Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[nytimez]

Wow, I thought it was Japan who bombed Pearl Harbor.

Denise

Forget it, he's rolling.

 

[brerrabbit]

Hey! He can't do that to one of our pledges (FP's). Only we can do that to one of our pledges (FP's).

Sorry , it seem to fit the moment.

 

[TwiddleDeeTwiddleDum]

7 years of FP strategy down the drain

Now I'm going to have to figure out how to ride later in the day after my afternoon pool hopping break followed by dinner with those space lizards

 

[KellyNY]

But when people base their argument on the fact that we were allowed to do it, and leave it there, we get accused of being entitled, selfish people who don't care if our late FP use hurts others.

So how exactly would you like me to defend against that?

The fact is I'm a rule-follower by nature. Remember the goody-two-shoes kids in high school who didn't cut class, never tried an illicit substance, didn't drink at all before age 21? The ones who would rather study at night than go out and party? That was me.

I'm also a believer in level playing fields as much as possible, and in helping others, and in fact my career is dedicated to those principles.

So here's the thing: when a CM (yes, a CM) told me FPs could be used after the window, I actually DID take the time to think through the repercussions.

After thinking it through, it became clear that everyone had this same opportunity and that me using a late FP would not have a negative effect.

But when I say "I was allowed to do it, it was in the rules," people say "So all you care about is advantaging yourself?" (Implying I care nothing about others.)

Actually same or not same opportunity it does not make it better.

Scenario 1.
Only few knew, only few had access to this info and therefore only few could possibly decide to Late FP or not. This leads to few taking advantage of others, and we already established that affect exist on individual level. And therefore it is not fair to others in line, esp. to those who did not even know. Note that when not everyone is aware, it is loophole and not a rule.

Scenario 2.
Info was out and everyone knew and therefore had equal opportunity to use system. Now it is not a loophole anymore, it is a rule, official, open rule. Now we have much more people do not pay attention to window or it maybe even does not exist to make it simple, and as a result system is uncontrolled. In other words now FP line empty at some times completely and way too full at other times.

So you see, it does not matter how informed others were, it did not work well.
I personally believe that problem progressed from Scenario 1 to Scenario 2(to some degree).

As for how to defend you(late FPer) from us (on time FPers). We would not bother you(general you) if you would not try to pull leg here. When you deny you ever affected us or it was minimal why we should even care or the best one, we do not know for sure who, when, how and so on, combined with all this talk about clock watchers, lunatics and guilting, how do you think we should react?

 

[magicbob]

Wasn't THAT much of an INSIDER secret, our first trip there we forgot about it, but were reminded by no fewer than three CM's that it was ok to return at a later time in the day. I would argue that if CM's are giving the information out, that would be an advertisement, or promotion by Disney . . . after all, those CM's do represent the company that they work for.

Precisely! As I mentioned earler in this thread, everytime we've been at WDW in the last 5 years or so, the CMs were openly advertising to everyone within earshot of the FP machine that they were good any time after the window. They were not whispering to a select few an "insider secret loophole" to take advantage of at the expense of others. They were encouraging using FPs after the window and they were letting all guests know it was ALLOWED. No stigma attached!

Those who claim late FP use is "abuse" of the system seem to just have an intrinsic need to feel morally superior.

And therefore it is not fair to others in line, esp. to those who did not even know. Note that when not everyone is aware, it is loophole and not a rule.

This is as far from true as anything I've read in 103 pages. Ignorance of a rule by some does not make it a loophole. Many states allow you to turn right after stopping at a red light. That is the rule. If people from a state that does not allow this travel to a state that does and they do not know it is allowed, that doesn't mean everyone turning right after red is "abusing the system" and "taking advantage of a loophole."

 

[eliza61]

Precisely! As I mentioned earler in this thread, everytime we've been at WDW in the last 5 years or so, the CMs were openly advertising to everyone within earshot of the FP machine that they were good any time after the window. They were not whispering to a select few an "insider secret loophole" to take advantage of at the expense of others. They were encouraging using FPs after the window and they were letting all guests know it was ALLOWED. No stigma attached!

