Fast Pass Improvement Idea

[morethananyonex]

Lucky us.

So under such a system we get to spend loads of money (about $1000 return flight per person in economy) getting to Orlando in the first place, then spend more time staying at Disney (UK visitors tend to stay for 2 weeks minimum) with the accommodation costs to match and then we have to pay extortionate data roaming charges to have the same FP benefits as US visitors or make do with whatever's left under the old system.

I really can't see them ever going through with anything that required data usage in the parks, unless of course they're going to FINALLY install free wifi. But even then, there are people who don't take their phones on vacation, or simply don't have one (or a smart phone). As a Canadian, I feel your pain on the roaming charges, believe me.

The only way I could see an advanced FP system working is if it was restricted to onsite guests only and done with KTTW cards (and maybe even at the hotel only).

Even then, I think there's too many complications (like the data issue in this example) and it just wouldn't be worth it for them with all the hassle it would bring.

 

[jade1]

But, not as many.

The "headliners" run out far too fast already.

I agree, so reserving ahead would give everyone a shot-not just early arrivers. Plus if reserved users cant hit the park machines-that would be a lot less of a rush through the am. Why rush in if you have a 2PM TSM and 4PM RNR (and a 6PM TOT if 3 are allowed)?

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Are we back to giving fastpasses to onsite guests? As one who has stayed both onsite and offsite, I'll just say that I disagree like I always do. The current system is fair to everyone who paid a lot just to walk through those park gates and I'd like to see it stay the same.

I'm indifferent with respect to this idea. I only suggested that to get FP's ahead of time at home that you have an on-site reservation with theme park tickets linked to them including AP's, non-expiry tickets from prior trips and ticket brokers. Once at the park, I think the remaining FP's could be for anyone. This would be another incentive to stay on-site to reserve some FP's ahead of time.

Lucky us.

So under such a system we get to spend loads of money (about $1000 return flight per person in economy) getting to Orlando in the first place, then spend more time staying at Disney (UK visitors tend to stay for 2 weeks minimum) with the accommodation costs to match and then we have to pay extortionate data roaming charges to have the same FP benefits as US visitors or make do with whatever's left under the old system.

Why be so negative about it rather than suggest an alternative as I did earlier in the thread. Instead of having it tied to your phone, why not have a Kim Possible type device like they use in Epcot right now. That way, everyone has the same opportunity. Not everyone in the US has a data plan and surely not everyone in your party has a smart phone regardless if you live in Orlando or Ontario.

I would love a loyalty program but I'm not sure how your examples would work.

I was just trying to give examples from the Disney Cruise Line. I am open to any suggestions.

But, not as many.

Figure that TSM and Soarin' would be out of FP's at least an hour earlier, maybe sooner.

They can't change the ride capacity.

So true. On Disney Cruise Line, you can book certain high-demand excursions and Palo reservations ahead of time. If you are a repeat guest, you get to book before others. If you are a Gold or Platinum repeat guest, you get to book even earlier. However, in all cases, they leave reservations available for those who wait to book on the ship. I would see FP's being similar. yes, it will reduce the amount available at the parks each day. It will change everyone's touring strategies if something like this is done.

I'm not suggesting that Disney do this and I've even said I don't like the idea of having to preplan to far in advance. But if they do implement such a plan, I could see some type of preferential treatment given to those staying on-site or even to returning guests.

 

[morethananyonex]

Why be so negative about it rather than suggest an alternative as I did earlier in the thread. Instead of having it tied to your phone, why not have a Kim Possible type device like they use in Epcot right now. That way, everyone has the same opportunity. Not everyone in the US has a data plan and surely not everyone in your party has a smart phone regardless if you live in Orlando or Ontario.

In theory, that would be great. However, I just can't see something like that working smoothly in practice. First of all, you have the issue of Disney getting all the devices in the first place. Second, people already have issues with the extremely simple fastpass machines (and the whole concept) that exists now, I just see this making it worse and giving Disney more headaches.

Like I've said, all these ideas sound great to us, but how would Disney benefit from this?

