First Florida cruise approved by CDC in June!

[kathi]

I'm booked on the Fantasy Sept. 18-25 and I am HOLDING MY BREATH that we sail! We are all vaccinated, but it's just a wait game to see what DCL does! Hoping Hoping Hoping!

We are booked on the 25th - sure hope we both get to sail!

 

[Lynes88]

For now, its more of a wait and see for what they come up with... no need to tell me to not go because I raised concerns/questions about the vaccine verification process. We are all sort of in the same "boat" here (pun intended)... and we are really hoping we sail Sept. 4th.

 

[Sleepyluke]

No matter if required or not, most states are not going to give over information to private businesses. They don't for the airlines now, and three are millions of folks flying right now spreading whatever. When does it stop, Joe Blow Plumber wants to know if I have been vaccinated? He has a right if they give it to Disney. I think at best, DCL asks you as the passenger to provide the proof of vaccine, and take you at your word that you have been. It is like the pre-cruise health questionnaire. Yes they ask if you have had stomach issues within the last 3 days, but even on these boards we read about people lying on them and DCL is fully aware that it is happening. We also forget that there are lot of international passengers that have different requirements/proof/vaccines. How will they handle those? Will an outbreak on a ship happen, yes, will it get blown up like a year ago, I don't think so, it is too common now. I hope.....

 

[cvjw]

I'm booked on the Fantasy Sept. 18-25 and I am HOLDING MY BREATH that we sail! We are all vaccinated, but it's just a wait game to see what DCL does! Hoping Hoping Hoping!

On this cruise too! Getting cautiously optimistic that we sail! We are also vaccinated and ready to go

 

[DCLMP]

If you were caught lying about vaccination status, I would expect the civil damages to the cruise line would be way more than the criminal ones (assuming you would get caught).

I don't think you are understanding. They are not allowed to ask. It's a 5k fine.

 

[Sykes]

I don't think you are understanding. They are not allowed to ask. It's a 5k fine.

They can ask. They could make you sign an affidavit saying that you're vaccinated as a condition of boarding. Assuming the law is even constitutional, the only thing that they're not allowed to do is ask for a document that proves vaccination as a condition of providing service. But in that scenario, if they had reason to believe that you lied on the affidavit ... for example, you got sick on the cruise and forced them to end it early ... they are well within their rights to sue you and then the truth would come out at that point. Or you could be arrested for trespassing under Bahamian law, I guess. (Or in the case of the Celebrity Edge, Maltese law.)

It's now abundantly clear that Celebrity plans to sail with only vaccinated passengers regardless of the state law, so it'll be interesting to see how the mechanics of it work.

 

[DCLMP]

They can ask. They could make you sign an affidavit saying that you're vaccinated as a condition of boarding. Assuming the law is constitutional, the only thing that they're not allowed to do is ask for proof of vaccination as a condition of providing service. But in that scenario, if they had reason to believe that you lied on the affidavit ... for example, you got sick on the cruise and forced them to end it early ... they are well within their rights to sue you and then the truth would come out at that point.

You really think the cruise lines are going to sue people for getting sick on a ship. If you can't mandate vaccines then you can't sue people for not getting one. You guys are really reaching here. I've been told many times on this board that cruising is a privilege, not a right. That goes both ways. You don't have to cruise if you don't want to be around unvaccinated people.

 

[Sykes]

If you can't mandate vaccines then you can't sue people for not getting one. You guys are really reaching here. I've been told many times on this board that cruising is a privilege, not a right. That goes both ways.

They can mandate vaccines as a condition of boarding the ship. Businesses get to choose who they want to do business with, and for the early sailings Celebrity has decided that for the time being they don't want to do business with adult passengers who are unvaccinated. It is well within Celebrity's rights to do so, and unvaccinated passengers can either choose a different cruise or try to board anyway (trying to bypass whatever controls Celebrity puts in place) and hope for the best. It seems odd that people would give money to a business that has explicitly told them that they're unwelcome.

