Flag of convenience?

[Remember_the_magic]

I found this little fact on a web site i was wondering if thats true?
and if it is can someone explane why it's only flown while in port?

The red flag with a white Mickey head and ears is probably the "flag of convenience", which is a flag flown on board the ship insted of a country's flag

 

[mmouse37]

I found this little fact on a web site i was wondering if thats true?
and if it is can someone explane why it's only flown while in port?

The red flag with a white Mickey head and ears is probably the "flag of convenience", which is a flag flown on board the ship insted of a country's flag

I thought the Mickey flag was flown in port BUT ALSO the country's flag of the port being visited.

 

[Bell30012]

I can only venture two guesses why it is only flown in port... Maritime law prohibits the flying of any "false flag," which would be any flag other than the country of registration of the ship. This law dates back to the pirate days.

At one time the United States of America actually had a presidential yacht (three over history). On this ship a blue flag with the presidential seal was flown but only within US territorial waters. Whenever the ship went into international waters an American flag replaced the presidential seal flag. (USS Mayflower, Sequoia and the Potomac)

Further no red flag is ever flown on a vessel at sea. It is the universal warning to other ships of pirates or deadly danger. These would be the reasons that I would guess. The Disney Wonder & Magic are both flagged out of the Bahamas.

Not all pirates flew the Jolly Roger, and in fact, the first ocean-going thieves often used red flags, which coincidentally is reportedly the origin of the red flag as a warning. Pirate ships would approach others under false flags, and at the last second, run the red one up the mast before boarding the other ship and killing the crew. The black flag, and more specifically a black pirate flag with various designs, did not make its appearance until sometime towards the end of the 17th century.

 

[Capt_BJ]

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience

Flag of convenience in marine law refers to a ship being registered in a country with favorable maritime laws and not in the country where the company actually exisits. "technically" DCL is flying the Bahamian Flag as a flag of conv...the ship is registered in the Bahamas while DCL ain't exactly a Bahamian company.....

This is why so many ships fly the flags of: Panama, Honduras, Bahamas, Liberia .... and very few the Stars and Stripes.....

The red Mickey flag is the company flag I suspect.

 

[mmouse37]

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience

Flag of convenience in marine law refers to a ship being registered in a country with favorable maritime laws and not in the country where the company actually exisits. "technically" DCL is flying the Bahamian Flag as a flag of conv...the ship is registered in the Bahamas while DCL ain't exactly a Bahamian company.....

This is why so many ships fly the flags of: Panama, Honduras, Bahamas, Liberia .... and very few the Stars and Stripes.....

The red Mickey flag is the company flag I suspect.

That is what I also suspected "flag of convenience" meant but does DCL also fly the flag of the country it is visiting (while in port) or did I imagine that!! LOL!!!

I know it sails under the Bahamian flag.

 

[disneyfaninaz]

Yes, when in port, the DCL Ships fly the flag of that country. When we were on the Western, we saw the US flag, the Grand Cayman flag and the Mexican flag being flown while in port. If I recall, the Bahamian flag was always flown as well.

I will have to make an effort to look at the flags while at sea to see which one DCL flies. Interesting information about the DCL flag.

 

[mmouse37]

Thank you for posting that....it confirmed what I thought about them flying the flag of the country they visited.

I also found this online....though it is from Australia I think it pertains to ships around the world.

http://www.portofmelbourne.com/education/students/whatship.asp

 

[disneyfaninaz]

Here are the flags while docked in Key West.

Here are the flags while docked in Cozumel.

I didn't get a good one of Grand Cayman, I'll have to try and get it on our next trip.

 

[stephent2008]

Legaly the ship must fly the flag of the home port - DCL does this from the aft. When in Port they fly the DCL flag from the bow - as this is not a recognised flag (and because it is flown from the bow), it must be lowered whilst sailing. The DCL shipes often fly the US flag along side a DCL flag from the forward mast whilst the ship is in port - again, these are lowered whilst sailing.

The reason why ships are mainly ported outwith the US is due to costs. The US is the most costly place to port a ship. I also believe that if you port a ship in the US you must have an all american crew (I may be wrong) - as per NCL's American ships. An all american crew may sound good, but on the whole it is more cosly, customer service is poor (as per NCL) and it is very difficult to get appropriatly qualified crew and officers.

Plus, having DCL sailing under the Bahimian flag aids in the lease of Castaway.

 

[beachblanket]

What hasn't been completely stated here is the registration of the DCL ships in the Bahamas is solely to get around strict American maritime regulations. In particular, the Bahamas registration means DCL doesn't have to comply with American employment laws.

