Explosion at Ariana Grande concert in England?

[erin1715]

In my opinion, there is a root cause of this type of evil but nobody wants to say it out of fear of being called a bigot. And I would get points if I said so here.

Does it really matter where these people were trained? The problem is ISIS and other such groups. They can exist anywhere which makes them very complicated and hard to pin down.

It is very sad that so many U.S. citizens and others join them. What in the world attracts them?

I think it does matter where these people were trained so we can locate the larger mass of these groups and wipe them out. I don't think we are going to solve this problem by analyzing what attracts people to join them. You hear over and over again that the people who are radicalized and brainwashed into killing themselves to kill others are young men, loners, quiet, "outcasts". And yet, from what I've read it was being reported that the people being arrested involved in this UK bombing had attended a local mosque. So they were involved in a community and I'm sure had friends. I don't think the excuse of wanting to belong to "something" is a valid excuse.

 

[MamaBelle4]

In my opinion, there is a root cause of this type of evil but nobody wants to say it out of fear of being called a bigot.

The root cause of these terrorist attacks is not what I believe you are alluding to.

It is hatred, fear and anger.

Modern terrorism actually was born in Russia, pre-Revolution. Then it was progressives trying to end the rule of the Romanovs and the oppression of the serfs. (ETA: really former serfs. They had been freed, but were still oppressed and uneducated.) To die for the cause was a noble act because it was for a perceived greater good.

These terrorists brainwash and call it religion, but if you follow the religion, you would no more commit these acts of terror than a modern day Christian would sanction the crusades.

I cannot pretend to know what will cause this to end, it seems everytime a threat is neutralized, a new one appears. But hate, anger and fear are the real enemies here.

 

[erin1715]

The root cause of these terrorist attacks is not what I believe you are alluding to.

It is hatred, fear and anger.

Modern terrorism actually was born in Russia, pre-Revolution. Then it was progressives trying to end the rule of the Romanovs and the oppression of the serfs. To die for the cause was a noble act because it was for a perceived greater good.

These terrorists brainwash and call it religion, but if you follow the religion, you would no more commit these acts of terror than a modern day Christian would sanction the crusades.

I cannot pretend to know what will cause this to end, it seems everytime a threat is neutralized, a new one appears. But hate, anger and fear are the real enemies here.

I respect your opinion, but it's different from mine. And that's okay!

 

[luvsJack]

The root cause of these terrorist attacks is not what I believe you are alluding to.

It is hatred, fear and anger.

Modern terrorism actually was born in Russia, pre-Revolution. Then it was progressives trying to end the rule of the Romanovs and the oppression of the serfs. To die for the cause was a noble act because it was for a perceived greater good.

These terrorists brainwash and call it religion, but if you follow the religion, you would no more commit these acts of terror than a modern day Christian would sanction the crusades.

I cannot pretend to know what will cause this to end, it seems everytime a threat is neutralized, a new one appears. But hate, anger and fear are the real enemies here.

I don't think its necessarily an entire faith/religion. I do believe that it is culture and a certain faction of that religion.

 

[Domo]

Apparently the kid was normal as can be, but smoked pot and changed, starting to hang around with a different set of people etc...

I speculate that he had a reaction to the pot (not uncommon) and started hearing the "voice of God" or Allah or whatever telling him to martyr himself...

 

[luvsJack]

Apparently the kid was normal as can be, but smoked pot and changed, starting to hang around with a different set of people etc...

I speculate that he had a reaction to the pot (not uncommon) and started hearing the "voice of God" or Allah or whatever telling him to martyr himself...

Known many pot smokers in my time, have never heard of anyone ever having this kind of reaction. I do know one person that developed Schizophrenia but the doc said that the pot was laced with something else and it didn't really cause it, the illness was already there, it just brought on the symptoms.

They reported earlier that his father was a part of a group linked to Al Qeada and he is linked to ISIS. The blame should be placed squarely where it belongs regardless of what he thought he heard.

 

[godders]

There are unfortunately small groups in most religions that carry so much hate in their hearts that they are willing to commit acts such as these.

Their leaders are often charismatic and as we know many people find comfort in religion and these leaders and recruiters take advantage of that. Then they turn to fear and violence and small rewards to keep their followers loyal.

 

[Domo]

Known many pot smokers in my time, have never heard of anyone ever having this kind of reaction. I do know one person that developed Schizophrenia but the doc said that the pot was laced with something else and it didn't really cause it, the illness was already there, it just brought on the symptoms.

They reported earlier that his father was a part of a group linked to Al Qeada and he is linked to ISIS. The blame should be placed squarely where it belongs regardless of what he thought he heard.

