FastPass reaches 100 Million

[Sarangel]

Here's the link to the story.

 

[pheneix]

That works out to 60 million hours stolen from a segment of guests and given to a select few...

 

[wdwfreak]

Originally posted by pheneix
That works out to 60 million hours stolen from a segment of guests and given to a select few...

What do you mean a select few? Anyone can get a fastpass.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

^... I'm confused about that comment also.

 

[Bob O]

I think this has overall been a very good addition to the parks and while the ulterior motive may have been to increase food/trinket sales i think it has worked out great and commend disney for letting every guest use the system and not making it solely a pay plan like some parks have done.
Disney was innovative in creating this and i would like to see the same creartivity used in the attractions/shows next.

 

[pheneix]

What I mean't by that comment was that 60 million hours was stolen by the masses waiting in line so that the select few who had Fastpasses could gain it. Yes, it is true that everyone can use Fastpass, but that time is still stolen by the guests who choose not to, and that is not fair at all (and even worse is that down the street Universal Orlando found a way to keep the express passes going without cripping the stand-by line by much).

And as far as Disney pioneering the ride reservation concept, that's not really true either. Alton Towers in England was the first park ever to use such a system, and domestically Universal Studios was using a reservation system to distribute out attendance for their studio tour long before Fastpass was a glimmer in an accountant's eye.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Pheneix my friend, yours is a concept that I wholeheartedly agree with. But it is also a concept that is very hard for many Disney fans to understand.

Keep at it. You make perfect sense to me!

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by pheneix
but that time is still stolen by the guests who choose not to, and that is not fair at all

Who's fault is that then?

You can't fault Disney for attempting to make attending their parks a more pleasant experience. The number one guest complaint was the length of lines. But perhaps I'm biased because I usually don't go to Disney during typical busy times of the year, so I only use FastPass when I feel like "virtually" waiting in line while riding the walk-on stuff or having a meal.

 

[Planogirl]

It may be "stolen" time but it's available for everyone so I don't agree that it's a bad thing. I personally appreciate it particularly in the case of a ride such as Test Track. "Stolen" infers that it's something taken away from others whereas the others could also go steal this chunk of time if they wished to.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by pheneix
And as far as Disney pioneering the ride reservation concept, that's not really true either. Alton Towers in England was the first park ever to use such a system

So Disney may not have been the first, but they weren't far behind. Alton Towers began using their "VQ" during the summer of 1999. Disney had FastPass up and running the end of '99/start of 2000.

The problem that I have with Alton Tower's "Virtual Que", is that it is only available for two or three rides in the entire park. Now that the system has been upgraded the original "VQ" is still free, but now you can get an even quicker wait time by purchasing different "Virtual Que" methods. Now if that doesn't separate you by class, then I'm not sure what does. At least Disney makes their service free to every guest.

What I mean't by that comment was that 60 million hours was stolen by the masses waiting in line so that the select few who had Fastpasses could gain it.

So would you rather wait 60 minutes for Space Mountain and then another 60 minutes for Alien Encounter? Wasting what little time the park is open just waiting in lines?

 

[HB2K]

Attending an MVMCP illustrates what a joke fast pass is.

Look at the Peter Pan ride. The line usually starts at the entrance arch (can't think of a better way to describe it). It wraps around the building and up the ramp.

During the day, when fast pass is enabled, the posted wait time is 45 minutes.

Yet, during MVMCP that same line had a posted time of 15 minutes. Did Santa make the ride run more efficently?

No he turned off fast pass.

The half an hour difference happens because for every 15-20 people who walk up through the fast pass queue, 1-2 are let in from the standby queue.

I'd rather have a 15 minute wait for most rides than have a 45 minute wait and get to walk onto one at a time.

Aside from the other intentions of fast pass (you spending more) it affects ANYONE who waits in ANY standby line....

So would you rather wait 60 minutes for Space Mountain and then another 60 minutes for Alien Encounter? Wasting what little time the park is open just waiting in lines?

What is the difference if you wait 2 hours for Space and walk onto Alien? What's saved? You just spent more time in one line.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by HB2K

What is the difference if you wait 2 hours for Space and walk onto Alien? What's saved? You just spent more time in one line.

There is no difference. I was trying to make the point that with FastPass, you can obtain a pass for Space Mountain, then wait 60 minutes for Alien Encounter. Once off Alien Encounter you walk right on to Space Mountain. So instead of waiting a total of 120 minutes for two rides, you have now only waited 60 minutes (half the time) for the same two rides.

I couldn't have said it any better myself thedscoop.

 

[patsal]

But, if you choose not to use that is a calculated choice so no one has deprived you of anything.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

I do have one question thought for pheneix and DVC Landbaron. What are your feelings on the "Universal Express" program and the Six Flags "Q-Bot" program?

 

[Sarangel]

Yet, during MVMCP that same line had a posted time of 15 minutes. Did Santa make the ride run more efficently?

No he turned off fast pass.

I'm sure that severely limiting the number of people who could possibly be waiting in the line had nothing to do with it....

Anyone know how many tickets are sold for MVMCP vs. average number of guests during the day?

Sarangel

 

[morphi]

I was trying to make the point that with FastPass, you can obtain a pass for Space Mountain, then wait 60 minutes for Alien Encounter. Once off Alien Encounter you walk right on to Space Mountain. So instead of waiting a total of 120 minutes for two rides, you have now only waited 60 minutes (half the time) for the same two rides.

I think the point is that with the introduction of FastPast, the stand-by wait time to ride ride B while you are in a virtual queue for ride A is dramatically increased from what it would be without FastPass.

