Fast Pass question / disagreement

[jgmklmhem]

I would think it would have to lay at the descretion of the CM manning the line. If a bunch of FPer's had just shown up for their correct time and the standby line was long I could see them saying nope you missed your slot, but if the FP line was pretty vacant I could see them saying go ahead. I just would not count on being able to use an expired FP.

 

[HaleyB]

Originally posted by kaygela
if some people decide to just gather fastpasses and use them whenever they could spoil a good thing for everyone. We need to just all be considerate.

You can't just collect FPs. While it is possible to have more than one at a time, it is very limited by the system. The system will not allow you to really abuse it.

 

[goofyernmost]

OK, you've convinced me that FastPass is the best thing since the discovery of Penicillin. I just love thinking of myself first and walking by all those idiots in the standby line because after all they could have gotten a FastPass as well if they hadn't been so stupid as to not get there in time to get one. What? Do you mean that they run out after a while and are no longer available? Why, yes! That is what I mean! Oh Well, what the heck. I don't care if they have to stand in line for hours as long as I get in first, cause I'm special.

And now, the very system that was designed to get some people in at DESIGNATED times is being undermined by smiling, let's not rock the boat, CM's bent on catering to a few Class "A" personalities and ignoring the rest. We'll call them Eisners Happy Helpers for now.

And you say that Disney is happy, nay, almost giddy about the system? Well, it wouldn't be the first mistake they have made in recent years would it?

By the way, I have as much right to not like something as you do to like it. My opinion isn't going to change anything. Actual usage will determine if it is to continue or not.

Will the few that get in early make up for the many that don't? Will the few that return be able to pay enough money to make up for the many that do not return because they found the experience frustrating? Will the hastles that Disney experiences because of the system eventually create a situation that makes them decide that the positives are not outweighing the negatives? Only time will tell but believe me abuse of the intent of the system will NOT help it be a winner.

Anyway, I must discover why I always let myself get sucked into this particular topic. I guess my dislike for FastPass is so strong that I can't resist being the object of everyones wrath! So continue to use Fastpass for as long as you can and be sure to abuse the system at every available opportunity and perhaps it will disappear like Horizons, Journey, World of Motion, 20,000 Leagues, Mr. Toad, Alien and so on. Only this time it will be for the better.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by HaleyB
You can't just collect FPs. While it is possible to have more than one at a time, it is very limited by the system. The system will not allow you to really abuse it.

While you are correct in that you can't gather a whole bunch of FP's at a single time (ie. you can't have 6 FP's in hand at 9:00 in the morning), it doesn't mean that you couldn't accumulate half a dozen or more FP's with a single ticket between the hours of 9 and 3. Using all of those later in the day could certainly be considered an abuse, IMHO.

The FP system is not only a way for Disney to help limit people's time spent in lines, it also serves to distribute and regulate crowds and traffic in certain areas. Collecting expired FP's for later use would seem to defeat this purpose. Instead of being in the FP line when Disney intended you to be there you might be making the line longer for others on another ride. Then in the evening you would be increasing lines for others on the attractions you hold the expiref FP for as you would be in the FP line when Disney didn't intend for you to be there. Doing this just defeats the planned flow the system was designed to create.

Apparently you can use expired FP's at will. That doesn't mean you should. I really was tempted to do so last week but I didn't (well.......to be honest I was 5 minutes late for my RnR return time, but I held other expired FP's that I never used). I really hope I can resist allowing the temptation to use expired FP's to turn me into a hypocrit on future trips because it really is a good way to selfishly limit your own time in lines.

 

[justhat]

I think stocking up on FPs all day to use at night would really be a waste of time. The time that you would spend walking from place to place to get FPs that you don't plan on using for hours seems like it wouldn't be worth it to me. I guess there might be some people who do this, but they must also be waiting in lots of standby lines the whole day, which would eat more time than if they just used their FPs normally. So I'm thinking this isn't a common practice. I know in our case, we almost always use our FPs during the allotted time, aside from TT breaking down and eating lunch and missing our BTMRR time that I already mentioned. We did take a few home from February that we used in October, but mostly because they were for rides I couldn't ride now since I'm pregnant so my fiancé used them for himself. He could have actually ridden twice if he went by himself, but since he wanted me to come in line with him, I had to use mine too even though I wasn't going to ride, but it was nice to not have to get a FP for something I couldn't ride anyway.

Regarding people who can't get a FP because they already ran out for the day, I don't fell all that bad for them since it's bound to happen to everyone at least once. I have been to Epcot many times and not been able to get a FP for TT, but it didn't make me hate WDW or the FP system, since I could just as easily go to another ride and get a FP there. We were there over NYE last year, and even at like 10pm they still had FPs available for BTMRR and Splash, so even during the most crowded time of the year we were still able to get a FP for at least some rides when we wanted them. So yes, it does stink to have to wait in a standby line when all the FPs are gone for the day, but we've all done it before so I don't think it's really discriminating against anyone.

