First class seats... purchased versus upgrades

[dudspizza]

I am curious, are the majority of first class seats purchased or are a lot of elite fliers upgraded close to departure? I am flying American in April and the majority of 1st class is still wide open.

This is totally a curiosity thing... I am already booked in 1st using miles.....

Edited to add I am speaking of flights within the US.

Duds

 

[MAH4546]

I am curious, are the majority of first class seats purchased or are a lot of elite fliers upgraded close to departure? I am flying American in April and the majority of 1st class is still wide open.

This is totally a curiosity thing... I am already booked in 1st using miles.....

Duds

On an intra-North America flight, a huge majority, often as many as 75%, are upgrades. I'm elite on American, pretty much the only one left that still has high standards of domestic First class service, and I haven't flown coach in three years. At the same time, I haven't bought a first class domestic ticket, in, well, ever. I don't really think I would ever waste my money like that.

Though the longer a flight gets - like trans-cons and Hawai'i flights - the lower that percentage is.

On a trans-Continental flight, the majority are paid.

 

[blanq]

I think MAH4546 is spot on. The only thing I will add is that a number of airlines also offer pretty tempting upgrades for a reasonable fee during the 24 hour check-in window, or at the airport. I fly AirTran a lot, and often will upgrade to business class at check-in, or even at the gate.

 

[uva185]

It really depends on the route but overall most seats are given out as upgrades to elite flyers. Businessmen that do purchase First Class wouldn't do so until close to departure anyways.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

We also fly American and never fly coach. Usually we upgrade with miles, but we have also used miles for free FC tickets as well. I can now say that I have even used stickers for upgrades on one RT.

Now that AA charges a fee to use miles to upgrade, we are actually looking at paying for FC, on another airline, for our next trip to Maui. We get a $99 companion ticket for Alaska Airlines with the credit card. RT NS flights in FC to Maui out of OAK can be reasonably priced, so we were looking at buy 1 get one for $99. The totla cost compares favorably when the cost for 2 to upgrade on AA is $700 plus ticket cost plus 60,000 miles. -- Suzanne

 

[dudspizza]

We also fly American and never fly coach. Usually we upgrade with miles, but we have also used miles for free FC tickets as well. I can now say that I have even used stickers for upgrades on one RT.

Now that AA charges a fee to use miles to upgrade, we are actually looking at paying for FC, on another airline, for our next trip to Maui. We get a $99 companion ticket for Alaska Airlines with the credit card. RT NS flights in FC to Maui out of OAK can be reasonably priced, so we were looking at buy 1 get one for $99. The totla cost compares favorably when the cost for 2 to upgrade on AA is $700 plus ticket cost plus 60,000 miles. -- Suzanne

BTW, I enjoyed my 1 visit to SLO. I took a summer course at Cal Poly SLO. Nice area!

Duds

 

[BigTigger]

I'd agree with MAH4546 with Delta as my preferred carrier due to my location and routes offered to where I travel to for business. I have never paid for domestic first class on Delta and I'm a 2MM flyer with them. I get the domestic upgrade either at purchase or a few days ahead in most of my travel. On very competitive routes I occasionally fall into the airport upgrade pool where even with only Gold status last year and this year I've gotten most of the upgrades.

For international travel, I pay (well work reimburses me) for Business Elite. I've never been upgraded as that is not Delta's policy on international Business Elite services. I fly United to Asia occasionally and they have upgraded me from paid Business to First about 50% of the time. If your United itinerary has a domestic component, they will also put you in the special coach extra leg room section at booking if you have any status with them, but those are a bit harder to get upgraded to First unless you are a 100K level of status.

 

[prncess674]

It really depends on the route but overall most seats are given out as upgrades to elite flyers. Businessmen that do purchase First Class wouldn't do so until close to departure anyways.

If no one ever paid for them, the airlines would rip them out and replace them with economy seats. Plenty of firms still pay for F. I work for a large consulting firm and any flight I take that is over 1200 miles is in paid F. Also on long flights many people pay for F. Flights in/out of LAX, SFO, JFK are business heavy power cities and those flights regularly sell out in F.

