Fast Pass to become "Pay for Play"?

[Sk8Leigh]

But my tickets still cost the same price as yours do!!! If this goes through, the message Disney is sending is this "We don't care how much you spend on tickets, that isn't enough. Unless you are staying on our property and giving us even more money, you will be penalized by having to wait in line for everything while others can breeze by in the fp line." NOT FAIR!

With the huge cavaet of "We don't know what they might do with this, if anything", I think it would probably be more like a reward for staying on site, not a punishment for not staying on-site. IMO, you would probably still be able to get FPs if you were off-site, but not only would you be able to get them if you were on-site, but you might get one or two extra and be able to schedule them. Something like that. So you wouldn't be losing anything if you were off-site (although there might be decreased availabilty, but that depends on crowds and a lot of factors anyway), but you would get a bonus for being on-site. I think it would be good to somehow tie it to total spending, including restaurants and souvineers, rather than just level of hotel, because some people just don't want or need a better class of hotel than value or moderate, but they still spend a lot. But I don't see where there's a problem with giving a bonus for staying on-site.

It is the Walt Disney World Resort, the hotels are part of the overall complex, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to tie it all together. And I think if Disney does make changes, it will probably be a lot better than people are fearing. It's not like they want to make people mad!

 

[cobbler]

I think it would be good to somehow tie it to total spending, including restaurants and souvineers, rather than just level of hotel, because some people just don't want or need a better class of hotel than value or moderate, but they still spend a lot. But I don't see where there's a problem with giving a bonus for staying on-site.

See this would be bad in a sense too. Not horrible but how would they track this? Give you a card to have scanned when you check in or something. That is another card to carry around and potentially lose too. You have your tickets, room keys, photopass card and credit cards already.

I would so forget to use it half the time because I even forget to whip out my AP for the discounts at times. And then it goes to a problem if you have them charge it to your room being that the different levels of hotels only allot you a certain amount.

I think tracking spending for fast passes would cost more money than it is actually worth.

 

[lllovell]

If this goes through, Disney is going to make a lot of people very unhappy. I love Disney but I don't stay on property because I also enjoy Seaworld, Universal and I-Drive attractions. You can bet I am spending as much as people that stay in Disney, I am just spending it at a variety of places instead. Our vacations both still cost $$$!!! As many people have said, park tickets all cost the same whether you are staying inside Disney or not so why should fp be distributed differently? DH and I use FP for almost every ride we do and I must say that if this is implemented, I won't be frequenting Disney nearly as much. This would turn it into two parks in one, one for the people staying on property and another for those who aren't. Disney should not be about dividing people like that. Yes I know they need to pay their bills, etc. but with all the money they take in, I'm sure their exec's have no problem paying their own bills. Hoping Disney drops this idea and fast....

Renee

You are the person they are trying to draw in to staying on-site. It won't work for you (based on our guesses) but it will probably work for many others. I still say that the level of FP service will not drop below the current "average" for the value resorts and will only go up for the others. Its not even so much about having EXTRA FPs to me, its about being able to TIME them so that we dont have to get to the parks super early if we want to sleep in and yet we know we will be able to ride our favorite attractions.

 

[Acklander]

I think tracking spending for fast passes would cost more money than it is actually worth.

Tracking spending habits may cost more, but it would be a bonanza of information for Big Brother. By giving all guests (on site and off) one card to process with ALL their Disney spending, and using additional fast passes as bait, Disney would more than make up for the initial costs with marketing information. If they are aware that you and your family comes for vacation every February and spends $5,000 for each visit, they will then be sending pin codes that you can use only in May to see if they can get an extra trip out of you. Or, when you hear the guest standing at guest services demanding one thing or another, they can tell at a quick glance how much magic they're willing to create for this guest, and how much magic they've already received.
I don't think Disney would actually do this, but don't dismiss the possibility of the fast passes being handed out to those who actually spend more based on the fact that it would cost too much. What they would get out of it, is much more valuable than the costs.

 

[Synonymous]

What a waste of time, energy and angst this whole thing is. In my opinion, Jim Hill was just being a troll when he started this. There are absolutely no facts involved, at all, in any part of this discussion. Do you realize that Disney may have patented this technology so that no one ELSE could ever do it, without having any intention of doing it themselves? It could also be done to protect their options in the future, even though they have no intention of using it now, so that noone else can jump in and patent technology Disney MIGHT, SOMEDAY, decide they need for SOMETHING.

I think Jim Hill is just mad at being kicked out of the park last month. He created this "controversy" out of thin air.

