FASTPASS Return Times to Be Enforced Beginning March 7

[tjkraz]

Ah, but they would still have had an effect, in that the wait time of the standby line would have been longer at the time they entered, those 1400 FP users were there earlier. This does assume that everyone still gets in the standby line regardless of how the wait time changed, and it didn't pass someone's breaking point to get in the line. And that the standby line never empties, which generally doesn't happen on the attractions we are talking about.

Why would you make that assumption--particularly when discussing this particular topic?

Are you truly suggesting that there will be no changes in guest response if they see a 40 minute standby time at 12pm as opposed to a 30 minutes standby or a 20 minute standby?

This is why I've always called it a perception problem, and very akin to the physics problems that involve "frame of reference".

The real culprit? Those wait time clocks. They are always subject to wild perturbations for a number of reasons (see a BTG get in the standby queue? Don't bet on that wait time being accurate...)

Yes but doesn't it stand to reason that accuracy of the wait time clocks would improve as a result of these changes?

Posted wait times are impacted by the volume of guests entering both standby and FASTPASS at any given time. But the FASTPASS numbers will be much more predictable. No longer will they see unpredictable bumps of 1400 guests late in the operating day. The flow of FASTPASS returnees will be more consistent, thus minimizing its impact on overall waits.

 

[racefanof88]

Well, I see it as a good thing. I think common courtesy is something that needs to make a BIG comeback.

If my stated return time for any FP ride states that I have between 1pm and 2pm I will show up between 1pm and 2pm. I will not get in a line at 12:30 to ride another ride because the stand by wait time is 30 minutes. As everyone knows a 30 minute wait time can, as Buzz stated, change at the drop of a hat and become 45-60 minutes. Wait times also change based on the number of wheelchair or otherwise disabled riders are loading or unloading.

I find it VERY annoying when I see someone use a FP from earlier in the day OR from a previous day, and yes I have seen it happen. As I stated earlier, I would never show up a day late for an event and expect to be allowed entrance because I wanted to do something else first.

While I understand the "If they didn't show up at their stated time those in said standby and FP lines ride faster" thus creating a positive effect at that given moment. BUT when said riders show up late it has and adverse affect on those in line at that given moment; standby AND FP. Those pointing out that it is not simply black and white are wrong, it is exactly that simple.

I as one person do not have the right to inconvenience even one other person due to my overinflated sense of self and entitlement!!

 

[nytimez]

Why would you make that assumption--particularly when discussing this particular topic?

Are you truly suggesting that there will be no changes in guest response if they see a 40 minute standby time at 12pm as opposed to a 30 minutes standby or a 20 minute standby?



Yes but doesn't it stand to reason that accuracy of the wait time clocks would improve as a result of these changes?

Posted wait times are impacted by the volume of guests entering both standby and FASTPASS at any given time. But the FASTPASS numbers will be much more predictable. No longer will they see unpredictable bumps of 1400 guests late in the operating day. The flow of FASTPASS returnees will be more consistent, thus minimizing its impact on overall waits.

First, the idea that 1400 people suddenly get in line with late Fastpasses is pure fantasy.

Second, taking your argument to its logical conclusion, people walk into Disney and simply don't ride any rides because the lines are too long. And clearly, if the lines are long, people are getting in them. They're simply can't be that many people who refuse to wait in line -- otherwise, what are they doing? Swiss Family Treehouse and then going back to the pool?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

 

[tjkraz]

First, the idea that 1400 people suddenly get in line with late Fastpasses is pure fantasy.

Perhaps but it wasn't my number. I was simply continuing the illustration used by at least two other posters.

Second, taking your argument to its logical conclusion, people walk into Disney and simply don't ride any rides because the lines are too long. And clearly, if the lines are long, people are getting in them. They're simply can't be that many people who refuse to wait in line -- otherwise, what are they doing? Swiss Family Treehouse and then going back to the pool?

Of course not. And I don't claim to know exactly how things will change. We don't have nearly enough information available for that.

But it is undeniable that attraction wait times drive guest decision making. None of these changes will occur in a vacuum.

 

[nytimez]

Perhaps but it wasn't my number. I was simply continuing the illustration used by at least two other posters.



Of course not. And I don't claim to know exactly how things will change. We don't have nearly enough information available for that.