Leisure spots, such as MCO, are easy to cash in miles for F since many of the airlines do a dumbed down F service which many times doesn't even include a meal. The bigger seat and free alcoholic bevvies are nice perks don't expect some magic flying carpet service with silver tea trollies and lobster thermidor. Realize that a saver domestic F ticket usually cost 50,000 miles and if it is for you and a companion you just blew 100,000 miles. 100,000 miles gets you a biz class seat to Europe which is exponentially more valuable.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

The first seat(s) to go in F are ALWAYS the MilesAAver award seats. Without exception. F service is not dumbed down by destination. Services offered are determined by the distance/duration of the flight.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate Duds on yet another successful yank...

 

[prncess674]

The first seat(s) to go in F are ALWAYS the MilesAAver award seats. Without exception. F service is not dumbed down by destination. Services offered are determined by the distance/duration of the flight.

Perhaps you aren't familiar with the EWR-FLL route serviced by Continental. This flight is an almost 3 hour flight, but CO does not fulfill the promise of "meals at meal times." They know it is full of leisure travelers and they choose not to cater it like a "real" domestic F flight.

 

[uva185]

If no one ever paid for them, the airlines would rip them out and replace them with economy seats. Plenty of firms still pay for F. I work for a large consulting firm and any flight I take that is over 1200 miles is in paid F. Also on long flights many people pay for F. Flights in/out of LAX, SFO, JFK are business heavy power cities and those flights regularly sell out in F.

Leisure spots, such as MCO, are easy to cash in miles for F since many of the airlines do a dumbed down F service which many times doesn't even include a meal. The bigger seat and free alcoholic bevvies are nice perks don't expect some magic flying carpet service with silver tea trollies and lobster thermidor. Realize that a saver domestic F ticket usually cost 50,000 miles and if it is for you and a companion you just blew 100,000 miles. 100,000 miles gets you a biz class seat to Europe which is exponentially more valuable.

I totally agree! I now only use my miles for international first or business class. Anything else is a complete waste!

Once, before I became knowledgeable about miles and points, I tried to book 2 tickets DCA-MCO for 25k each. The agent *strongly* recommended I save my miles for a more expensive ticket. I took his advice and I'm really glad he saved me from throwing away 50k miles on a cheap domestic route.

Speaking of lobster thermidor I just redeemed 140k Delta miles for a Singapore Airlines First Class ticket to Bali next January!!

 

[uva185]

Perhaps you aren't familiar with the EWR-FLL route serviced by Continental. This flight is an almost 3 hour flight, but CO does not fulfill the promise of "meals at meal times." They know it is full of leisure travelers and they choose not to cater it like a "real" domestic F flight.

Likewise some routes the F service is "enhanced". On US First Class (hold the jokes ), a meal is offered on CLT-DFW even though the duration of the flight does not warrant a meal. This is because that route is business traveler heavy.

 

[prncess674]

Speaking of lobster thermidor I just redeemed 140k Delta miles for a Singapore Airlines First Class ticket to Bali next January!!

Are you on the new A380, now that is worth every penny? Are you staying at the FS Sayan in Bali? Total heaven!

 

[uva185]

Are you on the new A380, now that is worth every penny? Are you staying at the FS Sayan in Bali? Total heaven!

No, they are still flying the 747 on the LAX-SIN route. *Hopefully* it will be swapped for the A380 or 77W before my trip!! SQ has essentially blocked awards on the new F, C, and Suites classes so the only way to book those classes as an award is use Singapore SilverKris miles at double the "Saver" rate or book the old F and hope there is an equipment swap.

Even if I have to fly on the 747 somehow I think I'll make do.

I'm a Hilton guy so I have the Conrad booked by default but I will have to check out the FS!

 

[MAH4546]

If no one ever paid for them, the airlines would rip them out and replace them with economy seats. Plenty of firms still pay for F. I work for a large consulting firm and any flight I take that is over 1200 miles is in paid F. Also on long flights many people pay for F. Flights in/out of LAX, SFO, JFK are business heavy power cities and those flights regularly sell out in F.