Not to be a contrary-mouse, but I've seen a LOT of bad reactions... HOWEVER! I have visited numerous psychiatric hospitals as part of training, so I'm heavily biased. There are a number of reactions - allergic reactions, psychotic reactions, reactions to laced drugs... point is, it can happen.

This is actually, IMO, good reason to decriminalise the drug and to police and regulate it. But I won't go into that as we're not meant to initiate debates anymore

 

[Domo]

A number of people have been arrested. The changing of the guards has been cancelled. Armed police, soldiers and helicopters are everywhere. Police have confirmed that they are on to a "network" of perpetrators.

 

[rickybobby]

The 9/11 attackers trained in the US, in FL, at a flight school.

And it was reported by the instructors, as the students were interested in being able to fly the plane, not interested at all in the art of landing. The reports from the instructors were not followed up on. Sad and tragic.

 

[Jdbsfw]

And it was reported by the instructors, as the students were interested in being able to fly the plane, not interested at all in the art of landing. The reports from the instructors were not followed up on. Sad and tragic.

The Pulse Nightclub shooter lied to the FBI (and they knew it) and he still was deemed not a threat.....I understand the "kill em' all" mindset upsets a lot of people but when credible threats are "overlooked" then we aren't serious.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

It's time for action not just trying to understand. There is no understanding someone willing to carry out these heinous acts. I won't sit here and pretend to know what that action should be but taking out as many of their members and training sites as possible sounds like a good start.

Unfortunately the action that is required is something nobody is willing to take on.

Yes, it's time to start targeting the major sites and training centers of these "losers".

The problem is that we play by a different set of rules. We won't hit these targets if we even sniff that an innocent person will be killed.

People with more expertise than posters on a Disney message board are working to stop these groups. People are putting their lives on the line to stop these groups. Maybe we should all remember that and have some respect for what those people do.

Well they can be respected but it must also be acknowledge that they are failing miserably. ISIS is growing, attacks are happening more frequently. So they are losing the war on terror right now.

I also just love the sarcasm and condescension in this thread....like I am some little pee brain who could have no ideas about what could be done to help prevent situations like this. I agree that there are much smarter people than me working on this problem, but can we not exchange ideas on this forum?? Sheesh.

That's what happens on the Dis. FWIW, I agree with you. The ideas that the authorities are currently using seem to be failing horrendously. Whatever your ideas are Erin, I suspect they can't be worse than the ones that are currently being bandied about.

 

[BadPinkTink]

latest FACTUAL news about the incident from SKY NEWS

father and brother of bomber arrested
family originally from Libya
bomber not a lone wolf, was part of a terror cell in Manchester
bomber had links to known terror recruiter

UK Police and Government very angry that crime scene photographs were given by USA Homeland Security to USA Media, and the USA media have now published these photos.
Making this information public could have implications for the ongoing investigation

identities of 16 victims now known

 

[minnie56]

British police aren't sharing intel now , which is likely wise.
They can't afford such leaks.

 

[Geoff_M]

There are unfortunately small groups in most religions that carry so much hate in their hearts that they are willing to commit acts such as these.

We really need to stop kidding ourselves that the group behind these attacks is "small." This isn't the Muslim equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church. They're a pretty sizable organization that has a functioning army (though less so, thankfully, than a couple of years ago) with many thousands of adherents. While they certainly represent a minority view within the Muslim world, don't underestimate the number of people that like their reported goals.

 

[AustinMommyofThree]

This makes me so angry! It's so sad and so upsetting but infuriating. Children killed because of someone's hate to the people of the country that took his family in.

It's easy to say "we have to continue our lives or they win" but at what point do we stop and think that it could be our child next. At what point do we realize that they are winning because they continue to kill innocent people and we just convince ourselves that we should just carry on?

I am sorry that they have reasons to be pulled into these groups. I am sorry they have had a hard life. But when does that give them the right to kill innocent children? At that point personally I stop caring what got them there. They make the choice to join ISIS. They aren't blind nor or they living under rocks. They know what ISIS does. They are making a conscience choice to join a group of corwardly murderers.

It's time for action not just trying to understand. There is no understanding someone willing to carry out these heinous acts. I won't sit here and pretend to know what that action should be but taking out as many of their members and training sites as possible sounds like a good start.

The painful irony is that dozens of schools get shot up in this country and an average of seven children are killed by guns every day (four are murdered), and yet we don't act to change anything, much less take guns away from people who should not have them. You are worried for your children, and what happened in Manchester is truly the horrid work of depraved cowards and we must work to stop future attacks, but guns cause more than two Manchesters's worth of death for innocent children per week in this nation! The odds of a student being killed in school by a gun are still significantly greater in this country than they are of being killed by an ISIL terrorist's bomb, so I think we should devote more attention to the real danger that is before us.

