Lollipop Mom
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2003
- Messages
- 1,079
[EDITING TO BRING THE INFO CURRENT! (otherwise known as my first novel...buckle up, it's a long one! 
]
Fall and Winter AP rates are on their way out but there are a couple of new twists now!
There's a new twist to the AP rate game! Disney has released a new program for passholder rates. It is called the "Passholder Best Rate Program" This program is only available for booking online and should guarantee passholders who book with it the best available rate to the general public or passholders. It is currently available for booking online for check ins from 8/8/05 - 11/26/05. (From what I was told by guest services dates through 12/19/05 will follow shortly)
The details on this offer:
-must be booked online
-must be booked at least 120 days or more in advance
-one night NONREFUNDABLE deposit will be required at the time of booking. No 14 day hold, no 5 day cancellation policy.
-an ADULT AP must be used, a child's pass will not work.
-only ONE ROOM per pass may be booked with this offer as opposed to 3 rooms which was the standard previously.
-to book yourself on the passholder portion of the Disneyworld.com web site, you will need an ACTIVATED ADULT annual pass. A travel agent can book for you with a voucher but you must have the voucher or an activated pass on hand to book this offer.
What they are saying is that they guarantee passholders the lowest rate available to the general public. This excludes membership rates (AAA), resident rates or group rates. They are saying they will automatically reduce your rate for you without you calling if a lower rate for passholders or the general public are released later. You will not have to watch for these discounts and call, they will automatically be applied.
THE RATES YOU WILL FIND FOR 10/8 - 11/26 ARE RACK RATE AS OF NOW. THEY ARE NOT DISCOUNTED. This is NOT a release of AP codes, just the roll out of a new program. It sounds as though they will still have the same AP rates released as we've seen before but they are likely to be VERY limited because of this new program. No one has been able to give a difinitive answer as to if the AP rates as we know them will continue to be released as they have been in the past. We expect they will be, but we don't know for sure yet. I'll update this post as new info becomes availale (as well as in a reply for those who may not re-read this first post).
This likely means changes to the AP rate policies such as requiring a pass or voucher number to book or hold the rates and quite possibly a much stricter cancellation policy, possibly a nonrefundable deposit requirement. It raises a lot of questions such as:
-why not at least match AAA rates? if I have a AAA reservation, with a 5 day cancelation policy and a better rate, why should I book a room at rack rate with a nonrefundable deposit if you can't guarantee me a discount at least as good as AAA in the end?
-what about people who are just purchasing an AP voucher? they can not book anything untill they receive the voucher?
-what about PIN codes? will they match those? what if I have a room booked with this plan and I get a pin code offer, can I apply the PIN to that ressie or do I have to cancel and lose my deposit in order to use the PIN (assuming the rates will not match the PIN rates since they are not general public rates)?
-if I'm booking a split stay, both of my deposits would be nonrefundable. That's a big risk.
-if the rooms are already booked at rack rate with nonrefundable deposit, what is the motivation to discount them at all?
-what about non-room discounts? The free dining offer made for hurricane season did not discount the rooms, just the dining. With this plan, will I get some sort of discount to compensate for not being able to add the free dining or am I out of luck b/c one is a package and one is room only?
At this point, it's a big gamble!
Here is the official statement from Disney on this new offer:
More thoughts:
===========
Piecing together info from the 20 some off CMs I spoke with yesterday (or more accurately, 7 or 8 of them who actually took the time to go over all of this with me and seemed to either know what was happening or at the very least, know who to go to with questions about it) here's what my speculation is (basically what the CMs I spoke with all seem to think this will likely mean....of course we could ALL be wrong...who knows at this point!
)
-I don't think this is the end of AP rates as we know them but I do think that some of these policies are going to carry over. I think we'll still see them, but that their availability will be very limited. A big part of the reason they will be limited is that it will encourage people to book with this new "program" in the future. If they are booked with the program and a discount comes out, then they are guaranteed to get it. If they play wait and see, then there is a good chance the availability will be gone. That would leave you saying "darn, I wish I'd booked this on that program!"
-I think very likely we will see some of this policy become standard for AP rates, namely needing a pass or voucher to book the rates (YES, it does say on the TA web site you can book with a voucher...I haven't tried it yet but it does say a voucher # can be entered). I would wouldn't be surprised if they limit our ability to do a 14 day hold on rates in the future as well. If that is the case, then these 2 things combined mean that you can not book a rate till you have the voucher IN HAND. By the time you order and then receive the voucher, the rate you wanted may no longer be available. I've sent an email and told any CM I spoke with that I would love to see the option to allow you to book the AP rate either with a valid passholder ID #, a voucher # or if you are willing to purchase a voucher in the same transaction as putting down the deposit. That would allow "new" passholders to book the rates and still ensure that people booking them have paid for an AP. This eliminates the problem of people abusing the AP rates when they aren't actually passholders.