 

[KSDisneyDad]

In theory, that would be great. However, I just can't see something like that working smoothly in practice. First of all, you have the issue of Disney getting all the devices in the first place. Second, people already have issues with the extremely simple fastpass machines (and the whole concept) that exists now, I just see this making it worse and giving Disney more headaches.

Like I've said, all these ideas sound great to us, but how would Disney benefit from this?

Good points. I was just trying to illustrate that just because someone has an idea that you don't like that it may help to suggest an alternative. I don't think it was the intent of the person who originally had the idea to exclude those living abroad or those without smart phones. Perhaps the idea won't work at all as it's too complicated. But as technology gets less expensive, perhaps there is an alternative that accomplishes some of the same ideas.

Your last sentence is absolutely correct. For any new idea to work, Disney has to see the benefit for them while at the same time making visits to WDW more enjoyable for the guests. That's why I could see them doing something to encourage more on-site visits or repeat guests. Both of those visitors add more to Disney's bottom line than those staying off-site for just one visit.

 

[Robo]

I agree, so reserving ahead would give everyone a shot-not just early arrivers.

What would happen at the magical "Zero Hour" of FP reservation availability?

Shades of trying to grab seat assignments on certain airlines 24 hours in advance.

Or like trying to nab ADR's for Fantasmic! DP's, or Candlelight Processional DP's, or Fireworks Cruises, or...

More fun on-line... for those who have access and the time... AT the right time.

 

[jayandstacey]

here's what would happen.

1. "but that ride is on the other side of the park, I don't want that ride why can't I have ....."

2. "why can't have I both?"

3. "we were already at Rafiki this morning you didn't tell us then now we have to go back again?"

4. and everyone else standing there would be upset FP's went from 5pm to gone with one person.

overall, you'd have a lot of ticked people because they didn't understand or didn't know how it worked.
And while alot of people have "smart phones" not everyone does. And this plan would require you to not only have that but have the nessessary programs.
Too many people would be left out of any chance.

The current system is simple...keep it simple.

Agreed that it would only help smart phone owners, but Disney is already feeding that beast.

To address the items
1. is an alert system and Disney already does that, feeding wait times to apps. Alerting that your fast pass is ready to use is just that - an alert of info that a person would have on their little ticket anyway.

2. Right now, the system restricts how many FPs you can have and that doesn't seem to cause many to say "but why can't I have both..." Adding this feature to an app-based system would simply be a clear, take it or leave it offer, if that ever made sense.

3. I wasn't clear about how the reward FP would work. The guest would have no idea when or how the 'prize' FP would come. Rather, as their actions helped with Disney crowd management, for instance, by spending 1/2 hour at Rifiki's during peak times, THEN they would get a surprise FP. There is no skin of anyone's back to do this - maybe the last 1/2 hour of FPs on a ride like EE are reserved for such give-aways, and they are given midday in the park to encourage people to stay all the way to closing. That's just an example, but my example doesn't require a hard choice like going back to Rafiki's just to earn the FP.

4. A person getting 100 FPs for a group is already upsetting people and is already taking 100 slots. By shifting them to the app, they get out of the way of the regular machines while still taking the same 100 spots they would have taken before. In fact, by not being at the machines, it is possible that a random person who walked up to the machines and WOULD have been behind the 100 FP person...is instead now getting their 1 FP BEFORE the person is able to procure 100 of them - putting them ahead.

I understand my app idea may not be perfect, but I don't believe your concerns would be the reason Disney could not do such a thing.

 

[jayandstacey]

Uh huh. So now FP only works for Americans with unlimited data plans. So, anybody not from the US either can't get FPs or have to pay excessive roaming charges on their phones.

I guess if you're a company that wants to alienate a large portion of your customers that would work but otherwise it's a non-starter.

Or Pal Mickey rises from the dead...through the magic of Apple sponsored embedded iPhones....

 

[jayandstacey]

I disagree..FP from home would a disaster.
People would snatch up dozens with different e-mails, different computers
but same group.
In the end only cheaters would end up with them then people who actually went to the parks and rides would only get there to find out FP's gone shortly after rope drop if not before.

I've seen this time and time again.
lots of web sites have online photo/video contests and many are the person with the most votes wins.
almost without fail they end up going to someone who cheated by using programs that allow them to get through the system or rig voting in some way.
So the prize (in this case FP) never goes to the deserving but to the cheater.
same thing would happen here.