Those who claim late FP use is "abuse" of the system seem to just have an intrinsic need to feel morally superior.

I have never once heard any cm say anything to that effect. I go to disney at least once a year. 99.9% of the time the cm's don't open their mouths unless directly spoken to. at the major headliners all I see them doing is taking your park ticket and inserting them for you.

So obviously it is not broadcasted widely.

What we feel is moot, evidently Disney feels there is a problem so they are changing it. and they can feel morally superior, they make the rules.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

I read from a reputable and trusted source, that the policy is being enforced because of "rampant" abuse of late FP's, ouch. LOL.

My main concern is the excessive amount of downtime that occurs with the parks key attractions. Just on our last trip, Mission Space, Test Track, Splash Mountain, Expedition Everest (weather related), Big Thunder Mountain (weather related) and Dinosaur was down, all of the CM's at these attractions told us to come back at anytime later that day and the FP's were good until park close. I am very interested to see how Disney will handle these kinds of issues, because they are quite common.

 

[magicbob]

I have never once heard any cm say anything to that effect. I go to disney at least once a year. 99.9% of the time the cm's don't open their mouths unless directly spoken to. at the major headliners all I see them doing is taking your park ticket and inserting them for you.

So obviously it is not broadcasted widely.

But many HAVE observed CMs broadcasting the information. Just because not EVERYONE knows, doesn't mean it is not valid. And the point is that they were not acting like it was a secret loophole that we could use if we lacked the morals to resist the temptation to do so.

What we feel is moot, evidently Disney feels there is a problem so they are changing it. and they can feel morally superior, they make the rules.

As others have stated, the change is a precursor to implementing the new system, not necessarily Disney correcting a "problem." They do make the rules, but this has nothing to do with vindicating those who consider late FP use immoral. It is a business decision to CHANGE the policy fro allowing late use to not allowing late use. I have no problem with Disney's right to make this change in the rule (although I'll admit I'm disappointed they are). What does rub me wrong is when people take get on their soapbox and proclaim that anyone using a late FP was not following the rules. Sorry, but we were following the rules as they presently exist. Come March 7th, we will continue to follow the rules (albeit a new rule).

I read from a reputable and trusted source, that the policy is being enforced because of "rampant" abuse of late FP's, ouch. LOL.

Source? Bus driver? Interesting opinion, but the fact remains that Disney allowed it and in many cases encouraged it.

...all of the CM's at these attractions told us to come back at anytime later that day and the FP's were good until park close.

Exactly. FPs (for now) are good until park close. That is what the CMs tell guests and not just when an attraction is down.

 

[P'colaBeachBum]

I have never once heard any cm say anything to that effect. I go to disney at least once a year. 99.9% of the time the cm's don't open their mouths unless directly spoken to. at the major headliners all I see them doing is taking your park ticket and inserting them for you.

So obviously it is not broadcasted widely.

What we feel is moot, evidently Disney feels there is a problem so they are changing it. and they can feel morally superior, they make the rules.

I too have been going every year. Not once did I ever hear a CM say it was ok to use after the time stated on the FP. Would not have used that info if told, but I'm amazed how many knew about the late use. I guess all it took was a few to "spread the news" and not necessarily many CM's saying it was ok? Anywho, as you said..it's a moot point and I'm glad it's being changed to make it fair for all.

Carry on and eat a cupcake....

 

[KellyNY]

Those who claim late FP use is "abuse" of the system seem to just have an intrinsic need to feel morally superior.



This is as far from true as anything I've read in 103 pages. Ignorance of a rule by some does not make it a loophole. Many states allow you to turn right after stopping at a red light. That is the rule. If people from a state that does not allow this travel to a state that does and they do not know it is allowed, that doesn't mean everyone turning right after red is "abusing the system" and "taking advantage of a loophole."

Unless it is printed on FP it is not a rule. Isn't turning on red printed officially in states that allow it or you found out about it from someone else?

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Source? Bus driver? Interesting opinion, but the fact remains that Disney allowed it and in many cases encouraged it.

Tikiman.

