Fastpass Enforcement coming?

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LOL, well of course that's the point! The old rules allowed me to use late FP. I chose to use those rules to my advantage.

Why do people run to TSM first thing in the morning? Because they know the line will be shorter than middle of the day. Why do people visit Splash in the first hour of the park opening, and save Hall of Presidents for midday? Because it's the most efficient use of time.

I am pretty sure most people would prefer to maximize their time in the parks and tour in the most efficient way possible.

However, you seem to be saying that this is selfish or entitled or unfair behavior. That's where we'll disagree. Kelly had every opportunity I did to also use late FPs. So it was a perfectly even playing field.

If it is entitled, selfish, uncaring behavior to use FPs in the most efficient way possible, under rules that Disney allowed and were available for all guests to maxmize, then I stand convicted. I am a selfish, uncaring person who didn't bother herself about the fact that some people would choose not to use late FPs. I figured if they wanted to, they could.

All that said... in actuality the benefit of the late FP rules to me personally was always more about flexibility. I'd wager that in practice, hanging onto late FPs hurt me more than helped me, from the perspective of efficient touring. Why? Because I've only ever gone in the slow season, when FPs usually weren't necessary anyway... and hanging onto them for later sometimes meant I never even used the FP line at all--either because I never got back to the attraction, or because when I did go back, the standby line was short that FP wasn't necessary.

This happened to us numerous times last trip... got four FP for Star Tours, came back past the return window. Found a standby line with a 2-minute wait. (Posted 20 minutes.) We rode twice with our (late! oh the horrors!) FPs, then rode a third time standby. Our standby wait was equal to or shorter than our FP waits, there was simply no reason to use the FPs other than we had them in our fists. We actually would have benefited more using them earlier in the day, when the line was longer.

Then there was Jungle Cruise. We got FPs late morning, when the standby line was 40 minutes or so. The FP window was for middle of the day, during the height of the crowds. But we didn't use them then... we took an afternoon break and came back in the evening. When we went to Jungle Cruise, they had closed the FP line because it just wasn't needed. We got right onto the boat. Would have been more advantageous to us to use the FPs on time... but we didn't, so someone else benefited middday.

Or try Everest. I got two FPs just in case my dd was brave enough to ride. I knew we didn't have to make a particular window, so figured I'd hang onto them all afternoon until she decided if she wanted to try it. By the time she made her decision, it was nearly 5:00 pm and there was practically no standby line anyway. And in the end... she decided against riding anyway... so again both the standby and FP lines got to move 2-people faster than it would have if we'd shown up during our window.

Or there was the time in September, when we had Soarin' FPs that were past the window. We'd hung onto them for a final ride exiting the park. But when late afternoon came and we were ready to leave, we were so tired we didn't even want one last ride. So we handed them to people just entering the park, explaining that they were good the entire rest of the day. So grabbing three FPs early in the day, and hanging onto them for later, enabled folks who entered long after Soarin' FPs were gone to get on the ride with a minimal wait. Clearly I was trying to get something over on folks with that one, taking the time to let them know about the rules!

But you're right. Me using late FPs in January and September was horribly inconvenient to others. It was all about maximizing our time at the expense of others. :rotfl:

Now you just have to learn to maximize your time with FP enforcement. And everyone will actually being on a level playing field...that's all. You yourself said you had to explain the "rule" to others when giving away fast passes.

:confused3
 
I like to get the 8:10 breakfast ADR inside the park and skip the rope drop altogether. We ask for the check as soon as we sit down. We are out of there in plenty of time to be first on rides like the safari at AK, Splash Mountain and/or Space Mountain depending on which place we are eating, TT at Epcot, and TSM at HS. Shame on us.
 
Really?

By that logic, any efficient touring strategy is not fair if it's not advertised or promoted by Disney?

So all the people who get to DHS now for the unadvertised 8:30 opening (on a day the park says it opens at 9:00 am), are somehow morally questionable, right? Because it's not fair to do that, and be riding TSM at 8:40 a.m., when there are a whole bunch of people who don't know the park actually opened earlier than the printed time.

And all the people who run to Soarin' first thing, to take advantage of lower waits in the morning, are morally questionable because hey first-timers don't necessarily know that the best use of time is to do Soarin' first! Those poor folks who see SE and do it immediately, just because it's the Epcot icon and the first thing they come to, are being taken advantage of. Afterall, Disney doesn't say anywhere that Soarin' is the super-headliner and it makes more sense to go there first, to minimize wait time.

Heck even rope drop itself is questionable. People who go to rope drop for the express purpose of maximizing their touring time are morally questionable, because it's not fair to other guests who don't know how important rope drop is. Because you know, Disney doesn't advertsise how much more can get done in the first hour of park opening.

Reading back over this it might sound more harsh than intended. It is meant with a gentle tone...

But I have to say it because this idea that "if Disney doesn't advertise it, it's unfair to make the best use of it" just holds no water.

There are a LOT of things Disney doesn't advertise. There are a LOT of touring strategies that others might not know about.

Perhaps the moral thing to do is disregard all touring strategies completely, because some people might not be aware of them, or might not choose to use them?

This is many levels of faulty logical jumps too far, and both of your questions are too silly to answer directly.

I never said or implied any of this.

You based your argument that using a late FP was ok with you because everyone has the same opportunity.

I am pointing out that people do not have the same opportunity because Disney not only does not tell them they can use a late FP, they actually imply the opposite in all their literature on the matter and with the way the FP itself is designed. And, occasionally, they didn't allow it.

It was very much an "in the know" kind of benefit.

But nothing is wrong with it at all.