I agree there's lots of danger in it and thus why my post focused on the protections Disney would have to provide.

I also noted that the FP would be tied to the ticket, just the way it is now. So no matter how many emails you created, you couldn't create more tickets. So I think that alone would solve most of the risk.

 

[morethananyonex]

Good points. I was just trying to illustrate that just because someone has an idea that you don't like that it may help to suggest an alternative. I don't think it was the intent of the person who originally had the idea to exclude those living abroad or those without smart phones. Perhaps the idea won't work at all as it's too complicated. But as technology gets less expensive, perhaps there is an alternative that accomplishes some of the same ideas.

Your last sentence is absolutely correct. For any new idea to work, Disney has to see the benefit for them while at the same time making visits to WDW more enjoyable for the guests. That's why I could see them doing something to encourage more on-site visits or repeat guests. Both of those visitors add more to Disney's bottom line than those staying off-site for just one visit.

I totally get what you were doing, but truthfully I just see some sort of complication arising with most solutions to "improve" the current FP system. I think the current system offers the closest they can come to equality and ease of use, and even with that said, people still have problems with both aspects of it now.

I can't see this system working without restricting it to reservation numbers only (if it were to be done in advance). There would be wayyyyy too much room for abuse.

And I agree with you that it would definitely benefit them by improving the value of the onsite resorts, but at the same time I would hate to see the reaction if they diminished the current system that is equal for everyone in favour of a system that completely excludes offsite guests.

 

[jayandstacey]

But, not as many.

Figure that TSM and Soarin' would be out of FP's at least an hour earlier, maybe sooner.

They can't change the ride capacity.

But as you often point out, o benevolent Robo, FP is all about who gets there first. Yes, less are available - but only because other guests got "there" first.

Having said that, any system (to me) should be open to any guest, not just on-site guests.

And so what does that mean? It means we turn FPs into something like the current ADR system - where the spoils will go to those who take the time to know the system and know precisely when to call and all that. It might benefit Disney in that to get a FP early (I propose) you have to already own your park tickets - and so Disney might get more to buy park tickets early.

I suspect the downside to the whole FP from home program is where to make it stop. If Disney implements it - does it eventually become impossible to get a FP in the park? What % should be allotted for home use vs. in park?

 

[jayandstacey]

As I've said, I think leave it alone.. Only change to take 1 machine at each location for "group" passes.
there's just something wrong with someone half the country away, or even half the park away getting a spot in line ahead of someone who took the time to walk to the ride.

Note that in my proposals:
- The "from home" would be severely restricted - essentially (IMHO) replacing some of the rope-drop first FP group, and maybe only give one late-day FP. I do NOT envision the ability to get multiple FPs from home.
- For the phone app, you'd still have to walk to the ride to 'qualify' to get a FP, unless you got one via prize or a trade, both of which Disney would choose how/when, based on real time crowd conditions. But to just get a regular FP, you still walk into the FP machine area, and only then does your phone 'open' the FP for you or your group.

 

[jade1]

What would happen at the magical "Zero Hour" of FP reservation availability?

Shades of trying to grab seat assignments on certain airlines 24 hours in advance.

Or like trying to nab ADR's for Fantasmic! DP's, or Candlelight Processional DP's, or Fireworks Cruises, or...

More fun on-line... for those who have access and the time... AT the right time.

Good question-I admit I don't know. I do know software is more amazing every day. Can only give some ideas at this point.

Maybe take every other FP that the current system distributes and allowing reservations on them-leaving the "in park" system as is-but now they would distribute twice as fast in theory, but since 1/2 of the FP's have already been "pre-reserved" there has to be a lot fewer guests heading into those lines (because 1-they already have passes for whenever, and 2-thier park pass wont allow any more). So its possible the FP's "in park" will distribute even slower than currently, plus the mad rush for FP's at rope drop has to be smaller as 1/2 are gone and cant get any more.