To be fair, this isn't just a DCL thing. All major cruise lines do this. The only only exception is NCL America, a one-ship subsidiary of NCL that sails Hawaii. It's American-registered ship (the Pride of America, shown proudly flying the Stars and Stripes below) employs a primarily American crew.

 

[stephent2008]

DCL doesn't have to comply with American employment laws.

This is where it gets awkward - in terms of DCL (this is the only cruisline I have worked with, and therefore know) all crew are flown in to FL on C1D visas with Disney Cruise Line, Celebration stated as the guarintee. I have heard of people winning damages from DCL in US courts for unfair dismissal... so although the above statement is true, it is not absolute.

In terms of other regulations, as DCL uses an american port it does have to satisfy coast guard/ usph etc along with Bahamian regulations (as well as Loyds of London). I think sailing a ship is a tangled mess of regulation....

 

[Capt_BJ]

when in a country other than its flag state many vessels will fly a 'courtesy flag' in port

I did.....

It is not a requirement but a nice thing to do.

 

[beachblanket]

Given it's not an American flagged ship, Disney's use of the Stars and Bars while legal (as a courtesy while in a U.S. port) is somewhat misleading - implying the ship is "American" when it is technically not. I also "love" how the American flag is much smaller than the DCL fleet insignia one (making the former almost seem like an afterthought). I highly doubt that is part of any mandated protocol.

 

[Capt_BJ]

When I flew the Mexican Flag from a US warship was I trying to pass us off as Mexican?

This is a nautical tradition. I give 'em points for preserving nautical tradition. Just like when at sea the Captain goes on the system at noon and passes the position and weather and they sound the whistle.

On Coast Guard cutters we still announce the approach of noon to the Captain, report the position and other relevant facts and request permission to strike 8 bells....then actually do so on the ship's bell and test the ship's alarms and whistle.

this if reference to the days before chronometers and building the ships day around "local apparent noon" when the sun reaches it's highest point of the day and one can easily calculate latitude. The Master would be alerted that 'the hour of noon is approaching' so he would not miss this significant navigational event. The officers would begin to watch the rise of the sun with their sextants and when they saw it begin to fall they would mark the height and tell the quartermaster "make it noon" and begin another ship day.

tradition......

 

[Remember_the_magic]

So just to clarify for me... Can the Disney ship fly any flag while not in port? or are all flags banned while at sea?
Sorry just wondering

 

[Bell30012]

Now keep in mind that I was an Army officer not Navy or Coast Guard but it is my understanding that while underway, they may not fly any other flag other than the flag of the country they are legally registered out of. I think Captain BJ probably has the expertise on this one. I believe that the flying of any other flag while at sea is termed a "false flag."

 

[jenn&nelsonrego]

Given it's not an American flagged ship, Disney's use of the Stars and Bars while legal (as a courtesy while in a U.S. port) is somewhat misleading - implying the ship is "American" when it is technically not. I also "love" how the American flag is much smaller than the DCL fleet insignia one (making the former almost seem like an afterthought). I highly doubt that is part of any mandated protocol.

It does not seem like an afterthought to me. It is still flown higher than the other flag.

 

[jenn&nelsonrego]

Given it's not an American flagged ship, Disney's use of the Stars and Bars while legal (as a courtesy while in a U.S. port) is somewhat misleading - implying the ship is "American" when it is technically not. I also "love" how the American flag is much smaller than the DCL fleet insignia one (making the former almost seem like an afterthought). I highly doubt that is part of any mandated protocol.

It does not seem like an afterthought to me. It is still flown higher than the other flag.

 

[beachblanket]

It gets even better - while DCL gives the American flag "convenience" postage stamp treatment, they can't make the Bahamian flag big enough!

 

[beachblanket]

It does not seem like an afterthought to me. It is still flown higher than the other flag.

From the American Legion website section on American Flag Display Policy:

"When flown with flags of states, communities, societies or organizations, the flag of the United States is always placed in the position of honor:

• No other flag ever should be placed above it.
• The other flags may be smaller but none may be larger.
• The flag of the United States is always the first flag raised and the last to be lowered.

I work for a Fortune 100 company and outside our headquarters we fly both an American flag and a corporate logo flag on the same pole. The American flag is not just at the top but is also larger than the corporate flag, not smaller. Ergo, we are in compliance with display code.

Trust me, if we did what DCL did in that picture, in thirty seconds the local American Legion would be on the phone with the Chairman's office.

In fact, perhaps that DCL photo should be forwarded to the national American Legion office in Washington...