Fallen on Bad times: request help

[elijahpep]

Can't offer advise, but we send our support and hope to you Mickey91701~



~DW

 

[CarolA]

Sorry to hear about your situation.

My advice is that the advice on this board in this case is worth EXACTLY what you are paying for it.... Giving legal advice without knowing the entire situation etc. is kind of like doing brain surgery over the phone....a shot in the dark.

I would take ALL your documents from DVC to your attorney and get his/her advice prior to making any arrangements with anyone.... I realize this may add to your legal fees, but any of our advice however well meaning can get you in trouble.

Hang in there!

 

[ducklite]

Sorry to hear about your situation.

My advice is that the advice on this board in this case is worth EXACTLY what you are paying for it.... Giving legal advice without knowing the entire situation etc. is kind of like doing brain surgery over the phone....a shot in the dark.

I would take ALL your documents from DVC to your attorney and get his/her advice prior to making any arrangements with anyone.... I realize this may add to your legal fees, but any of our advice however well meaning can get you in trouble.

Hang in there!

This is absolutely the case! The OP needs to work with a BANKRUPTCY attorney--not general practice. Most general practice attorney's really don't have the expertise in the specialized field of Bankruptcy practice, which is a Federal jurisdiction with it's own BK specific courts and rules that vary from district to district.

Anne

 

[Terry S]

I know someone with DVC who recently filed for bankruptcy, I don't remember the number, but it is the one where they make a budget to pay back the debt. Honestly they just didn't mention the DVC to their bankruptcy lawyer and kept it. It does not show on your on your credit report. They just finished the court thing and it never came up.

 

[ducklite]

I know someone with DVC who recently filed for bankruptcy, I don't remember the number, but it is the one where they make a budget to pay back the debt. Honestly they just didn't mention the DVC to their bankruptcy lawyer and kept it. It does not show on your on your credit report. They just finished the court thing and it never came up.

That would be a chapter 13. They better hope their creditors and the courts never get wind of this, because they committed fraud by not disclosing an asset, and could be held criminally liable by the courts. BK judges do not look kindly on a glaring obviously intentional ommission like that.

Anne

 

[lisaviolet]

Hi,

No advice. Just sorry to hear about your situation. All the best to you and your family.

Lisa

 

[mikesmom]

I know someone with DVC who recently filed for bankruptcy, I don't remember the number, but it is the one where they make a budget to pay back the debt. Honestly they just didn't mention the DVC to their bankruptcy lawyer and kept it. It does not show on your on your credit report. They just finished the court thing and it never came up.

As a DVC owner I REALLY sympathize with the OP, that is such a tough situation and I hope eventually they will get past all this and be OK. I can't blame the OP for trying to salvage something - this is heartbreaking.

Now that being said, it is NOT cool to encourage someone to hide things in BK. I am a small business owner. I pay taxes, pay a couple of employees and pay my bills. We design custom items for people and businesses and contract with manufacturers to have them produced. I have to pay the factory. Last year one of my clients declared bankruptcy. I was an unsecured creditor. As such, I got not one penny when this guy went bankrupt. Not only do I not get paid, I still had to pay the manufacturer who produced the items for us in order to protect my credit (and because I contracted to do so and it was the right thing to do.). Had I learned that this guy had hidden an asset to protect his future vacations while I struggled to pay for the products he had ordered and taken delivery on, I would have been pretty ticked off.

It's easy to think bankruptcy is just about not paying the big credit card company in the sky. Sometimes it's about not paying real people who are also working hard to pay for their DVC (and their medical bills and the kids' college, etc).

 

[bongo59]

this is for the thread starter and poster who attacked my post reply as bunk..........Anne I believe, her name was...............we just bought another 1200 points from a couple just prior to entering into a bankruptcy proceeding in Colorado...........everything i just told you is exactly how it went down in that case...........it occured six weeks ago and we did get Disney involved on the front end. You need legal advice but the advice will vary from juristiction to juristiction.............the creditors in this case came after the sellers big time and a judge did get involved to iron the matters out for the sellers..........we also had to give up certified funds to complete this transaction as per the judges wishes. This was a real world case not one made. I think Anne may be right in some cases but not all...............and she was not right in our case.

