Fast Pass to become "Pay for Play"?

[bicker]

But for Disney to say to me "OK, you've got a room at Pop Century for $80 a night. You could have a room at Polynesian for $250." That would make no sense.

Why not?

Choosing to stay off property by choice to visit other attractions is far different than staying on property at a Value Resort because you can't afford $250 a night for lodging.

The most significant difference that matters, from a business standpoint, is how much revenue you're providing to Disney.

 

[bicker]

But my tickets still cost the same price as yours do!!!

But your hotel revenue doesn't go to Disney. That's the point. I understand you don't want them to link the two.

If this goes through, the message Disney is sending is this "We don't care how much you spend on tickets, that isn't enough.

It is a violation of a legal fiduciary responsibility to manage a corporation contrary to what maximizes long-term shareholder value. It's not personal. It's business.

Unless you are staying on our property and giving us even more money, you will be penalized by having to wait in line for everything while others can breeze by in the fp line." NOT FAIR!

Sk8Leigh said it best: "it would probably be more like a reward for staying on site, not a punishment for not staying on-site". From Disney's standpoint, they wouldn't be punishing you, but rather rewarding customers who are even more loyal than you that they're willing to pay an even higher premium.

 

[bicker]

I don't see how so many people can't see how this system would be unfair.

I doubt it is that "people can't see" -- rather many of us disagree with your assessment. I haven't seen you explain the basis on which your assessment is based. Fairness, in business, is delivering on what you explicitly promise, within the the boundaries of the law. What promise has Disney issued to you that this would violate? or What law would Disney be violating if they did this?

 

[PrincessMelissa]

It has ALWAYS amazed me how few people KNOW about Fast PAss to begin with. I cannot tell you how many times I have tried to explain it or given away tickets when we changed our plans only to get REALLY blank stares back - or people that are pretty sure we are trying to trick them.

For the love of Pete, you too? It always amazes me as well. Glad to know you've noticed it too. Even though the info is right there on the guidemaps.........
I'm greatly enjoying everyone's posts- they all make me think more about the topic and the Disney company as a whole.

 

[LovePug]

If the non-deluxe or off-site staying guests find that their wait times for rides are increasing due to the new fast pass system, it's very likely that some, if not many, may decide WDW is no longer a destination at which they want to spend their vacation dollars. After all, the prospect of spending a fairly large sum of money to buy park tickets for a family of 4 and then spending a couple of hours or more in line just to get on the popular attractions isn't something most people would consider as money well spent.

Exactly! Which is why I said, way back at the beginning of this thread, that I'd cut my 2 trips a year (1 in the summer and 1 in Value season) to one trip during Value season when FP isn't an issue . I wouldn't like it, but I can't see spending all day in lines for every single ride if I couldn't get a FP in the summer months. I'm shelling out entirely too much money to WDW for that. It's only a small fraction of my budget that goes to my offsite resort. The rest goes in the parks. They'd be losing much more money from me than they'd gain by getting me to stay onsite (which won't happen regardless unless they made a resort pet friendly and I know that's not going to happen ).

 

[SoCalKDG]

Currently many of the tours give 2-4 Fastpasses, as well as front of the line access. Have dinner at MGM, get reserved seating. Fantasmic dessert at DL, get balcony seating. Purchase a package through AAA(in association w/ Disney) at DL, you get FP. Folks, special FP are already being given out.

So you book an all inclusive stay at a deluxe that includes food, lodging, park entrance and 4 FP for the day. Its just a package no different then what can be purchased now.

I have no problem allowing onsite guests the advantage of reserving FP on the following conditions:

1) All guests can get at least two FP for the day(say 2 for Value, 3 for Moderate, 4 for Deluxe, 5 for Concierge). This limit is for all 4 parks total, so you can't get 20 FP if you are Concierge.

2) Still have some FP being given in the park as well. This way offsite can still get a FP if they get there early

Having said all that, what pct. of people would actually use this service? When you consider how many people don't even use FP, how many people dont' use PS(or whatever they are now called), how many people don't even plan, etc., there are still going to be a great number of FP available.

The other big thing to note is that this could give Disney a wealth of info. Lets say they do what is mentioned above. To obtain these FP's, you must use your TV, reserve for the next day. So know Disney knows what parks and what times are going to be crowded. Adjustments to staff, as well as increasing or decreasing the number of ride vehicles can be made in advance.