 

[HaleyB]

Well I didn't really know this was such a hot topic. I don't have any FP experiance in WDW, but I have had AP at Disney Land many years. The FP system has reduced our wait times overall in that park (even when we are stand by guests). It may be that the system works better there because it is just not the same scale of a park as WDW is. Fewer people and fewer rides overall. Or it could be some people just don't like the system. That's fine with me, I wish more people didn't like the PS res. system.

 

[peanut67]

I havent used fp at wdw as yet, but have used it in DP and thought it was wonderful, I couldnt understand the people queuing for sooooooo long when they could have got a FP...excellent idea

 

[Badger Brent]

As I slink in the corner of the DIS themepark and attractions forum, I have to admit that we did this very same horrible act of going in after our time expired. Beat me with a stick, take away my mickey santa ears!! Lighten up just a little goofyernmost.... We were delayed from a PS seating, but didn't reveal this to the CM. As a whole, I personally don't think the FP system is being abused (except by me). I like it when we can fit it into our schedule. I too can't see running around gathering FP's and hogging them for later that night. A lot of this is tongue in cheek, so don't flame me too bad. This sounds like a good thing for the debate board now.

 

[manchurianbrownbear]

goofyernmost, I can't say that I agree with you, I LOVE FP, but I do enjoy your well-crafted replies, and I admire you're willingness to stick to your guns in the face of insurmountable opposition!

 

[lentesta]

Note: the following discussion assumes we're not talking about missing a FASTPASS window because of a ride breakdown or really inefficient restaurant service. That's understandable.

Stepping up to the soapbox now.

Disney allocates a certain amount of each ride's capacity to FASTPASS. For some attractions, this can be as much as 60% of its capacity. The amount of each attraction's capacity allocated to FASTPASS is generally set so that the standby lines don't get insanely long.

By using a FASTPASS after it has expired, we reduce (by a small amount, granted) the capacity available to standby riders. That is, Disney assumes that X percent of capacity would be available at a certain time for standby riders, and allocated FASTPASSes accordingly. By using an expired FASTPASS, X percent is no longer available; it's now X% minus us. That increases the amount of time the standby folks have to wait in line. So the standby folks wait in line more because we're not willing to play by the rules that say we've got an hour to use the FASTPASS. The whole "we'll use it if we can get away with it" debate misses this point: other people lose if expired FASTPASSes are honored.

To head off the "it's their own fault for waiting in the standby line" argument: there are plenty of valid reasons for waiting in the standby line of a FASTPASS attraction.

And the "it only increases the standby wait slightly" rationalization makes no sense. Individual investors may have only lost a few pennies per share in the latest mutual fund scandal. Multiplied by lots of investors, though, and someone's stolen the equivalent of a nice condo in the Virgin Islands. It's not the amount that's important.

Stepping down from the soapbox now.

Len

 

[jenniferhouston2]

Len,

You are correct that using a FP late burdens the standby line by using a bit of the rides stand by capacity AT THE TIME you use the FP.

However, by not using the FP during the window, you are HELPING the standby line DURING the FP window...because some FP capacity is not being used, thus increasing the standby capacity.

My point is doesnt it all even out over a day's worth of time? Isn't it all a zero sum gain? (Maybe the correct answer depends on when you are in the standby line: when a FP user misses a FP window, or when a FP user attempts to use it late)

However, despite my questioning your math, I am one to follow the rules. I agree that it is ideal if everyone would also and only violate the FP window due to breakdowns.

J

 

[Chicago526]

goofyernmost

Hey, calm down! You don't like fp, okay. Most of us don't get why, but yes you are entitled to your opion.

I do disagree that if a person misses their window, for whatever reason, asks a CM if it's okay to use anyway, and the CM says "yes go ahead" then it isn't abuse. If this happens several times and person begins to count on being able to use an expired fp, it still isn't abuse, how does a guest know it's against policy if a CM doesn't thell them so? It's Disney's fault for not making the CM's stick to the policy of cutting off at the end of the window. If all the CM's say "no", the number of people trying this would dry up in a hurry!

Does the fp system make a line longer overall? I don't think there is anyway to know for sure, as wait times fluctuate due to a number of reasons. I think overall, the wait would be the about the same. FP reduces the number of stand-by's, but then fp people are folded into the line at their come-back window, so all things being equal, a standby wait would be the same with or without the system. But I could be wrong, it's just the way I see it.