 

[ducklite]

this is for the thread starter and poster who attacked my post reply as bunk..........Anne I believe, her name was...............we just bought another 1200 points from a couple just prior to entering into a bankruptcy proceeding in Colorado...........everything i just told you is exactly how it went down in that case...........it occured six weeks ago and we did get Disney involved on the front end. You need legal advice but the advice will vary from juristiction to juristiction.............the creditors in this case came after the sellers big time and a judge did get involved to iron the matters out for the sellers..........we also had to give up certified funds to complete this transaction as per the judges wishes. This was a real world case not one made. I think Anne may be right in some cases but not all...............and she was not right in our case.

Chances are that they didn't properly disclose this asset on their filing. The judge wanted to see the certified funds only because of their fraud to make certain you weren't a straw buyer. Of course if they failed to disclose the creditors would come after them. I think there's more to this story than you are aware of. Had this asset been disclosed and the proper paperwork been submitted, it wouldn't have been an issue.

Anne

 

[shantay1008]

Wouldn't it be nice if the in-laws could just take over making the monthly payments without any actual sale involved? Could that be part of the agreement with the judge? (Please don't yell at me if you think this is a dumb suggestion...I just feel bad for the OP and was trying to think of something. I was just reading an article about how most bankruptcies in this country arise from medical situations.)

 

[ducklite]

Wouldn't it be nice if the in-laws could just take over making the monthly payments without any actual sale involved? Could that be part of the agreement with the judge? (Please don't yell at me if you think this is a dumb suggestion...I just feel bad for the OP and was trying to think of something. I was just reading an article about how most bankruptcies in this country arise from medical situations.)

Unfortunately that won't work. Great idea though

Anne

 

[Caskbill]

If you do wind up selling to your relatives, keep in mind that DVC will waive their ROFR in most cases, but you need to contact them and get that indicated up front.

I sold some points to my brother years ago, and DVC sent us a letter stating they waive ROFR for the sale.

 

[mickey91701]

I used to be a BK paralegal. Don't listen to most of the above. First, is this a Chapter 7 or 13?

Your DVC points are considered a secured debt. You can REAFFIRM that debt and keep the points provided that A. Disney as a secured creditor is willing to allow you to do so--there's no reason for them not to unless you are behind on the payments. In that case they will require you to become current and stay current, or they will force you into a forclosure. B. The monthly payment for them can work within your budget that you will need to provide to the court and your creditors at your 341 meeting.

HOWEVER--you at this point have equity in those points, and that is not an asset allowed by the law for you to keep. You *may* be allowed to in a chapter 13, it's probably it will need to be disposed of in a chapter 7. Your creditors could force the liquidation for their behalf, and you'll have no choice but to do so. More so in a chapter 7 than 13.

Who you sell the points to will generally be up to you--BUT THEY MUST BE SOLD FOR FMV. So if you sell them to a relative, it can't be for $20 a point. You will be required to document any assets you have disposed of in the previous 60 or more days prior to filing, and creditors have a field day with transfer of assets to avoid bk proceedings--unless you can prove that you sold/transfered for a reasonable FMV and used the proceeds to pay debt. Even then if one unsecured creditor was favored over others it can get ugly.

Now leaving the BK out of it, you can legally TRANSFER as a "gift" (there are tax repurcussions) DVC deeds without right of first refusal. However it's my understanding that to *sell* them requires a right of first refusal execution on Disney's part. And on that note, IF this is what you want to or must do, you or your attorney must contact DVC about it.

There's a lot more legal mumbly jumble, but that's the gist of it. Good luck.

Anne

We are looking at a Chapter 13 in order to keep our cars. My wife transfers my son to a specialized school for autism and I have to drive because their is no public transportation to my office.
In all honesty, our DVC membership is the only thing we have left that brings us any joy in life. I have scheduled an appointment with a prominent BK attorney and hope to figure out a way to keep our membership.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Good luck to you, and be sure to come back here and let us know how it turned out. THere are so many ideas of what MIGHT happen, that we all would like to know what DOES happen. Here's hoping for the best for you on all counts!

 

[fishermouse]

Guess I'll be the heartless guy and throw some logic in here. You obviously have some big time money problems, my advice sell the DVC, if inlaws are able to buy it great if not let it go. You can always buy back in, with cash, when things get better and your able to save some money. For the next few years go back to basic, inexpensive vacations when you can. DVC is a luxury I'm sure there more important things to pay for. The unpaid bills from any bankrupcy do not disappear, they get passed along as higher intrest rates, fees and insurance premiums to all the other clients/customers.
I just know I'm going to catch it for this, but it's just MHO..
GOOD LUCK

 

[ducklite]

We are looking at a Chapter 13 in order to keep our cars. My wife transfers my son to a specialized school for autism and I have to drive because their is no public transportation to my office.
In all honesty, our DVC membership is the only thing we have left that brings us any joy in life. I have scheduled an appointment with a prominent BK attorney and hope to figure out a way to keep our membership.