As for reserving online at zero hour, you pick your day, a drop down allows you to pick your park, then a drop down shows the list of park attractions with FP's still available, example TSM at zero hour would have all times available-so you maybe pick QTY 5 at 10:05 to 11:05. Those are now out of the system and not available anymore (there may still be 20 left with the same time, and 25 available from 10:10 to 11:10) plus the rest of the entire day.

The question just is how fast will they be used up-someone on here can likley explain if possible or not.

Anyway, if TSM is gone you may need to take RNR/TOT whatever, If you decide you really want TSM-dont take FP's for that day and hit rope drop just like now. Or do MK that day instead and check DHS tomorrow etc.

 

[clanmcculloch]

Okay, so with Disney's intentions notwithstanding, I apologize for the disgression, but let's get back to the topic of making a change to the FP system becasue it NEEDS it and discuss how much better the system would be if I could get my KS at EE so that by the time I rode EE and walked to KS, my FP would be active.

Why does it NEED changes? Lets be clear here, you WANT changes. Big difference.

You're also making a huge assumption that it would be better. People have given you thought out reasons why it wouldn't be better yet you seem to ignore that and continue with your absolute insistance that is will be. For YOU it would be but not necessarily for others and not necessarily for Disney.

You may choose to disregard Disney's intentions, but it really does boil down to what Disney needs the system to do. They're a business and a business has to make decisions that are best for them.

I truly do get the argument that people generally don't like to think too much. I don't know how many times I've been in a FP line and heard a comment from a stand-byer to the effect of "Why are they allowed to be in THAT line".

But, ya know, when you take your refillable resort drink mug to the soda fountain and need to decide which drink you'd like to fill it with, you need to be able to find and press the Coke button if you want Coke. If you press the Sprite button and were expecting Coke, well.....

I think "universal" FP machines could be made simple enough that the average person who is willing to look before they leap would be able to manipulate the machine to get what they want almost every time.

I am not disagreeing that the current FP system is pretty good, I just think that it could be better, that is really all I'm saying.

So which is it, does the system need changes or is it pretty good and you just think that it could be better?

Your example shows just how little people understand the existing system. Add in additional complexity even if it is simple and it'll become that much worse.

From a Disney perspective, what problem is it that they should be trying to solve? I understand the problem that YOU are trying to solve of having to criss cross the park but from Disney's perspective that's part of what they want with FPs. So from their perspective, what about the FP system needs improvement? Change for the sake of change does not make sense for any business because change costs money. There has to be some business reason for change.

 

[reallybadeggs]

Why does it NEED changes? Lets be clear here, you WANT changes. Big difference.

You're also making a huge assumption that it would be better. People have given you thought out reasons why it wouldn't be better yet you seem to ignore that and continue with your absolute insistance that is will be. For YOU it would be but not necessarily for others and not necessarily for Disney.

You may choose to disregard Disney's intentions, but it really does boil down to what Disney needs the system to do. They're a business and a business has to make decisions that are best for them.



So which is it, does the system need changes or is it pretty good and you just think that it could be better?

Your example shows just how little people understand the existing system. Add in additional complexity even if it is simple and it'll become that much worse.

From a Disney perspective, what problem is it that they should be trying to solve? I understand the problem that YOU are trying to solve of having to criss cross the park but from Disney's perspective that's part of what they want with FPs. So from their perspective, what about the FP system needs improvement? Change for the sake of change does not make sense for any business because change costs money. There has to be some business reason for change.

Nice speech. You forgot, "Bow before me, lesser mortals". Maybe try to add something to the forum rather than a self-serving gabfest.

 

[morethananyonex]

Why does it NEED changes? Lets be clear here, you WANT changes. Big difference.

You're also making a huge assumption that it would be better. People have given you thought out reasons why it wouldn't be better yet you seem to ignore that and continue with your absolute insistance that is will be. For YOU it would be but not necessarily for others and not necessarily for Disney.

You may choose to disregard Disney's intentions, but it really does boil down to what Disney needs the system to do. They're a business and a business has to make decisions that are best for them.



So which is it, does the system need changes or is it pretty good and you just think that it could be better?

Your example shows just how little people understand the existing system. Add in additional complexity even if it is simple and it'll become that much worse.