But it is undeniable that attraction wait times drive guest decision making. None of these changes will occur in a vacuum.

Nothing's undeniable.

 

[tjkraz]

Nothing's undeniable.

Insightful

 

[doconeill]

I actually asked a Cast Member about this two weeks ago. The person I spoke with told us this is not true, that they will still honor the FASTPASS if you come later than your time. So who knows...?

They hadn't announced it yet to cast members two weeks ago.

Why would you make that assumption--particularly when discussing this particular topic?

Are you truly suggesting that there will be no changes in guest response if they see a 40 minute standby time at 12pm as opposed to a 30 minutes standby or a 20 minute standby?

I put that clause in because I cannot know what the guest's tipping point is. I can only speak to the math.

But, would it also not make sense that since the wait times improved earlier, MORE people would get in the line? In which case it's likely a wash.

Yes but doesn't it stand to reason that accuracy of the wait time clocks would improve as a result of these changes?

Posted wait times are impacted by the volume of guests entering both standby and FASTPASS at any given time. But the FASTPASS numbers will be much more predictable. No longer will they see unpredictable bumps of 1400 guests late in the operating day. The flow of FASTPASS returnees will be more consistent, thus minimizing its impact on overall waits.

But since as you say, the wait times are impacted at any given time based on volume, why only aim at one particular reason which actually had a benefit earlier on? Why not moderate the flow of guests into the lines after a parade? That has a similar effect on the wait time.

 

[ChrisFL]

 

[nytimez]

Insightful

It's about as insightful as simply making a declaration and declaring it to be true, which is what you've attempted to do.

Sorry, not going to play that game with you.

 

[punch57]

We will see what happens on March 7th !!! Someone will post March 7th if the FP times are being enforced or not and we will start this whole discusion over again. LOL

This is the longest running discusion i have ever started !!!

 

[Max Rebo]

Well, I see it as a good thing. I think common courtesy is something that needs to make a BIG comeback.

If my stated return time for any FP ride states that I have between 1pm and 2pm I will show up between 1pm and 2pm. I will not get in a line at 12:30 to ride another ride because the stand by wait time is 30 minutes. As everyone knows a 30 minute wait time can, as Buzz stated, change at the drop of a hat and become 45-60 minutes. Wait times also change based on the number of wheelchair or otherwise disabled riders are loading or unloading.

I find it VERY annoying when I see someone use a FP from earlier in the day OR from a previous day, and yes I have seen it happen. As I stated earlier, I would never show up a day late for an event and expect to be allowed entrance because I wanted to do something else first.

While I understand the "If they didn't show up at their stated time those in said standby and FP lines ride faster" thus creating a positive effect at that given moment. BUT when said riders show up late it has and adverse affect on those in line at that given moment; standby AND FP. Those pointing out that it is not simply black and white are wrong, it is exactly that simple.

I as one person do not have the right to inconvenience even one other person due to my overinflated sense of self and entitlement!!

I don't see using FPs outside the designated window as rude. And although this has been discussed a gazillion times, I will offer my explanation.

Suppose my family and yours are both headed to Space Mountain. My family arrives just before yours, but instead of getting in line, we move aside and let you go ahead of us. Would you mind? Is this inconveniencing you? Does is reflect an "overinflated sense of self and entitlement"?

Then, suppose, we keep doing the same thing. We let family after family get in line ahead of us. Is this hurting anyone? Does it even seem like kind of a nice thing to do?

As time passes, other families join ours — they stand outside the entrance to Space Mountain, allowing those have arrived after them to ride before them. This continues for several hours until there is a half-dozen or so families waiting outside the queue.

Then, those families, totaling a few dozen or so people in this analogy, decide to finally enter the line. I have no doubt that for those arriving at Space Mountain at that moment, this will be perceived as an inconvenience. To them, their wait time just got longer by whatever time it takes a few dozen people to ride. But while the actions of the half-dozen families who entered the queue at that time might seem annoying, the reality is that those folks have actually been letting others ride early for several hours.

It's the same deal with using FPs outside the designated window. While those arriving at an attraction at the same time or right after the FP-user arrives, the wait time will be longer. But for everyone who rode before that moment, the wait time was shorter.

Using FPs "on time" will actually make wait times longer throughout the day.

Whether you want to use your FPs within the designated window or not is obviously up to you. But I think impugning the moral character of those who have made a different choice than you is a bit much.

