fly the flag at half staff for someone. BUT respect the fact people ARE within the law and the government takes absolutely no issue with it. Only "more patriotic" people do, I suppose.

As far me saying "so much for honoring & respecting the deceased"...I meant it in regards to the fact that people can't even let go of their "how dare Disney!" arguments for just ONE THREAD. I mean really...someone died, Disney chose to honor the person, and all this has become is some ridiculous debate.

By the way, you never did answer about the flags being lowered for 9/11...

Thank you for misreading my post. Never did I say the flag has the powers of "god" (or any other diety), nor did I say that I worship the flag as a god (because I don't).

And I certainly didn't say I was more patriotic than anyone else on this board. I just said I am too much of a patriot (two very different statements).

I also did not say that there are not certain times that lowering of a flag is appropriate. I stated an opinion that I did not think the death of Steve Jobs was an appropriate event for the lowering of the American Flag.

As a PP stated, I am exercising my right to free speech, just as you. I don't agree with your opinion, and you don't agree with mine. Fine...

And to address another previous post, which stated "So I'm all for the discourse and opinions and all that, on both sides. Just don't mess with the constitution by attempting to enact laws about flag burning or wearing the colors on my jacket or flying a flag at half-mast."

I am not attempting to enact any law. As a matter of fact, the U.S. Supreme Court has already decided that flag burning is completely lawful and within a person's right as protected free speech. That doesn't mean I can't state my distaste for the practice (again, see the First Amendment).

 

[nytimez]

Thank you for misreading my post. Never did I say the flag has the powers of "god" (or any other diety), nor did I say that I worship the flag as a god (because I don't).

And I certainly didn't say I was more patriotic than anyone else on this board. I just said I am too much of a patriot (two very different statements).

I'm too much of a patriot to agree with anything you said.

 

[mking624]

Thank you for misreading my post. Never did I say the flag has the powers of "god" (or any other diety), nor did I say that I worship the flag as a god (because I don't).

And I certainly didn't say I was more patriotic than anyone else on this board. I just said I am too much of a patriot (two very different statements).

I also did not say that there are not certain times that lowering of a flag is appropriate. I stated an opinion that I did not think the death of Steve Jobs was an appropriate event for the lowering of the American Flag.

As a PP stated, I am exercising my right to free speech, just as you. I don't agree with your opinion, and you don't agree with mine. Fine...

And to address another previous post, which stated "So I'm all for the discourse and opinions and all that, on both sides. Just don't mess with the constitution by attempting to enact laws about flag burning or wearing the colors on my jacket or flying a flag at half-mast."

I am not attempting to enact any law. As a matter of fact, the U.S. Supreme Court has already decided that flag burning is completely lawful and within a person's right as protected free speech. That doesn't mean I can't state my distaste for the practice (again, see the First Amendment).

Thank you for misreading mine. I never said you believed it had the powers of a god or that you worshiped the flag as one. I said I didn't. Two very different statements.
But I did say in a previous post:

You'd think by some of the responses here that the American flag has somehow achieved deity status with amazing powers that should never dare be bestowed on the lowly ones...unless, of course, certain DISers approve.

To which you responded:

Um, and yes, to some people the American flag is an amazing power...

Anyway...

And you did give the implication that you are somehow more patriotic than the rest of us who respect this decision. The fact you basically bash the decision and then say "I'm too much of a patriot" strongly implies that anyone who is for it is not patriotic enough or at least not as much as you. I'm not the only one who saw that. I personally find it ridiculous to tie in patriotism to the lowering of a flag to half staff. But I do wonder when you find it appropriate to lower a flag.

 

[ilovemk76]

Not sure if this has been posted already, as we were busy arriving, unpacking, then attending MNSSHP. But noticed when we pulled into CR that the 4 American flags our front were at half mast, as well as the one at the MK train station. The gate guard confirmed that were flying in honor of Steve Jobs.

He owned 4.1 billion dollars of Disney stock. That is more than he owned of Apple stock.

 

[Dominus]

While I think Uncle Walt would have appreciated Jobs ingenuity and intelligence, I don't think he would appreciated Jobs denying that he was the father of a child for many years. If you've seen the Walt biography "Walt: A Man and His Dream", you know that family was the most important thing to him.

I respect Jobs and his intelligence and his ingenuity, but I do not respect him as a man. I'm sorry that he died and that medicine could not save him. I hope his children are able to find comfort and that they have good memories of him to sustain them through the next, difficult part of their lives.

Exactly! Let's also not forget that anything Jobs could have made in China...he did have made in China. This guy was no great American job creator. He also cut Apples philanthropic spending when he came back into power. Sure it was to make the company more profitable. But couldn't he have cut executive salaries, or any number of other things? Golf tournaments perhaps? I think we, as a nation, should be very, very selective who we choose to idolize.

 

[Jey12]

OK just so I'm caught up here....

Disney lowered the American flag due to their respect and personal loss of someone. Steve Jobs. The law states if I want to lower my personal American flag because my guinea pig died, that's my right as well. Some people are going to agree it's my right and go on with their day, others are going to agree it's my right but not like what i'm doing because they are to much of a patriot. Yet they will then say they did not say they were more of a patriot than myself, even though a 2nd grader could see it was inferred.

Next Steve Jobs was an amazing man and it's a shame he wasted his time working on technology instead of curing cancer, depleting the ozone hole and fixing global warming. Nevermind the technology he helped bring forward could very well help with these things, connecting the two is obviously nonsense. Although I have to say I fully believe my iphone is an evil device sent straight from the depths of hell. Thankfully being the patriot I am I realize I had the choice to buy this phone or be tormented by another brand. And somehow we've again come full circle back to Frances S. Key and his poem about the American flag. Turned into a great patriotic song that is allowed to be butchered in front of millions every weekend, several times.