 

[mom2maggie]

I'm dreading this part of my trip (we'll be there March 3-11) not because I won't be able to use the fastpass late, but because of all the tension that is just going to be simmering in the air. Not looking forward to that!

 

[magicbob]

Unless it is printed on FP it is not a rule. Isn't turning on red printed officially in states that allow it or you found out about it from someone else?

You're proving my point. In states where you cannot turn right on red, there is not a sign posted saying "No Right on Red" (such signs do exist in some places, but mostly at specific intersections in states that DO normally allow it). Does that mean it is NOT a rule and I CAN turn right on red since it's not posted? No. It is still a rule even though it is not "printed" at the intersection. Sure, it might be printed in a driver training manual somewhere, but unless you are getting a driver license in that state, you won't see where it's printed and the only way you will know not to turn right on red is because you DID hear it from someone. Just as many people heard here or from CMs that you could use FP until park close even though it wasn't printed on the FP.

 

[eliza61]

But many HAVE observed CMs broadcasting the information. Just because not EVERYONE knows, doesn't mean it is not valid. And the point is that they were not acting like it was a secret loophole that we could use if we lacked the morals to resist the temptation to do so.



As others have stated, the change is a precursor to implementing the new system, not necessarily Disney correcting a "problem." They do make the rules, but this has nothing to do with vindicating those who consider late FP use immoral. It is a business decision to CHANGE the policy fro allowing late use to not allowing late use. I have no problem with Disney's right to make this change in the rule (although I'll admit I'm disappointed they are). What does rub me wrong is when people take get on their soapbox and proclaim that anyone using a late FP was not following the rules. Sorry, but we were following the rules as they presently exist. Come March 7th, we will continue to follow the rules (albeit a new rule).



Source? Bus driver? Interesting opinion, but the fact remains that Disney allowed it and in many cases encouraged it.



Exactly. FPs (for now) are good until park close. That is what the CMs tell guests and not just when an attraction is down.

Tomatoe/tomaatoe. regardless to what we believe is the reason behind it (and no one as yet has proven any reason so your crystal ball is as good as mine) Disney is changing the policy.

So once again no matter who you think feels superior, the will of disney will be done and whether or not another fast pass version is coming or not, as of March 7 the abuse will stop and at least be slowed. So really if someone wants to feel vindicated they pretty much have more to go on then you BECAUSE as of march 7th they will have a change implemented that they favor.

See having the morale high ground is really not all that great when you are on the losing side of the equation and for people who like to use their fps whenever they wanted it's not really much of a consolation to say they cm's told them it was ok. now is it.

I've got no horse in this race as I've toured successfully without fast pass and with fast pass and will probably continue to do so. You don't like when folks get on their "high horse", I can't understand why folks are having such a freaky melt down because they now have to come back within a time frame.

Analyze away, the bottom line: starting very soon it all changes

 

[nytimez]

I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.

 

[magicbob]

as of March 7 the abuse will stop and at least be slowed.

No, on March 7th the policy of allowing use after the window will change. The abuse cannot stop because using FP late was not abuse. Disney's policy was that FPs were good until park closing.

 

[tpettie]

I'm dreading this part of my trip (we'll be there March 3-11) not because I won't be able to use the fastpass late, but because of all the tension that is just going to be simmering in the air. Not looking forward to that!

It will be interesting you will have to report back as you will have had it half with and half without late returns (if you were the late return type).

I feel for the CM having to deal with people those days.

 

[Love Tink]

See having the morale high ground is really not all that great when you are on the losing side of the equation and for people who like to use their fps whenever they wanted it's not really much of a consolation to say they cm's told them it was ok. now is it.

Wow. Preschool much?

You must really need a "win" in life. Enjoy.

 

[WillAustin]

Unless it is printed on FP it is not a rule. Isn't turning on red printed officially in states that allow it or you found out about it from someone else?

Even if late FP users are the cause of the change in policy, it doesn't mean any of them did anything wrong.

 

[doconeill]

Tikiman.

Tikiman did not actually say why it was changing. He does say, "Unfortunately with that flexibility came abuse." Of course, the term "abuse" depends on which side of the lagoon you are on, but he actually doesn't say that is the reason for the change.