 

[PrincessMelissa]

Hi all!
Okay, okay.... I admit to not reading all 17 pages of this discussion but I have found it completely interesting. It made me remember a couple of months ago when I had a friend come in town, he went to guest services to pick up his tickets and the CM was super nice and the transaction went well. He came back and showed me these 2 gold tickets that the CM said were all day fastpasses and we did not have to give them up when we enter a ride, just flash them and the CM will let us through. We were unsure about this, (never having heard of it before) because we thought of the people in the Peter Pan line who have been waiting for 90 minutes and we wondered why we even received them. My friend said the CM said it was something "new" they were trying. I never used mine and he only used his a couple of times- we felt guilty. Oh and by the way, he was staying at Pop.
If someone else has mentioned this, accept my apologies and I promise to read all 17 pages of posts next time!

 

[BostonRob]

So far this a crazy confusing idea,
We spend a lot more per trip than most staying in a deluxe resort, either staying at a value for the whole trip spliting between value and moderates, in fact one trip my mom and I had 2 rooms kept our room at the value for our luggage, while we stayed at a moderate.
Yet people at the deluxes would have more perks, really doesnt seem right to me,

I've got to say that's the first time I've ever heard that strategy. It would seem to me that you could rent storage space on International Drive much cheaper than to use a Value room as your closet. But anyway, it still doesn't add up to more money than a Deluxe. At peak season, the Values are about $110/night and the Mods are about $195/night. The Deluxes run from $289 to over $800/per night, but the vast majority of deluxe rooms are over $400, which easily exceeds the cost of a Value and a Mo
derate.

If increased fastpasses becomes a feature of the Deluxe resorts, people just have to accept it, whether or not it seems fair. The AKL doesn't have boat rentals, even though some of the Moderates do? Is that fair? Fair has nothing to do with it. Each hotel offers its own amenities. You decide what you want and you make your decision based on that. If Fastpass benefits are added to Deluxe resorts, that will just be something else for people to consider.

 

[BostonRob]

Hi all!
Okay, okay.... I admit to not reading all 17 pages of this discussion but I have found it completely interesting. It made me remember a couple of months ago when I had a friend come in town, he went to guest services to pick up his tickets and the CM was super nice and the transaction went well. He came back and showed me these 2 gold tickets that the CM said were all day fastpasses and we did not have to give them up when we enter a ride, just flash them and the CM will let us through. We were unsure about this, (never having heard of it before) because we thought of the people in the Peter Pan line who have been waiting for 90 minutes and we wondered why we even received them. My friend said the CM said it was something "new" they were trying. I never used mine and he only used his a couple of times- we felt guilty. Oh and by the way, he was staying at Pop.
If someone else has mentioned this, accept my apologies and I promise to read all 17 pages of posts next time!

Wait. Let me get this straight. You were given some experimental gold ticket ALL DAY FASTPASSES and you didn't use them because you felt GUILTY?

 

[Lewisc]

Wait. Let me get this straight. You were given some experimental gold ticket ALL DAY FASTPASSES and you didn't use them because you felt GUILTY?

I assume the little smiley thing means her post is a joke. I'm not good at interpreting them.

Treating different theme park guests, that basically have the same admission price options, differently might be considered wrong or unfair.

Once you accept the concept of giving FP perks based on staying on-site then your really don't have grounds to complain if Disney goes to the next level and bases your extra FP's on your resort class. If Disney decides to treat, during normal park operating hours, some guests paying the same admission charge differently than others than it's no less fair if they go further and base it on what resort you're staying at or the discount status of your room rate.

It would make sense to base it on your package status. Book a package based on rack room, undiscounted park passes and MYW Dining and you get extra FPs.

Jovidan--Your example doesn't hold water. Assume the offsite guest is paying $300/week for an 2 bedroom condo via sky auction. Assume those same guests need 2 or 3 rooms in a value resort at $200 or $300 per night. They're paying the exact same price for their theme park tickets and really don't have the option of staying on-site.

You could make a better case that the family paying $100 for a value resort could afford to pay $150 for a moderate or even $199 for AKL or WL more than the offsite family moving on-site.

 

[Autumngirl]

Hi all!
I never used mine and he only used his a couple of times- we felt guilty.

The next time some one hands you those passes, could you pass them off to me... I would not feel the least little bit of guilty in using them!

 

[lntsmom]

planning. I'd know to leave Disney in any form off my list!

It's not that I don't understand the concept of the free market and price determinants of demand, it's that I refuse to pay confidence money to be provided a service that I didn't need and don't want.

What Disney will do, should they pursue this, is set us a within-park class system. I'm sure they've taken note from Bank of America.

While our culture equates a person's value with their bank balance, the reality is, there is a difference between "fair" and "just". Of course it's "fair" to ration rides by placing a premium price on them. Is it just? Does the child of a single mother who brings in $30,000 as an office manager really need to stand aside and let the child of a married couple who are bringing in $70,000 or the child of an executive bringing in $150,000 a year?