 

[racefanof88]

I don't see using FPs outside the designated window as rude. And although this has been discussed a gazillion times, I will offer my explanation.

Suppose my family and yours are both headed to Space Mountain. My family arrives just before yours, but instead of getting in line, we move aside and let you go ahead of us. Would you mind? Is this inconveniencing you? Does is reflect an "overinflated sense of self and entitlement"?

Then, suppose, we keep doing the same thing. We let family after family get in line ahead of us. Is this hurting anyone? Does it even seem like kind of a nice thing to do?

As time passes, other families join ours — they stand outside the entrance to Space Mountain, allowing those have arrived after them to ride before them. This continues for several hours until there is a half-dozen or so families waiting outside the queue.

Then, those families, totaling a few dozen or so people in this analogy, decide to finally enter the line. I have no doubt that for those arriving at Space Mountain at that moment, this will be perceived as an inconvenience. To them, their wait time just got longer by whatever time it takes a few dozen people to ride. But while the actions of the half-dozen families who entered the queue at that time might seem annoying, the reality is that those folks have actually been letting others ride early for several hours.

It's the same deal with using FPs outside the designated window. While those arriving at an attraction at the same time or right after the FP-user arrives, the wait time will be longer. But for everyone who rode before that moment, the wait time was shorter.

Using FPs "on time" will actually make wait times longer throughout the day.

Whether you want to use your FPs within the designated window or not is obviously up to you. But I think impugning the moral character of those who have made a different choice than you is a bit much.

The analogy is not the same thing. If you allow a family to go ahead of you then that is your choice. You are not inconveniencing anyone but yourself at that time, and since both families are going to the standby line it is not the same as FP. If I am holding FPs for the whole day and decide at the end of the day to use them then I would effect those in the standby and FP line at that time.

There is a reason for stated times on the FP. If everyone decided to just show up at the same time with expired FPs you effectively have two standby lines at that given time. The FP method was thought out with very specific numbers for each return time. It is obviously a problem or Disney would not be enforcing the rules. Rules are put in place for a reason and I, for one, do not feel that I, nor my family, have some special entitlement to break said rules.

While using my FPs on time is up to me, and Disney as it is their rule; the ability to hoard them and use them all at the end of the day is completely up to Disney. I don't believe that I have impugned anyone's moral character, I feel that rules are rules and it is up to each individual to obey them, but when they do not there are consequences. When people believe that rules do not apply to them we end up with problems. Yes, I stand by my statement that some people have a sense of entitlement and believe that rules do not apply to them.

 

[doconeill]

The analogy is not the same thing. If you allow a family to go ahead of you then that is your choice. You are not inconveniencing anyone but yourself at that time, and since both families are going to the standby line it is not the same as FP. If I am holding FPs for the whole day and decide at the end of the day to use them then I would effect those in the standby and FP line at that time.

Actually, it is a pretty good analogy. Getting a Fastpass IS like standing aside. You get a Fastpass with a return time an hour from now, instead of getting in the standby line that's 30 minutes, well you are basically standing aside for 30 minutes. Then you take your place in line. You know what? If you are there at the first minute of your window, you are still affecting people in the standby line. By just as much if it was the last minute of the window. Or even later. No matter when you get back in that line, you're "inconveniencing" someone by making them wait.

The difference is, that if you wait longer to take your place in the line, more people in the standby line get to go through sooner.

 

[racefanof88]

Actually, it is a pretty good analogy. Getting a Fastpass IS like standing aside. You get a Fastpass with a return time an hour from now, instead of getting in the standby line that's 30 minutes, well you are basically standing aside for 30 minutes. Then you take your place in line. You know what? If you are there at the first minute of your window, you are still affecting people in the standby line. By just as much if it was the last minute of the window. Or even later. No matter when you get back in that line, you're "inconveniencing" someone by making them wait.

The difference is, that if you wait longer to take your place in the line, more people in the standby line get to go through sooner.

It isn't the same thing. I make the conscious decision to let someone ride before me, thus no one but myself is affected. If I decide to hold onto my FP and use it after it has expired then I am affecting those who are abiding by the rule and using their FP at the stated time AND the people in the standby line. It isn't that hard to understand. There are return times on the FP for a reason. If they allot 100(just a random number)FPs per hour then that is what they have calculated into the equation. If they allot 200 the wait time goes up etc etc. If the 100 FP holders show up on time(obeying the rules) AND another 100 expired FP holders(NOT obeying the rule) show up then the wait time goes up. It is that basic.