 

[luvsJack]

The painful irony is that dozens of schools get shot up in this country and an average of seven children are killed by guns every day (four are murdered), and yet we don't act to change anything, much less take guns away from people who should not have them. You are worried for your children, and what happened in Manchester is truly the horrid work of depraved cowards and we must work to stop future attacks, but guns cause more than two Manchesters's worth of death for innocent children per week in this nation! The odds of a student being killed in school by a gun are still significantly greater in this country than they are of being killed by an ISIL terrorist's bomb, so I think we should devote more attention to the real danger that is before us.

Not getting in gun debate with you but I could also show you how many children are killed in car accidents every day. Do you wish to give up your car? Do we stop allowing a DUI offenders to own a car? If we wish to make a change in gun violence then we have to come to a happy medium between taking away guns completely and guns getting in the wrong hands.

THIS is about a low life coward joining a group whose sole purpose is to kill as many people in one place as possible (they would have rejoiced in killing many many more than they did). They do it again and again and again. I am not going to back up and decide that its some how less of an issue because of another issue we are facing.

I will say this, look at the school shootings that have taken place since the time of Columbine. One was stopped before he killed himself and before he continued to another building to do more damage. He was stopped due to an Administrator having the needed weapon to stop him.

 

[cabanafrau]

The painful irony is that dozens of schools get shot up in this country and an average of seven children are killed by guns every day (four are murdered), and yet we don't act to change anything, much less take guns away from people who should not have them. You are worried for your children, and what happened in Manchester is truly the horrid work of depraved cowards and we must work to stop future attacks, but guns cause more than two Manchesters's worth of death for innocent children per week in this nation! The odds of a student being killed in school by a gun are still significantly greater in this country than they are of being killed by an ISIL terrorist's bomb, so I think we should devote more attention to the real danger that is before us.

You're relatively new here, so you may not understand that it's completely impossible for anyone to engage in the line of conversation you've outlined because of the rules here.

 

[Geoff_M]

The painful irony is that dozens of schools get shot up in this country and an average of seven children are killed by guns every day (four are murdered)...

Politifact found that statistic to be "Mostly False". To get anywhere close to that number, you have to call 18 and 19 year-olds "children." Even looking at those cases under age 18, the numbers skew to the higher age-range due largely to gang and drug related violence as well as suicides. While "even one a day is too many," it doesn't help your point to use tortured exaggerations.

 

[godders]

We really need to stop kidding ourselves that the group behind these attacks is "small." This isn't the Muslim equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church. They're a pretty sizable organization that has a functioning army (though less so, thankfully, than a couple of years ago) with many thousands of adherents. While they certainly represent a minority view within the Muslim world, don't underestimate the number of people that like their reported goals.

There's about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. They are a small minority who feel this kind of violence is justified and a small minority who are actively involved in this sort of action. Just because someone likes the goals or some of the goals of an organisation doesn't mean they support the methods used to go about them. Nor does it mean they support the group. Heck, there are pledges from certain politicians that I thought were great but it doesn't mean I'd actively go and vote for them.

A quick google search says the highest guestimate of ISIS fighters is 100,000 - that is less than 1% of all Muslims. In fact it's about 0.00625% so it's not even close to half a per cent. We also have no idea how many of those actively fighting truly believe in the fight or are just too afraid to leave because if they try, they will be killed or imprisoned when they returned home. We just don't know. We do know that these groups are using drugged children and animals for many of their suicide bombings so that tells us something about how much they "believe" in the cause.

Seriously, Muslims who believe and actively support ISIS and/or similar groups is probably only about 1% of all Muslims, if that. I imagine it's similar for the number of Christians (or those who claim to be Christian) who believe in violent ends or donate to groups who work against liberties for all.

The problem isn't combating the numbers. Nations against them have enough fire power to blow them off the map. It's how to stop people supporting an ideology which is so difficult. I mean, just look at the fact that victims get Stockholm Syndrome or the millions of people who stay in violent relationships or ignore the signs because the perpetrator is a friend or colleague. Look at the thousands of Europeans who were complicit with the Nazi party or how under Saddam Hussein you had to belong to his political party for fear of repercussions. Or now in Zimbabwe, when you're driving round you need to make sure you make the hand signs to say you support Zanu-PF (Mugabe's party) otherwise you will be in trouble. Fear and manipulation are two very powerful tools and most of us are lucky enough that we have never been put in a position between choosing between the death/torture/incarceration of ourselves, loved ones or other human beings and our morals.

The world and people are too complex to paint with broad strokes.