WDW has been stagnating in attendance the last three years. Room occupancy is around 80%. They also have figures on how many days you go to the park compared to how many days you are staying in their hotel. If they can offer something that increases occupancy rates, as well as get people into the parks more frequently, while lessening waiting in line(or trooping across the park to get a FP), they are going to do it, as they should.

 

[SoCalKDG]

For the EMH in the morning, are FP available?

 

[MiaSRN62]

From Disney's standpoint, they wouldn't be punishing you, but rather rewarding customers who are even more loyal than you that they're willing to pay an even higher premium.

I don't know ? Considering how long we've been going to Disney World (onsite and offsite), and the fact that the FP system has already been en force this long, I think that the realization that they're taking away the perk as we have known it for so long makes it feel like a punishment to many loyal fans (onsite and off regardless of hotel stayed in---and what about FL residents ?) If this has been addressed already, sorry, didn't have time to read thru this entire thread right now.
Had the FP system not been active for so long under the current policy/guidelines and rather this was some new policy Disney was bringing out, then I think that would make it more digestible to many. But by doing it this way, they will clearly be taking away a familiar perk to many & it will feel like a slap-in-the-face

 

[SoCalKDG]

I don't know ? Considering how long we've been going to Disney World (onsite and offsite), and the fact that the FP system has already been en force this long, I think that the realization that they're taking away the perk as we have known it for so long makes it feel like a punishment to many loyal fans (onsite and off regardless of hotel stayed in---and what about FL residents ?) If this has been addressed already, sorry, didn't have time to read thru this entire thread right now.
Had the FP system not been active for so long under the current policy/guidelines and rather this was some new policy Disney was bringing out, then I think that would make it more digestible to many. But by doing it this way, they will clearly be taking away a familiar perk to many & it will feel like a slap-in-the-face

First, there are many different directions Disney can go in the future(remember this is all talk) based off the patents.

They might keep the existing system at a reduced volume of 70% of the current FP, then they give the other 30% to their onsite hotel guests. Or they give every onsite guest a chance to get 3 FP the day before, but this would then limit how many they could get that specific day. Or maybe they give every guest the oppurtunity to reserve 3 FP's, but deluxe gets a one hour earlier window to reserve their times?

Admissions, hotels, and other expenses(food, stuff, etc.) are pretty equally split for WDW income(info from Walt Disney financials). They aren't going to jeopardize two of the items(admissions and other) just to help hotels when hotels is only earning them 1/3 of their income.

 

[bicker]

I don't know ? Considering how long we've been going to Disney World (onsite and offsite) ... makes it feel like a punishment to many loyal fans

In business, a loyal customer is one that is willing to pay a premium for a product or service. In blind taste tests, people prefer Cola X to Cola Y, but will pay more for Cola Y anyway -- that's customer loyalty, and the higher the premium, the more loyalty is indicated.

and the fact that the FP system has already been en force this long, I think that the realization that they're taking away the perk as we have known it for so long

Not that it matters to the rest of it, but what evidence is there of of that?

If this has been addressed already, sorry, didn't have time to read thru this entire thread right now.

That's okay -- we don't mind rehashing the same stuff!

Had the FP system not been active for so long under the current policy/guidelines and rather this was some new policy Disney was bringing out, then I think that would make it more digestible to many.

I cannot be sure, but there seems to be a correlation between "digestion" and how positively or negatively the guest thinks they'll be affected by the changes that the guest is guessing would be applied. Putting that aside, FastPass is relatively new. How "digestible" was it to folks who's preferred touring approach to Walt Disney World would have them arriving at the parks in the late afternoon (when, on the busiest days, all the FastPasses are already gone)? Change is normal. Change is standard practice.

But by doing it this way, they will clearly be taking away a familiar perk to many & it will feel like a slap-in-the-face

Relatively few guests are passionate enough about any service provider to take service offering changes personally. Most take it in stride, and evaluate the new offerings on their own merits.

 

[imatoad]

BostonRob is right, I've spent many years in the hospitality/resort industry, and this is not only common, but normal practice, the more you pay, the more you play. In fact, I can't believe Disney hasn't done something like this much sooner. I've worked in the AC casino industry for a long time, and reward for better players is simply the way the industry works, the more money you gamble, the more comps. and perks are made available to you. There's no right or wrong, fair or unfair, about it, this is the way it is. Do people pay considerably higher air fare in first class for the same size seats, same food, and treatment on a flight? Nope.