Depending on what they are worth and what you owe on them, you could probably keep them in a Chapter 7 as well.

The biggest issue you have will be with your creditors. Depending on what you owe on DVC versus the FMV, they could force a sale. That said, it could be to your relatives for FMV, they can not dictate who it will be sold to, as long as it's FMV.

When you go to do your budget for your repayment plan, my guess it that it's costing around $300/mo with your loan and dues, maybe a bit more depending on how many points you have and what your d/p was. That's not an insignificant monthly nut, and depending on what your are offering the unsecured creditors on the dollar, they might object to your keeping the DVC.

If Sears or Discover is one of your creditors, your going to be in trouble. They are relentless at getting back every possible dime.

Anne

 

[Blue&Gold]

I just know I'm going to catch it for this, but it's just MHO.. GOOD LUCK

I also wish the OP the best, but wonder whether a review of priorities is called for in this situation.

 

[Paging Tom Morrow]

I also wish the OP the best, but wonder whether a review of priorities is called for in this situation.

Same here. I am of the belief that bankruptcy should be an absolute last resort used after someone makes their absolute best effort to repay all their outstanding debts. This includes making some tough decisions, specifically letting go of sentimental items.

Best of luck to the OP and their family.

 

[manning]

Guess I'll be the heartless guy and throw some logic in here. You obviously have some big time money problems, my advice sell the DVC, if inlaws are able to buy it great if not let it go. You can always buy back in, with cash, when things get better and your able to save some money. For the next few years go back to basic, inexpensive vacations when you can. DVC is a luxury I'm sure there more important things to pay for. The unpaid bills from any bankrupcy do not disappear, they get passed along as higher intrest rates, fees and insurance premiums to all the other clients/customers.
I just know I'm going to catch it for this, but it's just MHO..
GOOD LUCK

I regretfully have to agree with fishermouse. Your priority is getting the family back onto a sound financial footing. Depending on how long you have owned there may be a profit in the sale and this will help in paying off the bills.

And remember, when one door closes another one opens. Just hang in there! Good luck.

 

[ducklite]

Same here. I am of the belief that bankruptcy should be an absolute last resort used after someone makes their absolute best effort to repay all their outstanding debts. This includes making some tough decisions, specifically letting go of sentimental items.

Best of luck to the OP and their family.

Although it sounds like there's going to be a BK one way or the other, and depending on how much is still owed and what the payments are, it might not make a hill of beans difference to the creditors.

Like I said earlier, former BK paralegal here. That meant that the attorney met with the client for about ten minutes took a brief overview of their situation and determined the filing chapter, and set the fee. Then it was all up to me to prepare the filings, including the budget, deal with the creditors, and prep the client for the 341 meeting.

I say this because I was the one who had to explain to some of them that in all likelihood their budget was going to get trashed by the creditors, and their $150/mo cable bill with all the pay channels, $150/mo for haircuts for two people, trendy $150/mo health club membership, $500/mo cleaning service, $1500/mo food bill for a family of four, yaddayaddayadda weren't going to fly when they had an income of $2800/mo after their neccessities (rent or mtg, insurance, electric/gas/water/phone/car payment/etc.). In that case they either had a viable chapter 13 rather than chapter 7, or they could be paying back their creditors a lot faster on their chapter 13 if they cut down on the wants over needs. It was a lot of tough love.

On the other hand, someone who came in with a reasonable budget where they had cut out pretty much anything that wasn't a neccesity but had left one "luxury" in--let's say a time share membership that they wanted to reaffirm, or a family membership at the "Y", the creditors generally didn't make a fuss. Although to be honest, it very much depended on the type of debt. If it was all medical, then generally no one took a second look at the budget. If it were credit cards, it was a different story. (Which is why it's never a good idea to pay medical other than your day-to-day copays and such that you have the available cash for with ac redit card.) With credit card debt they don't care what caused the debt, it's looked at negatively.

Anyhow, as long as the rest of the budget is kept frugal, it's probable that the DVC will be able to be reaffirmed without a blink from the creditors. Now if it's 1000 points, that might be a different story. It really comes down to how many points they have and how much are still owed on them.

Anne