I'm still not really sure where Hitler came into the discussion or where he belongs, but the main point I got was why don't we focus on the good things he did? Really? Have we learned nothing from Hank Jr.? You just don't use Hitler to make any comparison unless....I've got nothing. You just don't do it.

Anything else I've missed? Anything else that can be dragged into a thread that involved Steve Jobs, Disney and the American flag? I see how the 3 are related. Where Hitler, global warming, patriotism and the degree of which one is or isn't, cancer, my iphone, and now Hank Jr. (I'm sorry) all fits into Disney, Steve Jobs and the American flag is where I start to become lost.

My personal choice is I would not lower the flag for Steve Jobs, but I mean MY personal flag. That is just my opinion. Disney is allowed to have their opinion as well and I respect that and their reasons.

 

[jayandstacey]

And to address another previous post, which stated "So I'm all for the discourse and opinions and all that, on both sides. Just don't mess with the constitution by attempting to enact laws about flag burning or wearing the colors on my jacket or flying a flag at half-mast."

I am not attempting to enact any law. As a matter of fact, the U.S. Supreme Court has already decided that flag burning is completely lawful and within a person's right as protected free speech. That doesn't mean I can't state my distaste for the practice (again, see the First Amendment).

As the one who posted that quote...I find the flag lower to be tasteful, you find it distasteful. Thank goodness those opinions can co-exist.

I've never heard a political discussion while IN Disney. Has anyone?

 

[Planogirl]

I personally believe that this is only Disney's business and no one else's. Our society allows businesses and individuals to make choices about such things and all of the complaining and whining doesn't change that. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[jayandstacey]

Exactly! Let's also not forget that anything Jobs could have made in China...he did have made in China. This guy was no great American job creator.

Don't recall anyone saying he was. He (like virtually every other such large technology company) has things built in China because no one's willing to build an electronics manufacturing plant in the US, because US workers aren't willing to work for $1 an hour.

I'd rather live in the country that invents, uses and decides the fate of the iStuff than the country that makes it the iStuff at the whim of Apple. I've never understood the passion with which people want the lowest-end jobs to be here in the US.

 

[Kona65]

The flags flying at half staff had very little to do with Steve Jobs genius, or that he was a large share holder, and had everything to do with him being on the board of directors of Disney.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

PATRIOTISM, n.
Combustible rubbish ready to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.

In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.

Source: Devil's Dictionary

 

[nytimez]

PATRIOTISM, n.
Combustible rubbish ready to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.

In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.

Source: Devil's Dictionary

Nice touch.

HL Mencken added this to the definition years later: "But there is something even worse: it is the first, last, and middle range of fools."

 

[Dominus]

Don't recall anyone saying he was. He (like virtually every other such large technology company) has things built in China because no one's willing to build an electronics manufacturing plant in the US, because US workers aren't willing to work for $1 an hour.

I'd rather live in the country that invents, uses and decides the fate of the iStuff than the country that makes it the iStuff at the whim of Apple. I've never understood the passion with which people want the lowest-end jobs to be here in the US.

We shouldn't allow companies to move over seas in order to pay $1 a day labor. Manufacturing jobs used to be (and can be again) good middle-class jobs. But not as long as we think it's ok for companies to "Job" the american workers because we want a fair wage. Eventually all the inventing will also be done over seas to avoid pesky lawsuits over intellectual property and copyrights. Maybe then you will get it. No one is begging for the losest end jobs, people are begging for the return of American industrial might.

 

[AmberHeartsDisney]

I can not believe people are fighting over someone that died. That's pretty low......

If you didn't like him then don't buy his products.

 

[DaisyMaisie]

The flags flying at half staff had very little to do with Steve Jobs genius, or that he was a large share holder, and had everything to do with him being on the board of directors of Disney.

I would imagine members of the board of directors have died before, and someone would have mentioned if the flags had been lowered for them. Unless their last name was Disney and their first name was Roy, I kind of doubt it.

 

[cmurray234]

I'm amazed at what people can turn into an argument on here.

Let's clear a few things up, shall we?

1. All of those "laws" about who may or may not "order" a flag to be lowered are referring to government offices/municipal buildings. Disney is PRIVATE PROPERTY. I own my house. If I wanted, I could take an American flag, roll it in mud, let my dogs chew on it and shred it for festive 4th of July confetti...and not be breaking the law. That's what freedom is.

side note - I don't have a flag, dogs or even mud (it's been sunny this week). I'm simply making a point that flag laws do not apply at ALL to the private sector.

2. Steve Jobs was an incredible innovator, a major Disney shareholder and stood behind Pixar when it was hemorrhaging money. Why shouldn't they honor his passing?

3. Steve Jobs was micro-managing, nit-picker who admitted that he wasn't a good father. The things that made him a brilliant capitalist also made him incredibly off-putting personally. So what? Rumor has it that Thomas Jefferson was a jerk too. Should we kick him off the nickel because he irritated people? Come now, let's not be petty.

4. I saw somebody burn a flag once in Washington DC on Memorial Day. Made me cry. But I stand behind the right to do so, even while I abhor the sentiment. There is simply no argument about flying a flag at half staff because of the passing of an important cultural figure.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

PATRIOTISM, n.
Combustible rubbish ready to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.

In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.

Source: Devil's Dictionary

General Hummel: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

John Mason: "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious," according to Oscar Wilde.
[Hummel strikes him, and he falls to his knees]

John Mason: Thank you for making my point.

 

[Sweet Melissa]

I've never heard a political discussion while IN Disney. Has anyone?

Since you mention it, I have, several times, in the lobby of the Hall of Presidents attraction. Something about that portrait room seems to inspire all kinds of colorful commentary. More than once such discussions have been grating enough that I've walked away instead of waiting for the show.