Is it a perfect system? No. But until Disney pulls it (unlikey as it is so popular) you can either boycott Disney, go to Disney and not use it, or figure out how to use it best to your own advantage like the rest of us and grin and bear it. Disney can't make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. No one can.

 

[CarnotaurDad]

Perhaps Disney has already taken into account that a certain % will not use the FP at the designated time and that it all evens out in the end....

What I mean is, that Disney has probably already figured out:

a) how many people will use the FP within the certain time

b) how many people will just not show up even though they had a FP

c) how many people will use the FP at a later point (either that day or even a later year).

Obviously, the % will change as the day goes on until, finally, they will run out of FPs.

Without knowing the numbers, it's hard to say if the system really is being abused or not. However, Disney probably assumes it's in their best interest to let the time thing slide because the number of people it affects must not be that big.

I think if too many people start abusing the FP return, they might enforce it more.

 

[NotUrsula]

"The FP system is not only a way for Disney to help limit people's time spent in lines, it also serves to distribute and regulate crowds and traffic in certain areas."

You left out the primary reason for the existence of the FP system: it was designed to increase revenue by getting guests out of ride lines and into shops and food outlets. Therefore, no matter how much anyone might dislike the system, as long as people are using their extra time to spend money, Disney isn't getting rid of the system anytime soon.

 

[nativetxn]

What do you say we get back to topic? The original poster asked the following questions:

1) Have you EVER been told your FP was invalid because you missed your return window?

2) If you are a CM, can you tell me if there is a policy on this?

Sounds like Fast Pass is an emotional topic. If you would like to debate whether fast pass is a good thing or a bad thing, feel free to post that topic on our debate board for further discussion.

Katholyn

 

[lentesta]

Hey jenniferhouston2,

Yeah, I'd thought of that. But the folks in the standby line that benefit from me not using the FASTPASS are not the same folks that are made to wait longer when I get to use an expired FASTPASS. So the burden is shifted from the group that should have waited slightly longer (one might even say they "agreed" to it, assuming they know how the FASTPASS system works), to a group that didn't have a reasonable expectation of me showing up. That second group is disadvantaged because I'm not willing to follow the rules.

I think it'd be presumptious to say it's okay to use an expired FASTPASS because the overall time spent in the standby line by everyone evens out. It's not up to us to shift extra time in line from one group to another.

I realize that in the overall scheme of things, using an expired FASTPASS isn't breaking the social compact. But still, fair is fair. I think this'd be an excellent topic for Dear Prudence to address.

Standing by,

Len

 

[steph73]

Who knew FP was such controversial thing?

I for one LOVE IT. With a bit of planning, we were able to ride at least twice as many rides utilizing FP. We were there in June and have two small kids, so it was definitely a plus for us.

My experiences with FP:

We did occasionally get dirty looks from people in the stand-by lines, which confused me. Most notably at Kilimanjaro Safaris - we even heard a few comments as we went by with a group of other FP holders. We assumed that the people were unaware of the FP system, as I know for a fact that at KS the FP's weren't depleted for the day.

The only time we were told that FP's were good for the entire day was when we went back to Space Mountain for our time slot and the ride was broke down - the CM told us that because of that, they would be honoring FP's dated that day for any time. We came back when SM opened back up a couple of hours later, and the FP wait was actually about 30 minutes or so. I would imagine that was because everyone who tried during the downtime came back as soon as they noticed it was running again. Still, it was quicker than the stand-by line. That was the only time we used a FP outside of the window - frankly, it never occurred to us to use one outside of the window.

At Test Track, the stand-by line was 2+ hours and the FP had been depleted for the day by the time we got there (we had been at MK that morning and just came over to Epcot for the late afternoon/evening). I was kinda bummed, but not at anyone in particular... except maybe myself for not considering the popularity of TT. So we didn't ride it at all. Next trip, I'll get a TT FP early!

Most of the time, FP worked beautifully for us and we averaged walking directly onto the ride to a wait of about 5-10 minutes. Every ride that offered it that we rode, we used FP.

 

[abwdreaming]

I am new to WDW and this Fast Pass system. Read some of this and am trying to understand. When you use a FP I think you then enter the ride from the Single rider line. So if there are several single riders than are you to ask them or just walk past them to the front of that line? Would that not make several people mad? Or is there a Normal wait line, a single rider line and then a FP line for all FP rides? Sorry, but i just dont get why you are all upset about FP and lines.

 

[Joyciemc]

abwdreaming, there is a separate line for Fastpass return. You show your ticket to a CM at the entrance, then give the ticket to another CM somewhere nearer to the boarding area. It works great.
I love FP, and since there is a window printed on the ticket, I think I will stick to it (we haven't missed any times yet, anyway).

 

[TexasAggie]

Who ever came up with FP should get Cast Member of the Century award. Yes, we love it!