Customers "pay" for the seats with loyalty. Most First Class seats, even on "power" routes like Miami to Los Angeles (media traffic) or New York City to San Francisco (financial traffic) are complimentary upgrades, end of story. The majority of the paid seats are connecting onwards to international destinations.

Very few firms still pay for F, and most are entertainment studios.

I used to do work in airlines for exactly this kind of stuff. It's a fact that these days pretty much the only ones paying for F are extremely wealthy individuals and a small handful of companies, mainly in finance and media, and then only on long routes.

If JFK-LAX regularly sold out in paid F, why have I never failed to get a complimentary upgrade on the over dozen times I have flown that route in the past three years?

 

[prncess674]

Customers "pay" for the seats with loyalty. Most First Class seats, even on "power" routes like Miami to Los Angeles (media traffic) or New York City to San Francisco (financial traffic) are complimentary upgrades, end of story. The majority of the paid seats are connecting onwards to international destinations.

Trust me as a top tier elite on two airlines and mid tier on a third, I am acutely aware of the loyalty angle.

If JFK-LAX regularly sold out in paid F, why have I never failed to get a complimentary upgrade on the over dozen times I have flown that route in the past three years?

Perhaps you are flying at off times or days or perhaps you are connecting to increase your odds. check out flyertalk.com and there are hundreds of threads from disgruntled ExPlat, 1K, GS and Plats all complaining that top tier elites are having trouble clearing on these priority routes. AA and UA both operate special 3 class planes with enhanced service on these routes specifically because it is such a profitable premium cabin route. They aren't putting some of their best planes on these routes just to thank elites with comp upgrades.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

LAX-JFK rarely sells out in F. Case in point: Today's F seats on that route were undersold by a minimum of 6 per flight, thus allowing flyers with status to upgrade.

If JFK-LAX regularly sold out in paid F, why have I never failed to get a complimentary upgrade on the over dozen times I have flown that route in the past three years?

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

F travel for most firms is gone. Even outside counsel travels in coach. They typically upgrade on their own miles or dime. To pay consultants to fly F is great way to run yourself into BK.

Customers "pay" for the seats with loyalty. Most First Class seats, even on "power" routes like Miami to Los Angeles (media traffic) or New York City to San Francisco (financial traffic) are complimentary upgrades, end of story. The majority of the paid seats are connecting onwards to international destinations.

Very few firms still pay for F, and most are entertainment studios.

I used to do work in airlines for exactly this kind of stuff. It's a fact that these days pretty much the only ones paying for F are extremely wealthy individuals and a small handful of companies, mainly in finance and media, and then only on long routes.

If JFK-LAX regularly sold out in paid F, why have I never failed to get a complimentary upgrade on the over dozen times I have flown that route in the past three years?

 

[prncess674]

LAX-JFK rarely sells out in F. Case in point: Today's F seats on that route were undersold by a minimum of 6 per flight, thus allowing flyers with status to upgrade.

Wednesday afternoon isn't exactly the hottest time to fly. (i.e., non peak) Most people are already at work. Per my earlier point, flying at non peak times will sometimes garner an upgrade. Also just because 6 seats are available has no bearing on whether they were given as upgrades. You also didn't mention how many seats total are in premium cabins on this flight. If it were a 767 or 777 which has over 25 premium seats I wouldn't say that 6 remaining seats is a good chance of an upgrade, considering there are probably 20 or 30 elites on the flight. Also realize that passengers on full fare economy tickets also get priority. Only the highest tier elites would barely have a shot at an upgrade on trans con routes. I just checked the JFK-LAX routes on UA for tomorrow and they aren't no seats available in the upgradeable fare buckets.

Edited: there is one seat available for upgrade from biz to f at 6:35am and one on the 8:30pm. I wouldn't call that great upgrade odds considering to even be elibigle for this one seat you would have needed to purchase a full fare biz ticket to upgrade to F. ;-)