 

[#1 TITANS FAN]

After reading all of this, I've come to one conclusion: The Magic Kingdom is the one place left in this world where I shouldn't have to experience a lesson in proper corporate operating procedures according to the principles of social economic Darwinism. Why fix a system that not only works well, but treats everybody as an equal once they go through the turnstile. It's a cliche, but I can't help but think that's the way Walt would have wanted it.

 

[Miss Inga Depointe]

They probably should have done it in the beginning of fast pass or not at all. There will be a lot of resentment, however illogical it is.

Of course WDW has the right to offer what tons businesses (WDW is a business, after all, not your favorite cousins in Florida) perks to loyal customers just like other businesses already do.

 

[bicker]

That's one frustating cliche, though. To me, it translates into people deliberately deciding to be dissatisfied.

As someone who designs a product for sale, I grin-and-bear it when a customer gets angry (!) with me, for no other reason than because the product I offer isn't the one they want to buy. I recognize that they're just frustrated that they cannot find anyone willing to offer what they want, and therefore want to try to make someone else feel responsible for their own expectations. I believe that's how Walt would feel about many of the concerns being expressed about "Pay for Play".

 

[Miss Inga Depointe]

That's one frustating cliche, though. To me, it translates into people deliberately deciding to be dissatisfied.

Well said, and I might add that it is complicated in this case by people who have confused the relationship between WDW and visitors to WDW as WDW and friends instead of customers of WDW.

 

[#1 TITANS FAN]

One of the things that attracts me as a customer to give my business to Disney is the high level of customer service offered to me in the parks regardless to whether I'm staying at the Grand Floridian or the Travelodge on 192. That principle of equality is important to me and a lot of other loyal Disney customers; whether it reflects the way of the real world or not. A large part of Disney's allure is creating a fantasy where magic can happen. "I'm sorry son, but since that family can afford a nicer hotel than us, they get to experience a little more magic than us."

 

[bicker]

It's not a question of violating a law or a promise. I never said that.

Great, thanks for the clarification.

I simply am giving my opinion that it doesn't seem fair to offer better "park" perks to guests staying at deluxe resorts. I've explained the basis of my assessment many times. Some simply don't agree with it, and that's fine. Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that you feel it isn't fair based on your personal sense of what you want fairness to be, rather than on any reflection of society's general perspective on the issue. I can surely respect that. I'm sorry for my earlier confusion regarding your comments: I had thought you were implying that there was some innate or general unfairness in the changes being discussed.

There is surely no reason to believe that everyone will like things to work the same way, within a society -- with respect to anything, really. Indeed, many folks in society would object to the entirety of Walt Disney World, solely on the grounds that Disney is a commercial enterprise in a capitalist society -- because their personal sense of fairness doesn't allow for commercial capitalism. Though that's a far more extreme view than most people hold, it's surely respectable as a belief system.

Thanks for the discussion... I'm heading out for the weekend so I may miss some replies.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Miss Inga says : Of course WDW has the right to offer what tons businesses (WDW is a business, after all, not your favorite cousins in Florida) perks to loyal customers just like other businesses already do.

I agree here.....never said they didn't have the right . But on the same hand, they will be dealing with the impact of this. I think it's the customer that visits yearly or even more often that will feel most betrayed by Disney over this. The AP holders......the DVC Members who come year after year and work all year just to give Disney their hard-earned money. I think it's a portion of these folks who will begin to rethink where they spend their money. AP holders may decide not to renew and vacation elsewhere......DVC Members may decide to venture offsite more (Universal, Sea World etc). FL Residents......wouldn't blame them for staying away more often as well.

Bicker says : people prefer Cola X to Cola Y, but will pay more for Cola Y anyway -- that's customer loyalty, and the higher the premium, the more loyalty is indicated.

With all due respect to this statement, I understand completely what you're saying. But something has to be said for the dedicated loyal fans (customers/guests) who return every year (or several times a year) consistantly for decades even. Isn't their loyalty worth something to Disney vs the customer who pays big bucks for the GF maybe twice in a 10 year period ? Or the Poly concierge guest who may be staying there as a once in a lifetime trip ? I would think Disney would value the family that visits twice a year, every year for 10 years consistantly and stays at POR somewhat ?

Miss Inga says : by people who have confused the relationship between WDW and visitors to WDW as WDW and friends instead of customers of WDW.

I don't think people are confused about anything with all due respect. I feel loyal Disney guests (those that return year after year many times over the last decade+) are just savvy. They will perceive this new FP system (should it take effect) as a direct insult to their faithful patronage over the years and perhaps decide to change the way they vacation and spend their money. I feel the guests that visit every 3-5 years may not care one way or another, but it's the die-hard fans like we see on these boards and many others that will react most to a change in this policy.