-I wouldn't be surprised if they modify the online booking at disneyworld.com to allow you to book with a pass voucher. Untill they do, or if they don't end up doing it, you can book with a voucher with a travel agent. There are many reputable Disney specialist agencies around. Working with a specialist agency should eliminate that "I know more about Disney than my TA does thing." None of us charge for our services and I am not aware of a single specialist agency that imposes any restrictions like their own cancellation fees etc. This may end up being true not just for this "best rate program" but for booking AP rates with a voucher at all.
-cancellation policy: I was told last year by a CM that there was talk of making ANY discounted room only reservation have to follow package booking rules, balance due 45 days out and $100 cancelation fee for 5-44 day out cancellations, $200 for less than 5 days out. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see that now. TA discounted rooms are like this now, they follow package guidelines from deposit to payment due to cancellation polcies even though they are room only reservations and not packages. This nonrefundable thing is what I suspect they will get the most complaints on. It's possible they will move towards a 45 day out policy which will be better but still a BIG change for lots of people. One CM I spoke with said that a while ago, like 18 months ago an idea was tossed around where they would offer some really terrific discount off of rack rate, but that the catches would be it would have to be booked really far out in advance and would have a nonrefundable deposit, it was also suggested that the deposit would be 1/2 the cost of the booking so you'd get a really great deal for booking 6 months in advance but you'd have to give them 1/2 up front and have it be nonrefundable. He said that was just tossed around as an idea and he thought it had been abandoned but was now wondering it we may see something like that. Offer great rates but stiffer conditions and more limitations on booking. Time will tell.
What I'm recommending to clients is this...if you already own a pass or know for sure you are buying one because of the ADMISSION discounts (ie you will be going to the parks enough that it makes good $ sense to have it to save on admission) and you are already booked at rack rate and know you'll be staying at this resort no matter what, then go ahead with it. If any one of those conditions doesn't fit then sit tight and wait. If you don't already own a pass...don't bite. If you are not willing to stay in your room even without a discount....don't bite. If you have AAA...don't bite.
A big concern I have for clients is that Disney has left a nice little loop hole. They are saying that they will match any discounts to the room. Well, what about this free dining offer or if they do some stay X # of nights and get 2 X # of day tickets free (like Universal does) then the ROOM is technically not discounted, is it? it's the additional features that are discounted. Features not available to you with a room only booking so the argument could be made that it is not comparing apples to apples.
This will be an interesting twist from this point on. It will be interesting to see what other changes will follow.
]Fall and Winter AP rates are on their way out but there are a couple of new twists now!
There's a new twist to the AP rate game! Disney has released a new program for passholder rates. It is called the "Passholder Best Rate Program" This program is only available for booking online and should guarantee passholders who book with it the best available rate to the general public or passholders. It is currently available for booking online for check ins from 8/8/05 - 11/26/05. (From what I was told by guest services dates through 12/19/05 will follow shortly)
The details on this offer:
-must be booked online
-must be booked at least 120 days or more in advance
-one night NONREFUNDABLE deposit will be required at the time of booking. No 14 day hold, no 5 day cancellation policy.
-an ADULT AP must be used, a child's pass will not work.
-only ONE ROOM per pass may be booked with this offer as opposed to 3 rooms which was the standard previously.
-to book yourself on the passholder portion of the Disneyworld.com web site, you will need an ACTIVATED ADULT annual pass. A travel agent can book for you with a voucher but you must have the voucher or an activated pass on hand to book this offer.
What they are saying is that they guarantee passholders the lowest rate available to the general public. This excludes membership rates (AAA), resident rates or group rates. They are saying they will automatically reduce your rate for you without you calling if a lower rate for passholders or the general public are released later. You will not have to watch for these discounts and call, they will automatically be applied.
THE RATES YOU WILL FIND FOR 10/8 - 11/26 ARE RACK RATE AS OF NOW. THEY ARE NOT DISCOUNTED. This is NOT a release of AP codes, just the roll out of a new program. It sounds as though they will still have the same AP rates released as we've seen before but they are likely to be VERY limited because of this new program. No one has been able to give a difinitive answer as to if the AP rates as we know them will continue to be released as they have been in the past. We expect they will be, but we don't know for sure yet. I'll update this post as new info becomes availale (as well as in a reply for those who may not re-read this first post).
This likely means changes to the AP rate policies such as requiring a pass or voucher number to book or hold the rates and quite possibly a much stricter cancellation policy, possibly a nonrefundable deposit requirement. It raises a lot of questions such as:
-why not at least match AAA rates? if I have a AAA reservation, with a 5 day cancelation policy and a better rate, why should I book a room at rack rate with a nonrefundable deposit if you can't guarantee me a discount at least as good as AAA in the end?
-what about people who are just purchasing an AP voucher? they can not book anything untill they receive the voucher?