So base your argument on the fact that you were allowed to do it, and leave it there.
 
I like to get the 8:10 breakfast ADR inside the park and skip the rope drop altogether. We ask for the check as soon as we sit down. We are out of there in plenty of time to be first on rides like the safari at AK, Splash Mountain and/or Space Mountain depending on which place we are eating, TT at Epcot, and TSM at HS. Shame on us.

Disney doesn't advertise that you can do this. This is cheating. You and your family should be locked up! :rotfl:
 

Actually, Disney makes it crystal clear that you can make an ADR inside the park for a time before the park is open.

But they don't say you can get the check as soon as you arrive and bolt straight for the ride. Cheating! Morales would not approve!
 
See...there it is again...just as a debate point... you really can't base your whole argument on this because the fact you could use them late was not advertised or promoted in any way by Disney.

It was an insider secret (indeed, the first one I shared with friends when they asked me for tips and tricks).

I think the best that can be said was you (and me) were technically within the rules.

Wasn't THAT much of an INSIDER secret, our first trip there we forgot about it, but were reminded by no fewer than three CM's that it was ok to return at a later time in the day. I would argue that if CM's are giving the information out, that would be an advertisement, or promotion by Disney . . . after all, those CM's do represent the company that they work for.
 
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But they don't say you can get the check as soon as you arrive and bolt straight for the ride. Cheating! Morales would not approve!

Can you ask Morales about this one?

9:45 ADR at CRT.

Walk up to CM at 8:30 on a 9 am opening day and say "I have a breakfast ressie at CRT, may I enter the park to make my way over there?"

Enjoy a half hour of empty Main St, see Rapunzel first, ride SM, pull FPs for PP, go eat breakfast at 9:45.
 
Can you ask Morales about this one?

9:45 ADR at CRT.

Walk up to CM at 8:30 on a 9 am opening day and say "I have a breakfast ressie at CRT, may I enter the park to make my way over there?"

Enjoy a half hour of empty Main St, see Rapunzel first, ride SM, pull FPs for PP, go eat breakfast at 9:45.

Now that's totally cheating. Applause/condemnations for your despicable/ingenous plan.
 
Disney doesn't advertise that you can do this. This is cheating. You and your family should be locked up! :rotfl:

I know, and yet we continue to do it.:rotfl2:

Although, the lack of rope drop at HS has made us change our strategy there. OMG did I just admit to being flexible? For shame!
 
Wasn't THAT much of an INSIDER secret, our first trip there we forgot about it, but were reminded by no fewer than three CM's that it was ok to return at a later time in the day. I would argue that if CM's are giving the information out, that would be an advertisement, or promotion by Disney . . . after all, those CM's do represent the company that they work for.

well it's not like you had to be on double secret probation to be in the know, I agree. :lmao:
 
well it's not like you had to be on double secret probation to be in the know, I agree. :lmao:

whatever that is?


While not a completely an "insider secret"...there was probably never a time when there were more people in WDW who knew about it than didn't know about it.
 
"double secret probation"

Quote from Animal House

And I will admit that on my 1st trip as an adult, I totally did not get the FP system until about 3 days in. But, that was my fault, no one else's. Maybe I should have read the ticket.
 
This is many levels of faulty logical jumps too far, and both of your questions are too silly to answer directly.

I never said or implied any of this.

You based your argument that using a late FP was ok with you because everyone has the same opportunity.

I am pointing out that people do not have the same opportunity because Disney not only does not tell them they can use a late FP, they actually imply the opposite in all their literature on the matter and with the way the FP itself is designed. And, occasionally, they didn't allow it.

It was very much an "in the know" kind of benefit.

But nothing is wrong with it at all.

So base your argument on the fact that you were allowed to do it, and leave it there.

But when people base their argument on the fact that we were allowed to do it, and leave it there, we get accused of being entitled, selfish people who don't care if our late FP use hurts others.

So how exactly would you like me to defend against that?

The fact is I'm a rule-follower by nature. Remember the goody-two-shoes kids in high school who didn't cut class, never tried an illicit substance, didn't drink at all before age 21? The ones who would rather study at night than go out and party? That was me.

I'm also a believer in level playing fields as much as possible, and in helping others, and in fact my career is dedicated to those principles.

So here's the thing: when a CM (yes, a CM) told me FPs could be used after the window, I actually DID take the time to think through the repercussions.

After thinking it through, it became clear that everyone had this same opportunity and that me using a late FP would not have a negative effect.

But when I say "I was allowed to do it, it was in the rules," people say "So all you care about is advantaging yourself?" (Implying I care nothing about others.)
 
Can you ask Morales about this one?

9:45 ADR at CRT.

Walk up to CM at 8:30 on a 9 am opening day and say "I have a breakfast ressie at CRT, may I enter the park to make my way over there?"

Enjoy a half hour of empty Main St, see Rapunzel first, ride SM, pull FPs for PP, go eat breakfast at 9:45.

I asked Morales. He has nominated you for the Royal Order of the Inconsiderate Oafs.

This is an actual photo of his reaction, taken moments ago:

1288823558_top-10-bully-comeuppance-moments_9.jpg
 
Really??? You've never seen "Animal House?"


I know...I was continuing the quote (sort of) - "We're on double-secret probation, whatever that is. We can't have a Toga party." I probably should have left off the question mark.
 
I asked Morales. He has nominated you for the Royal Order of the Inconsiderate Oafs.

This is an actual photo of his reaction, taken moments ago:

1288823558_top-10-bully-comeuppance-moments_9.jpg

You mean Pedro's cousin also happens to be the one and only Morales? Talk about a small world!
 
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