 

[sethschroeder]

For now, its more of a wait and see for what they come up with... no need to tell me to not go because I raised concerns/questions about the vaccine verification process. We are all sort of in the same "boat" here (pun intended)... and we are really hoping we sail Sept. 4th.

They were a little aggressive in tone. That being said people keep trying to search for a way to make a vaccine check work. In the end it will not happen in the US it just won't. It might happen for a very small number of locations or specific states but not enough to the point that a business could rely on whatever those systems are. There are concerns on all sides regarding a centralized database and the roadblocks that requiring information checks would cause regarding the uptake on vaccines.

In the end I will give the same advice as I gave to people who didn't want to wear masks at WDW and that is to wait. For mask requirements I pointed to 2022 and for having the largest number of individuals vaccinated or having been previously infected there by some protection I will point to 2023.

They can mandate vaccines as a condition of boarding the ship.

Washington State yes (state is requiring it to a 95% requirement of passengers)
Florida no (state has fine of $5k per incident)
In general there is also possible requirements needed to allow exceptions to vaccine mandates by business based on laws regarding things like religion or health concerns.

Its currently a wait and see regarding Florida vs the cruise companies that want to require vaccination at all.

 

[Sykes]

Washington State yes (state is requiring it to a 95% requirement of passengers)
Florida no (state has fine of $5k per incident)
In general there is also possible requirements needed to allow exceptions to vaccine mandates by business based on laws regarding things like religion or health concerns.

Incorrect. The text of the Florida law only limits businesses from requiring documentation of vaccination. They are still allowed to tell unvaccinated individuals that they’re not welcome.

 

[DCLMP]

They can mandate vaccines as a condition of boarding the ship. Businesses get to choose who they want to do business with, and for the early sailings Celebrity has decided that for the time being they don't want to do business with adult passengers who are unvaccinated. It is well within Celebrity's rights to do so, and unvaccinated passengers can either choose a different cruise or try to board anyway (trying to bypass whatever controls Celebrity puts in place) and hope for the best. It seems odd that people would give money to a business that has explicitly told them that they're unwelcome.

It looks likes a celebrity will have you fill out a health screen, but I'm not sure how they can prove that you didn't get the vacinne. It seems like a stupid work-around CYA-type thing. Celebrity's market is older folks. They probably won’t have any issues and they know that.

 

[HiStitch626]

We also forget that there are lot of international passengers that have different requirements/proof/vaccines. How will they handle those?

The vast majority of international guests sailing DCL are coming from countries where national health systems managed the vaccine program. For most of them, it will be easier than determining whether Americans are vaccinated.

 

[Trera]

It looks likes a celebrity will have you fill out a health screen, but I'm not sure how they can prove that you didn't get the vacinne. It seems like a stupid work-around CYA-type thing. Celebrity's market is older folks. They probably won’t have any issues and they know that.

They are going to rely on the integrity of each passenger to be honest about whether they have been vaccinated or not. No way they can prove it either way. Just like DCL does now with their preboarding health screening form

 

[hrhdhd]

It looks likes a celebrity will have you fill out a health screen, but I'm not sure how they can prove that you didn't get the vacinne. It seems like a stupid work-around CYA-type thing. Celebrity's market is older folks. They probably won’t have any issues and they know that.

Celebrity isn't like Holland America, which definitely attracts an older crowd. And they'll be sailing summer cruises on their newest ship, which is bound to attract families.

 

[dmunsil]

I don't think you are understanding. They are not allowed to ask. It's a 5k fine.

Here's the entire text referring to business restrictions:

(1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

There's nothing about not being allowed to ask about vaccination status. They aren't allowed to ask for documentation. They can certainly ask whether guests are vaccinated, and even say they won't let you on if you're not. They could refuse to let you on unless you state clearly and unequivocally that you are vaccinated. They could even warn you of potential consequences if they learn that you lied about your vaccination status. They just can't make you show them a CDC card or other documentation.