It all looks good when you're talking economics. It tanks in a BIG way when you're talking humanities!

 

[jade1]

Its not even so much about having EXTRA FPs to me, its about being able to TIME them so that we dont have to get to the parks super early if we want to sleep in and yet we know we will be able to ride our favorite attractions.

Thats us also, would we like more available as DVC members-sure, at least some days. But the convenience and planning like you say are what we would like. Kids could sleep until noon, catch some sun at the pool and then head over for TOT FP at 4PM and RNR at 5PM. That would be plenty for us. Great idea, wonder if they are reading these boards-I made a similar post last June on the Theme Parks board.

 

[lllovell]

I could actually see Disney implementing a special Fastpass for all resort guests staying on Disney property. To me, that is a perk. Disney could get away with saying "If you can spend $60 a night to stay offsite, you could have spent $80 a night to stay onsite at a Value. Therefore, you had the REASONABLE option of staying onsite and taking advantage of the new fastpass system." However, for Disney to say "If you can spend $80 a night to stay on property at a Value, then you could spend $300 a night to stay at a Deluxe and take advantage of the new fastpass system for Deluxe guests", would be completely unreasonable.

To give someone staying at a $300 night resort more fastpasses than someone staying at a $100 night resort, when their park tickets cost the same, is just wrong. Plain and simple.

We dont see it as wrong because most of us disagree that the park tickets are truly equal. You get what you pay for. Want extra perks, you buy them. Can afford to buy the maximum tickets, you save more money than the person that can only afford the basic length of visit ticket.

Also, I disagree with you (and have from the beginning) that somehow the Value and Moderate guests are going to get screwed here. You seem convinced that they will be and that this program will be incredibly unfair because everyone isn't rich. It just won't happen like that. The ones that will be most effected will be people staying off site. How would it benefit Disney to not offer them good "perks" for switching over to a value? It wouldn't. Their goal is to fill hotel rooms so there is NO WAY they are going to implement a program that would make people staying at Value and Moderate resorts feel like second hand citizens.

 

[pbharris4]

I'd be pissed if FP changed..or you had to pay for it. Wait...I could understand if they limit how many times you can ride a ride like say 2-3x/day or something, but nothing else. It really shouldn't matter what hotel you are staying at. I am a DVC member I gave them my $$$ up front (I know, it works better for me in the long run, but I still gave them $$$ upfront) for lodging and we are (again) giving them $$ upfront for a 10 day PH, NO Exp. Magic plus ticket. (Yes, works for us in the long run again). Going in the summer you BARELY get to go on any rides. Personally, I do not think you get your money's worth during the summer (except for those Fpasses). I'd switch to going to WDW in late Jan/early Feb. when the weather is nice, the crowds are very low, and my kids can ride the rides w/o having to use FP. IMO, you really get more for your money during the slower times.

 

[SJUGuy]

This is great. The rumors from the post seem to have convinced many people to never go to Disney again. We should spread more of these rumors and then no one will have to worry about FP's ever again, because there will be no lines. So just keep this post going and the only FP change we will see is the elimination of it because of lack of interest in the parks all together.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Your first point is true - Park tickets may NOT be equal. HOWEVER, everyone DOES have the opportunity to PURCHASE these extra perks. So, in other words, someone staying at Pop Century could have the exact same ticket as someone staying at the Grande Floridian.

I'm not saying the Value and Moderate guests are going to get screwed. I'm just saying, it's not fair. Alot of people feel that way - Not just me. I've said several times, if Disney was to offer a specialized fastpass program ONLY to ALL Disney Resort guests, I wouldn't see that as being unfair. But, for Disney to offer a guest staying at the Grande Floridian extra Fastpass benefits that they wouldn't offer to a guest staying at Pop Century, doesn't seem fair to me. Disney ALWAYS has had certain benefits for ALL Resort guests, such as E-Ride Nights and Extra Magic Hours. It's always been equal, regardless of what resort you were staying in. Now, for Disney to change something that has been offered equally to ALL resort guests, to benefit the Deluxe resort guests more, would be unfair.

Your argument does not hold water, because Disney currently offers services and amenities to guests based on the resort in which they choose to stay. If you stay at the Values, you don't get the cute little Mickey soaps and shampoos, but you do if you stay at a Deluxe or Home Away From Home resort. Beach/Yacht Club offer their guests SAB pool featuring an awesome slide, lazy river and sand bottom area. Other resort guests don't get to swim there. AKL offers the Sunrise or Sunset Safari -- but ONLY to concierge level guests at AKL.