Bicker says : Not that it matters to the rest of it, but what evidence is there of of that?

Oh, of course I realize this is all hypothetical at this point. Just figured we were debating and hashing out the pros and cons of the "what ifs" here

Bicker says : Putting that aside, FastPass is relatively new. How "digestible" was it to folks who's preferred touring approach to Walt Disney World would have them arriving at the parks in the late afternoon (when, on the busiest days, all the FastPasses are already gone)? Change is normal. Change is standard practice.

I feel the FP system has been around long enough for most people to value it as a perk (it's listed all over the internet/guidebooks/TA's tell their customers about it/Disney promotional ads etc) and as I mentioned earlier, I really feel it's the very loyal guests who will be most impacted by this. The customer who travels to WDW once every 3-5+ years probably won't bat more than an eyelash at this change.

Bicker says : Relatively few guests are passionate enough about any service provider to take service offering changes personally. Most take it in stride, and evaluate the new offerings on their own merits.

I don't know....guess I'm one of those diehards that considers myself a consistantly loyal customer (visit anywhere from 1-3 times a year since 1994). I feel pretty strongly about where my money goes. When Disney changed their AP renewal system, after years of being AP holders, we switched over to Hoppers. We preferred the AP's when they clock started clicking on the year use from time of first activation---not when the policy was changed to reflect that the clock would start at the moment of renewal. They lost me as an AP customer. Now with the new DVC discount as of Jan '05, I may just consider getting them again this year. But if the FP system is removed, it will alter our plans to visit during those busy summer months because there's no way we're standing in 90+ min lines in 90+ degree heat. The FP's were the only way we could enjoy ourselves during the busy times. It just doesn't make sense to subject ourselves to heat/crowds/long lines during the summer without this perk. It turns out to be a waste of a Hopper day. We've experienced this before. Felt like we wasted 1 full day off a Hopper and maybe got to do 3 rides/attractions the entire day due to crowds/lines/temps. We will perhaps knock down our 1-3 yearly visits to 1. I feel others will react similarily. Will it impact Disney enough to care about this....not sure.....as time will tell over the years ? Disney may end up missing the business of that loyal consistant customer who stays in the moderates (i.e.)
I respect everyone's opinions/viewpoints/speculations, but this is just the way I feel as a pretty loyal guest over the last decade+.

 

[Miss Inga Depointe]

I don't think people are confused about anything with all due respect. I feel loyal Disney guests (those that return year after year many times over the last decade+) are just savvy. They will perceive this new FP system (should it take effect) as a direct insult to their faithful patronage over the years and perhaps decide to change the way they vacation and spend their money. I feel the guests that visit every 3-5 years may not care one way or another, but it's the die-hard fans like we see on these boards and many others that will react most to a change in this policy.

Maybe you aren't confused, but when people start talking about it not being as "magical" then I think they are confused. We are paying for the "magic". I know we don't like to think of it like that way, but it's a commodity, bought and sold, pure and simple. We get more "magic" for more $$$ in so many ways at WDW.

 

[IwasatWDWforamonth]

I've got to say that's the first time I've ever heard that strategy. It would seem to me that you could rent storage space on International Drive much cheaper than to use a Value room as your closet. But anyway, it still doesn't add up to more money than a Deluxe. At peak season, the Values are about $110/night and the Mods are about $195/night. The Deluxes run from $289 to over $800/per night, but the vast majority of deluxe rooms are over $400, which easily exceeds the cost of a Value and a Mo
derate.

If increased fastpasses becomes a feature of the Deluxe resorts, people just have to accept it, whether or not it seems fair. The AKL doesn't have boat rentals, even though some of the Moderates do? Is that fair? Fair has nothing to do with it. Each hotel offers its own amenities. You decide what you want and you make your decision based on that. If Fastpass benefits are added to Deluxe resorts, that will just be something else for people to consider.

Howdy,
We stay an average 25 to 30 nights on property it really does add up to more than a week at a deluxe, and we kept the value room to avoid having to waste time moving our luggage, strange I know but if you saw the stuff I bring, I realize a deluxe would average somewhere around $12,000 so if someone was staying at a deluxe for 30 nights they surely would be paying more than I am. am I willing to pay more for my room for some added perk that I may or may not use ? thats a great big NO.