I would also note that health care providers are exempt from this provision:

(5) This section does not apply to a health care provider as defined in s. 768.38; a service provider licensed or certified under s. 393.17, part III of chapter 401, or part IV of chapter 468; or a provider with an active health care clinic exemption under s. 400.9935.

Conceivably the cruise lines could have the onboard health care provider (who works for a contracted medical company, not directly for the cruise line) ask for vaccination documentation. Then the cruise line could say they won't carry passengers who are not acceptable to their health care provider. That would be a clear end run on the spirit of the law, but it seems to meet the letter of the law.

Honestly, I don't think any subterfuge is needed. They can just tell you at booking time that all passengers are required to be vaccinated, and ask at checkin whether you're vaccinated. Most people will tell the truth. If people ignore the requirements and lie at checkin, well, that's on them. The ones who would lie are exactly the kind of people who would get a fake CDC card, so requiring documentation really doesn't do much.

 

[Trera]

Here's the entire text referring to business restrictions:


There's nothing about not being allowed to ask about vaccination status. They aren't allowed to ask for documentation. They can certainly ask whether guests are vaccinated, and even say they won't let you on if you're not. They could refuse to let you on unless you state clearly and unequivocally that you are vaccinated. They could even warn you of potential consequences if they learn that you lied about your vaccination status. They just can't make you show them a CDC card or other documentation.

I would also note that health care providers are exempt from this provision:



Conceivably the cruise lines could have the onboard health care provider (who works for a contracted medical company, not directly for the cruise line) ask for vaccination documentation. Then the cruise line could say they won't carry passengers who are not acceptable to their health care provider. That would be a clear end run on the spirit of the law, but it seems to meet the letter of the law.

Honestly, I don't think any subterfuge is needed. They can just tell you at booking time that all passengers are required to be vaccinated, and ask at checkin whether you're vaccinated. Most people will tell the truth. If people ignore the requirements and lie at checkin, well, that's on them. The ones who would lie are exactly the kind of people who would get a fake CDC card, so requiring documentation really doesn't do much.

I agree with your thoughts on the subject. Thank you.

 

[DCLMP]

quoted wrong person.

 

[DCLMP]

Celebrity isn't like Holland America, which definitely attracts an older crowd. And they'll be sailing summer cruises on their newest ship, which is bound to attract families.

They won't be attracting families on June 26.

 

[DCLMP]

[

Here's the entire text referring to business restrictions:


There's nothing about not being allowed to ask about vaccination status. They aren't allowed to ask for documentation. They can certainly ask whether guests are vaccinated, and even say they won't let you on if you're not. They could refuse to let you on unless you state clearly and unequivocally that you are vaccinated. They could even warn you of potential consequences if they learn that you lied about your vaccination status. They just can't make you show them a CDC card or other documentation.

I would also note that health care providers are exempt from this provision:



Conceivably the cruise lines could have the onboard health care provider (who works for a contracted medical company, not directly for the cruise line) ask for vaccination documentation. Then the cruise line could say they won't carry passengers who are not acceptable to their health care provider. That would be a clear end run on the spirit of the law, but it seems to meet the letter of the law.

Honestly, I don't think any subterfuge is needed. They can just tell you at booking time that all passengers are required to be vaccinated, and ask at checkin whether you're vaccinated. Most people will tell the truth. If people ignore the requirements and lie at checkin, well, that's on them. The ones who would lie are exactly the kind of people who would get a fake CDC card, so requiring documentation really doesn't do much.

Doesn't a healthcare provider need your permission to release your medical records?

 

[hrhdhd]

They won't be attracting families on June 26.

Not all families have children under 12 or whatever the minimum vaccination age is. A friend of mine has two teenagers who are vaccinated, and they'd cruise on Edge.