The inconvenience comes in when more than the carefully calculated number of people show up expecting the rules to be broken just for them. That is the whole issue; is it not? Some thinking that rules only apply to suckers too stupid to learn how to circumvent said rule.

 

[doconeill]

It isn't the same thing. I make the conscious decision to let someone ride before me, thus no one but myself is affected. If I decide to hold onto my FP and use it after it has expired then I am affecting those who are abiding by the rule and using their FP at the stated time AND the people in the standby line. It isn't that hard to understand. There are return times on the FP for a reason. If they allot 100(just a random number)FPs per hour then that is what they have calculated into the equation. If they allot 200 the wait time goes up etc etc. If the 100 FP holders show up on time(obeying the rules) AND another 100 expired FP holders(NOT obeying the rule) show up then the wait time goes up. It is that basic.

The inconvenience comes in when more than the carefully calculated number of people show up expecting the rules to be broken just for them. That is the whole issue; is it not? Some thinking that rules only apply to suckers too stupid to learn how to circumvent said rule.

But you are forgetting that the wait time went DOWN when those 100 FP holders didn't show up at their allotted time. It's that basic.

Taking the Fastpass in the first place is the same conscious decision to allow people ahead of you, in exchange for not having to actually wait in the line.

And I'm not going to debate what the "rules" are yet again.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

It loads MAX 202(204 including wheelchair car) people every 5 minutes, plus slows and stops for parties needing special assistance. A lot of people are singles in the cars. More than you would think.

And the fastpass line for the times I mentions, that I have seen more than just once, are all the way to the entrance of TLF. Let me give you a better example than yours.

I won't get into any stupid arguments on here, but I'll just say, from a CM perspective, from working and using FP, the enforcement is a good thing.

Yeah, you've said that a few times. Too bad so many Dis'es ARE better informed then you.

 

[racefanof88]

But you are forgetting that the wait time went DOWN when those 100 FP holders didn't show up at their allotted time. It's that basic.

Taking the Fastpass in the first place is the same conscious decision to allow people ahead of you, in exchange for not having to actually wait in the line.

And I'm not going to debate what the "rules" are yet again.

No, I am not forgetting that, but as I stated previously, those showing up late must be presenting a larger problem than the benefit being felt by the "fortunate" group. Disney is enforcing the FP return times for a reason.

There is no debate to the rules, they are what they are, plain and simple........Show up to use the FP at the time printed on the FP, OR lose the benefit of that particular FP.

I just find it amusing that some people advocate bypassing rules, and think that it is OK to do so. No matter how small the rule or ridiculous some may find the rule. I teach my child that rules are made for a reason. Why would I teach my child that some rules are OK to break, but others are not? That he only has to obey the rules he wants and not those that he finds silly.

 

[doconeill]

No, I am not forgetting that, but as I stated previously, those showing up late must be presenting a larger problem than the benefit being felt by the "fortunate" group. Disney is enforcing the FP return times for a reason.

And you do not know that reason. You are assuming there was a problem they are trying to fix. But all indications are that this is a preparatory move for the new system, not at attempt to fix anything that some people believe to be broken. If it really was a problem, why did they wait until the eve of a new system being rolled out?

 

[racefanof88]

[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]And you do not know that reason. You are assuming there was a problem they are trying to fix. But all indications are that this is a preparatory move for the new system, not at attempt to fix anything that some people believe to be broken. If it really was a problem, why did they wait until the eve of a new system being rolled out?

I never said I knew the reason, I just said there had to be one. And just as I am assuming there is a problem; you are assuming that it is because of a "new system". I guess that means they are both just a guess!

 

[nytimez]

I never said I knew the reason, I just said there had to be one. And just as I am assuming there is a problem; you are assuming that it is because of a "new system". I guess that means they are both just a guess!

They're both guesses. Doc's is an educated guess that's in line with what most people who are keeping an eye on the situation are expecting.

It's not exactly a stretch to say it's because of the "new system" since Disney is on record as stating that the new system is coming and that it's part of a billion-dollar investment.