Disney does not offer equal access to ALL resort guests to ALL benefits. Many benefits are geared to the resort you select. Funny -- I don't hear anyone screaming how this is unfair. (Well, maybe except for those who want to pool-hop... but I digress...)

 

[jarestel]

Well, since we're discussing something that hasn't been announced, may not ever be implemented, and even if implemented there are currently no implementation details known, I will put on my swami hat and dive into the prediction pool nevertheless. And from the length of this thread, it seems I have plenty of company in that pool.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the number of fast passes given out in a day calculated by how many guests Disney estimates a certain ride can accomodate, taking standby lines into account. So FPs aren't like money, where they can just print more to accomodate a new program. If more FPs are given out to a select group of guests, there will be that many less available for "general" use. So if the park closes at 9:00 PM, Disney won't give out FPs that would clog the queues until midnight. So it stands to reason that someone will lose out in this deal, and it just might be non-delux and/or off-site staying guests. If they find themselves more frequently relegated to the standby lines, because the FPs are more difficult for them to get, this might not be good. Granted, Disney wants to fill their delux resorts, but if they end up doing it at the expense of their moderate and value resorts ( which provide far more rooms than the deluxes do ), then they just might find that basing their business model on high priced guests ( delux ) versus high volume guests ( mods and values ) might present some problems.

If the non-deluxe or off-site staying guests find that their wait times for rides are increasing due to the new fast pass system, it's very likely that some, if not many, may decide WDW is no longer a destination at which they want to spend their vacation dollars. After all, the prospect of spending a fairly large sum of money to buy park tickets for a family of 4 and then spending a couple of hours or more in line just to get on the popular attractions isn't something most people would consider as money well spent.

If Disney is considering throwing away a segment of their repeat business, this could be a gamble. Of course, they could always toss out the program if it backfired by saying "we listened to our guests and are now giving you what you want" and then offer a bunch of discounted packages to get people excited about returning. But there is such a thing as killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

As an addendum, for those who point to the restructuring of the park ticket prices as a good thing, - MYW - ( in essence, removing free perks from the price of the tickets and giving one the "choice" of paying for them or not ), remember the current low prices were put in place to make this easier to swallow. It won't be long until the park ticket prices float back up to where they were before losing park hopping and good forever perks. So where's the good deal when that happens?

Removing swami hat and replacing with mickey ears now.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Again, admission to the THEME PARKS is NO LESS for a guest staying at Pop Century than it is to a guest staying at Grande Floridian. So, why should those staying at the Grande Floridian get perks those staying at Pop Century wouldn't get, INSIDE THE PARKS?

Not true. I could stay at the GF and actually pay LESS for my park admission today than someone staying at Pop Century. Or I could end up paying MORE... it all depends on the ticket add-ons I choose to purchase or take a pass on. Park admission is no longer the "great equalizer" that it once was.

As for why someone staying at the GF should get more than someone staying at Pop inside the parks... because the person at GF is paying more to come to Disney in the first place. Pay for play... it works everywhere else.

 

[Lewisc]

No, I understand that. My example was based on the only experience I have to go on - My own. My point being, if Disney said to me, "OK, you've got 1 room at the Days Inn for $60 a night. You could have gotten 1 room at Pop Century for $80 a night." That would be a good point. But for Disney to say to me "OK, you've got a room at Pop Century for $80 a night. You could have a room at Polynesian for $250." That would make no sense. Choosing to stay off property by choice to visit other attractions is far different than staying on property at a Value Resort because you can't afford $250 a night for lodging.

Real numbers, the family renting a 2 bedroom condo for $300/week from skyauction is paying $43 /night vs $220 /night for 2 rooms in a value resort, including tax. The numbers get worse if you assume the family needs 3 rooms in a value resort. Rack rate in August is $99 for the value resorts and $199 for AKL and WL.

Once Disney decides to give prefential treatment based on where you stay there isn't any logical reason not to base the treatment on more than just on or off site.

 

[babyblue61]

First, we don't know if this is going to happen. Second, how are people going to be priced out of the parks? If this happens, it's not something that people have to purchase. Similarly, they don't have to stay at onsite resorts. These are choices - options - no one is telling you that you have to do it. In addition, Fast Pass is an added bonus, and yes it has been open to everyone since its introduction, but the point is it's a bonus and not part of the basic service Disney provides. Typically, you would wait in a line and when you got to the front, you would board the ride. Further, coming up with things like this is how Disney makes money and thrives. This isn't "discriminatory" - I have no idea why that word has been tossed around. I fully expect that if I'm shelling out $5000 or more on my vacation for my DBF and me, we will get perks that others will not and I welcome the opportunity to be able to get more of these and even pay more for them if I have to.