From a Disney perspective, what problem is it that they should be trying to solve? I understand the problem that YOU are trying to solve of having to criss cross the park but from Disney's perspective that's part of what they want with FPs. So from their perspective, what about the FP system needs improvement? Change for the sake of change does not make sense for any business because change costs money. There has to be some business reason for change.

 

[mesaboy2]

Nice speech. You forgot, "Bow before me, lesser mortals". Maybe try to add something to the forum rather than a self-serving gabfest.

I agree with the "nice speech", and think it adds something to the thread. You might want to dust off a copy of "How to Win Friends and Influence People".

 

[jayandstacey]

Good question-I admit I don't know. I do know software is more amazing every day. Can only give some ideas at this point.

Maybe take every other FP that the current system distributes and allowing reservations on them-leaving the "in park" system as is-but now they would distribute twice as fast in theory, but since 1/2 of the FP's have already been "pre-reserved" there has to be a lot fewer guests heading into those lines (because 1-they already have passes for whenever, and 2-thier park pass wont allow any more). So its possible the FP's "in park" will distribute even slower than currently, plus the mad rush for FP's at rope drop has to be smaller as 1/2 are gone and cant get any more.

As for reserving online at zero hour, you pick your day, a drop down allows you to pick your park, then a drop down shows the list of park attractions with FP's still available, example TSM at zero hour would have all times available-so you maybe pick QTY 5 at 10:05 to 11:05. Those are now out of the system and not available anymore (there may still be 20 left with the same time, and 25 available from 10:10 to 11:10) plus the rest of the entire day.

The question just is how fast will they be used up-someone on here can likley explain if possible or not.

Anyway, if TSM is gone you may need to take RNR/TOT whatever, If you decide you really want TSM-dont take FP's for that day and hit rope drop just like now. Or do MK that day instead and check DHS tomorrow etc.

Some other ideas on how to do this "home" FP:

1. Only one "home" FP per day per ticket.
2. The park ticket must be paid for to sign up for the "home" FP, and the ticket and FP must match once you're in the park.
3. You can go online and get a Home FP as soon as you own your park ticket - not at a certain time before your visit, no zero hour (like 180 days before, a la ADRs).
4. Home FPs would only be for return times later in the day...not the early slots.
5. Only a certain % of total FPs would be available as Home FPs - say, 33% of the FPs after 2pm.
6. The earlier you buy your park ticket and commit it to a day, the better your odds of getting a Home FP for the ride/time you want. If over time your plans change, you can try for a new FP, but are subject to current availability. (like ADRs)
7. Once in the park, you can get other FPs in the normal way, EXCEPT for the ride for which you have a Home FP. So the home FP won't mess you up if you are a morning person, other than to take that one "home" ride out of the equation until later in the day.
8. To get the actual FP, the person would have to bring their ticket to the ride's FP area and swipe into the machine. The machine would then spit out the Home FP as if it were a normal one. In effect, the machine would 'store' the FP until the person showed up to claim it that day.

All of this would happen 'in the background' where a customer would just see the following: "you just bought a ticket, if you wish to login and commit your ticket to a park and date, you might be able to get a FP."

This perk would have the following business justifications:

• People would buy tickets earlier instead of waiting until just before their first day (this is HUGE - early money is GOLD)
• Similarly, non-expiring tickets would be worth more.
• Disney would have greater visibility to predict park attendance instead of just using room bookings and ADRs.

I think something like this would work, has business justification, is not complicated and requires only a website tie-in to the existing FP system, and some software modifications. It is available to every guest (provided they buy their tickets early) and does not change the current FP in-park system in any way. It even requires coming to the ride early to get the FPs, so still the 'walk around and buy stuff' factor.

 

[DonaldTDuck]

Nice speech. You forgot, "Bow before me, lesser mortals". Maybe try to add something to the forum rather than a self-serving gabfest.

Bakatcha. Your entire idea is self-serving and every argument against you blow off. The field right now is level and I hope it stays level. I don't believe WDW would implement what you want because it's not best for everyone.

 

[morethananyonex]

Bakatcha. Your entire idea is self-serving and every argument against you blow off. The field right now is level and I hope it stays level. I don't believe WDW would implement what you want because it's not best for everyone.

Nevermind everyone, it's not even that great for them.