Explosion at Ariana Grande concert in England?

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The painful irony is that dozens of schools get shot up in this country and an average of seven children are killed by guns every day (four are murdered), and yet we don't act to change anything, much less take guns away from people who should not have them. You are worried for your children, and what happened in Manchester is truly the horrid work of depraved cowards and we must work to stop future attacks, but guns cause more than two Manchesters's worth of death for innocent children per week in this nation! The odds of a student being killed in school by a gun are still significantly greater in this country than they are of being killed by an ISIL terrorist's bomb, so I think we should devote more attention to the real danger that is before us.

With all due respect gun control and terriorists attacks can be vastly different topics at hand. This discussion however on this thread isn't about gun control.

 

[DizBelle]

I'm saddened that she canceled the rest of her European tour. That a tick in the "win" column for them.

 

[NotUrsula]

On a slightly more cheerful note, Queen Elizabeth visited survivors at a Manchester children's hospital yesterday. https://twitter.com/Telegraph?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

She turned on the clucking Granny persona full-blast with the kids, which was rather sweet of her. Regardless of their political feelings about the monarchy, those kids will remember for the rest of their lives that the Queen came in to chat whilst they were in hospital.

 

[mom2rtk]

On a slightly more cheerful note, Queen Elizabeth visited survivors at a Manchester children's hospital yesterday. https://twitter.com/Telegraph?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

She turned on the clucking Granny persona full-blast with the kids, which was rather sweet of her. Regardless of their political feelings about the monarchy, those kids will remember for the rest of their lives that the Queen came in to chat whilst they were in hospital.

I saw that and it did my heart good in the midst of all that tragedy.

 

[Geoff_M]

Seriously, Muslims who believe and actively support ISIS and/or similar groups is probably only about 1% of all Muslims, if that. I imagine it's similar for the number of Christians (or those who claim to be Christian) who believe in violent ends or donate to groups who work against liberties for all.

While I agree that the support of ISIS within the global Muslim community is low, research says that it's a lot high than you suggest. Here's a summary earlier this year from the Pew Research Center.

How do Muslims feel about groups like ISIS?
Recent surveys show that most people in several countries with significant Muslim populations have an unfavorable view of ISIS, including virtually all respondents in Lebanon and 94% in Jordan. Relatively small shares say they see ISIS favorably. In some countries, considerable portions of the population do not offer an opinion about ISIS, including a majority (62%) of Pakistanis.

Favorable views of ISIS are somewhat higher in Nigeria (14%) than most other nations. Among Nigerian Muslims, 20% say they see ISIS favorably (compared with 7% of Nigerian Christians). The Nigerian militant group Boko Haram, which has been conducting a terrorist campaign in the country for years, has sworn allegiance to ISIS.

More generally, Muslims mostly say that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are rarely or never justified, including 92% in Indonesia and 91% in Iraq. In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified.

In a few countries, a quarter or more of Muslims say these acts of violence are at least sometimes justified, including 40% in the Palestinian territories, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% in Bangladesh.

While the Pew data shows that the global support of ISIS is quite low, it appears to be well above "1%" And the number of respondents who say that such suicide attacks against civilian targets are a justifiable means to an end are also quite sobering. Using your 1.6B number, when you do the math, that's not a "small" group of folks.

 

[Hikergirl]

I'm saddened that she canceled the rest of her European tour. That a tick in the "win" column for them.

See I think the opposite. I think it shows that she is human, has a heart and compassion and that she isn't in it just for the money. IMO it would be pretty cold and callous if she went on with her tour right now.

I also read that she is planning on paying for the funerals of those who were killed. I can't imagine what she is going through right now, but this clearly effected her deeply.

 

[luvsJack]

See I think the opposite. I think it shows that she is human, has a heart and compassion and that she isn't in it just for the money. IMO it would be pretty cold and callous if she went on with her tour right now.

I also read that she is planning on paying for the funerals of those who were killed. I can't imagine what she is going through right now, but this clearly effected her deeply.

I agree. I think it shows a lot about Ms. Grande and her humanity. I have heard that Justin Beiber's fans are asking him to cancel his tour also.

Besides, I really think that "business as usual" isn't working. We keep saying if we stop anything they win. How are they not winning now if we don't know when they will strike again?

 

[Snap Crackle Pop]

I'm saddened that she canceled the rest of her European tour. That a tick in the "win" column for them.

No it isn't. Can you imagine the guilt that Ariana feels? There is no way she would be able to continue going on tour with all that has happened. If she did go on tour there would be people screaming that she is heartless because she only cares about money. She deserves to have time off, and deserves time to heal.

 

[luvsJack]

While I agree that the support of ISIS within the global Muslim community is low, research says that it's a lot high than you suggest. Here's a summary earlier this year from the Pew Research Center.

While the Pew data shows that the global support of ISIS is quite low, it appears to be well above "1%" And the number of respondents who say that such suicide attacks against civilian targets are a justifiable means to an end are also quite sobering. Using your 1.6B number, when you do the math, that's not a "small" group of folks.

There are quite a few Muslim countries not on that list. Some of those countries are quite dangerous for Westerners. So, can't say they agree with suicide bombs but they sure agree with the hate.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm saddened that she canceled the rest of her European tour. That a tick in the "win" column for them.

Some can look at it through that lens. She also could have continued and run the risk of looking callous and insensitive by simply continuing on as if people weren't killed and injured. She was in a no win situation through no fault of her own.

 

[DizBelle]

Some can look at it through that lens. She also could have continued and run the risk of looking callous and insensitive by simply continuing on as if people weren't killed and injured. She was in a no win situation through no fault of her own.