So you can have a long wait time for stand-by AE and short wait time for FastPass SM; or (if FastPass didn't exist), you could have a medium wait time for both. I THINK the point was that the sum of the long and short times equals the sum of the two medium times.

If so, then FastPass buys you nothing, but in order to avoid losing time to those using FastPass, you have to use it too. For people who do not want to plan which ride they go to, but be more spontaneous, this puts a crimp in their style.

If everyone in the park that day rode every ride exactly once, everyone would still wait the same amount of time with or without FastPass (I think).

P.S. I still think FastPass is a good thing for the way I tour the parks however.

 

[pheneix]

>>>You can't fault Disney for attempting to make attending their parks a more pleasant experience.<<<

Yes, at the expense of others. Some benefit.

>>>"Stolen" infers that it's something taken away from others whereas the others could also go steal this chunk of time if they wished to.<<<

Not when every Fastpass is swiped up by lunch on a busy summer day.

>>>What are your feelings on the "Universal Express" program and the Six Flags "Q-Bot" program?<<<

Universal's program is still free to all guests, so that part of the program is still on par with Disney's. The only people that do get an added benefit are the people that are paying 3 to 4 times as much for their time with Universal, and it is perfectly acceptable for Universal to offer a benefit for them. If Disney were to ever do this for their resort guests, I would find it perfectly acceptable for them too. I should also add that Universal has a better handle on their express system than Disney does, and the stand-by line does not take much of a hit at all compared to the crippling that goes on at Disney.

Six Flags on the other hand is a ripoff. The name on the label should say a lot about the system.

>>>The half an hour difference happens because for every 15-20 people who walk up through the fast pass queue, 1-2 are let in from the standby queue.<<<

That is my main gripe with the system. Of course, Disney's only solution to the problem is to cripple the stand-by line even more for their next version of the system.

>>>Anyone know how many tickets are sold for MVMCP vs. average number of guests during the day?<<<

MVMCP attendance is usually significantly higher than the average daily attendance in December, save for the last week and a half in the month.

 

[morphi]

I'm sure that severely limiting the number of people who could possibly be waiting in the line had nothing to do with it....

HB2k was comparing lines of similar length meaning the same number of people in that line. It doesn't matter how full the rest of the park is due to MVMCP vs. a regular busy day. He is saying the ride processes far fewer stand-by people when FastPass is on than it processes regular riders when FastPass is off.

With FastPass ON and 200 people in the stand-by line, you will wait 45 minutes. With FastPass OFF and 200 people in line, you will wait 15 minutes. The numder of people in total in the park does not impact this analysis.

He is right when you consider only one ride. However, when you look at the total day spent at a park and all the rides that are experienced, the picture becomes more fuzzy.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by pheneix
Yes, at the expense of others. Some benefit.

I still don't understand your reasoning that "some" benefit when the privelige is afforded to everyone.

Not when every Fastpass is swiped up by lunch on a busy summer day.

As I said earlier, I guess I'm biased because I only got during slower times of the year, February, May, and October.

Universal's program is still free to all guests, so that part of the program is still on par with Disney's.

Not all the time. Now Universal offers a ticket book that gives you between 6 and 10 tickets that you can use at ANY attraction and get to the front of the line. You can purchase them at any ticket booth or guest services.

The only people that do get an added benefit are the people that are paying 3 to 4 times as much for their time with Universal, and it is perfectly acceptable for Universal to offer a benefit for them.

So it is ok to offer this benefit is your are separating is by class structure? That doesn't seem very fair to me.

If Disney were to ever do this for their resort guests, I would find it perfectly acceptable for them too.

Disney could never offer this to their resort guests like Universal does, there are for more hotel rooms and guests on Disney property. So it's far that because you are staying on-site at Universal property that you can get to the front of the line on any ride, whenever you want, and however many times you want? I would think that would add to more congestion.

I should also add that Universal has a better handle on their express system than Disney does, and the stand-by line does not take much of a hit at all compared to the crippling that goes on at Disney.

I haven't noticed a difference in standard between the way that Disney and Universal load their FastPass/Express guests and their stand-by line guests. If anything I feel that Disney has the better system because more of their rides are on a dual load system. One dedicated to FastPass and the other stand-by. When the FastPass line starts to thin and there are no arriving FastPass guests then stand-by guests are ushered over to the FastPass line. I haven't seen this type of loading style done at Universal. You usually see a group of stand-by, then a small party of Express guests, then another large group of stand-by... etc...

 

[DisneyKidds]

MVMCP attendance is usually significantly higher than the average daily attendance in December, save for the last week and a half in the month.

You and HB2K really lost me with this line of reasoning. You may be right about the attendance pattern you outline. However, you are comparing apples to oranges. When we were at the MK the first week of December this year they weren't even using fastpass as the crowds were so low. During the day there may have been a 45 minute line, but everyone had to wait in it - so you couldn't have a problem with that. During MVMCP on the same day you might only have a 15 minute line, and there might be just as many people in the park, but the focus of MVMCP for many is the shows and not the rides. I just can't buy your argument.

A better comparison would be the Pan wait in the summer or some other busier time when fastpass actually is enabled. Take May for instance. I recall many a May day with an hour plus wait for Pan, pre fastpass. Now in the fastpass era the line might be 45 minutes. The difference here is that that (up to an hour) wait in the past might have been up and down during the course of the day. Now, I think the 45 minute wait is a bit more consistent. Fastpass actually might "help" some people who are on the standby line (if they show up a noon now and the line is only 45 minutes when it might have been an hour in the past) and "hurt" others (if they show up at 5:00 and the line is 45 minutes when it might have been 20 in the past).