-what about PIN codes? will they match those? what if I have a room booked with this plan and I get a pin code offer, can I apply the PIN to that ressie or do I have to cancel and lose my deposit in order to use the PIN (assuming the rates will not match the PIN rates since they are not general public rates)?
-if I'm booking a split stay, both of my deposits would be nonrefundable. That's a big risk.
-if the rooms are already booked at rack rate with nonrefundable deposit, what is the motivation to discount them at all?
-what about non-room discounts? The free dining offer made for hurricane season did not discount the rooms, just the dining. With this plan, will I get some sort of discount to compensate for not being able to add the free dining or am I out of luck b/c one is a package and one is room only?
At this point, it's a big gamble!
Here is the official statement from Disney on this new offer:
More thoughts:
===========
Piecing together info from the 20 some off CMs I spoke with yesterday (or more accurately, 7 or 8 of them who actually took the time to go over all of this with me and seemed to either know what was happening or at the very least, know who to go to with questions about it) here's what my speculation is (basically what the CMs I spoke with all seem to think this will likely mean....of course we could ALL be wrong...who knows at this point!
)-I don't think this is the end of AP rates as we know them but I do think that some of these policies are going to carry over. I think we'll still see them, but that their availability will be very limited. A big part of the reason they will be limited is that it will encourage people to book with this new "program" in the future. If they are booked with the program and a discount comes out, then they are guaranteed to get it. If they play wait and see, then there is a good chance the availability will be gone. That would leave you saying "darn, I wish I'd booked this on that program!"
-I think very likely we will see some of this policy become standard for AP rates, namely needing a pass or voucher to book the rates (YES, it does say on the TA web site you can book with a voucher...I haven't tried it yet but it does say a voucher # can be entered). I would wouldn't be surprised if they limit our ability to do a 14 day hold on rates in the future as well. If that is the case, then these 2 things combined mean that you can not book a rate till you have the voucher IN HAND. By the time you order and then receive the voucher, the rate you wanted may no longer be available. I've sent an email and told any CM I spoke with that I would love to see the option to allow you to book the AP rate either with a valid passholder ID #, a voucher # or if you are willing to purchase a voucher in the same transaction as putting down the deposit. That would allow "new" passholders to book the rates and still ensure that people booking them have paid for an AP. This eliminates the problem of people abusing the AP rates when they aren't actually passholders.
-I wouldn't be surprised if they modify the online booking at disneyworld.com to allow you to book with a pass voucher. Untill they do, or if they don't end up doing it, you can book with a voucher with a travel agent. There are many reputable Disney specialist agencies around. Working with a specialist agency should eliminate that "I know more about Disney than my TA does thing." None of us charge for our services and I am not aware of a single specialist agency that imposes any restrictions like their own cancellation fees etc. This may end up being true not just for this "best rate program" but for booking AP rates with a voucher at all.
-cancellation policy: I was told last year by a CM that there was talk of making ANY discounted room only reservation have to follow package booking rules, balance due 45 days out and $100 cancelation fee for 5-44 day out cancellations, $200 for less than 5 days out. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see that now. TA discounted rooms are like this now, they follow package guidelines from deposit to payment due to cancellation polcies even though they are room only reservations and not packages. This nonrefundable thing is what I suspect they will get the most complaints on. It's possible they will move towards a 45 day out policy which will be better but still a BIG change for lots of people. One CM I spoke with said that a while ago, like 18 months ago an idea was tossed around where they would offer some really terrific discount off of rack rate, but that the catches would be it would have to be booked really far out in advance and would have a nonrefundable deposit, it was also suggested that the deposit would be 1/2 the cost of the booking so you'd get a really great deal for booking 6 months in advance but you'd have to give them 1/2 up front and have it be nonrefundable. He said that was just tossed around as an idea and he thought it had been abandoned but was now wondering it we may see something like that. Offer great rates but stiffer conditions and more limitations on booking. Time will tell.
What I'm recommending to clients is this...if you already own a pass or know for sure you are buying one because of the ADMISSION discounts (ie you will be going to the parks enough that it makes good $ sense to have it to save on admission) and you are already booked at rack rate and know you'll be staying at this resort no matter what, then go ahead with it. If any one of those conditions doesn't fit then sit tight and wait. If you don't already own a pass...don't bite. If you are not willing to stay in your room even without a discount....don't bite. If you have AAA...don't bite.
A big concern I have for clients is that Disney has left a nice little loop hole. They are saying that they will match any discounts to the room. Well, what about this free dining offer or if they do some stay X # of nights and get 2 X # of day tickets free (like Universal does) then the ROOM is technically not discounted, is it? it's the additional features that are discounted. Features not available to you with a room only booking so the argument could be made that it is not comparing apples to apples.
This will be an interesting twist from this point on. It will be interesting to see what other changes will follow.
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