Then shouldn't have all tours of all artists have been canceled? This had nothing to do with Ariana Grande. It was just her concert in that venue on that night.

I guess U2 having a concert in my city last night was callous and insensitive of them.

 

[wilkeliza]

Then shouldn't have all tours of all artists have been canceled? This had nothing to do with Ariana Grande. It was just her concert in that venue on that night.

I guess U2 having a concert in my city last night was callous and insensitive of them.

If you read the tweet she put out right after I think it speaks volumes to her current mindset. She wrote "broken. form the bottom of my heart, i am so so so sorry. i don't have words." Just in the way it is worded it is clear she is feeling a lot of guilt. Yes some people will say the show must go on or they won or whatever but she also needs time to heal. U2 wasn't on stage/just exited stage while their fans were bombed outside. Ariana was.

 

[godders]

While I agree that the support of ISIS within the global Muslim community is low, research says that it's a lot high than you suggest. Here's a summary earlier this year from the Pew Research Center.

While the Pew data shows that the global support of ISIS is quite low, it appears to be well above "1%" And the number of respondents who say that such suicide attacks against civilian targets are a justifiable means to an end are also quite sobering. Using your 1.6B number, when you do the math, that's not a "small" group of folks.

The problem with that survey is that they only asked 1,000 people in each of those countries so in no way can it be claim to be representative. And statistics on their own are useless without context. On top of that just because someone says they agree with something in an anonymous survey doesn't mean they act on it in any way. I am sure there are many, many people who have some pretty heinous beliefs or say some awful things behind closed doors or over the internet but don't physically do anything (not that it is right). There are many reasons for people to say they support something like this and we, living in our relatively safe bubbles, can't understand that.

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this point as we have moved far beyond the specifics of the issues in Manchester.

I'm sure poor Ariana is feeling some misplaced guilt as those who are involved in these kinds of incidents often do so I'm not surprised she's cancelled the London gigs. I'm a born and bred Manchunian so I hate that people would target the city as it's inhabitants are some of the nicest I've ever found. The city survived, rebuilt and thrived despite the efforts of the IRA so I'm sure they shall do so again

 

[Geoff_M]

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this point as we have moved far beyond the specifics of the issues in Manchester.

You're certainly free to disagree with me and dismiss the results of scientific randomized surveys in favor of personal reckoning, but my point here is that it doesn't do any good to try and overstate OR understate the size of the group of people that both support and carry out such acts.

 

[Hikergirl]

Then shouldn't have all tours of all artists have been canceled? This had nothing to do with Ariana Grande. It was just her concert in that venue on that night.

I guess U2 having a concert in my city last night was callous and insensitive of them.

So you don't see how a terrorist attack at her concert where her fans were killed and injured could effect her personally? You think because she's an entertainer that the show must go on? OK then.

 

[okeydokey]

Ariana Grande is a victim here. I would support her decision to continue the tour and I would support her decision to cancel the tour. She is suffered a trauma and the tour schedule is up to her. It's awful that people would judge her for either decision.

 

[cabanafrau]

Then shouldn't have all tours of all artists have been canceled? This had nothing to do with Ariana Grande. It was just her concert in that venue on that night.

I guess U2 having a concert in my city last night was callous and insensitive of them.

Perhaps my statement that "she was in a no win situation through no fault of her own" did an inadequate job of conveying that the events had nothing to do with personal responsibility on behalf of Ariana Grande?

Is there any room for the possibility to consider the decision was made to hit the pause button as a mark of respect for the victims and their families, a small measure to show she's not simply putting the matter in her rearview and on with the show?

Neither U2 or anyone else is under any obligation to act as if the world will not go on spinning, nor did I remotely suggest they should. Some people don't even feel compelled to stop and mourn their own loved ones, finding it too inconvenient or too much of an expense. If that decision is to be respected, then who has the right to say Ariana Grande and those in charge of the tour shouldn't be respected for their choice to take a breath in light of tragedy?

 

[BadPinkTink]

ok, can we just hold up a second and separate the person from the personality. Ariana Grande is a 23 years old girl. How many of you have daughters, sisters, cousins, friends, are 23 year old girls?? Now put that 23 year old girl you know in the place of Ariana Grande, and then criticise her for cancelling the tour. Like seriously , can you even comprehend the trauma this young girl is going through, that these children came to see her and now they are dead??? That she could have even died if the bomb had exploded near the stage, that she survived but others died??

Im glad she cancelled the tour and I just really want to hug her and tell her what she is feeling is normal for those of us who have experienced terrorist attacks. I hope people around her realise that she is probably going to have PTSD and that they know how to deal with someone who suffers PTSD

 

[Pacolovestacos]

Ariana of course did the right thing. How ridiculous if after 20+ of her fans were murdered, she was singing, dancing, and smiling the next day? Are you guys serious?

 

[Julie's Haircut]

Ironically enough several teens from the Manchester area were known to be radicalized via the internet and traveled to make contact with ISIS. Some trained and became fighters, some became brides to ISIS members. This hasn't only happened to teens from Manchester obviously. I can't wrap my mind around sitting around on the internet and/or social media long enough for anyone to come to the conclusion that's a good choice in life.

Those attracted to ISIS and other such groups aren't merely disaffected, alienated, or frustrated with life. Millions of people suffer such feelings and yet still have something in their brains that tells them "BAD IDEA."

The ones seeking to join are already deeply flawed individuals independent of ISIS who find such philosophies and actions quite palatable. Humanity's damaged goods and factory rejects.