Expanding Toy Story Mania?

[faneuil]

what could 15% - roughly 10,000 freed up employees...potentially do?

Claim unemployment?

sorry, sorry. I'm a little cynical this AM.

TSMM has two tracks, but one loading area, right? Seems like that was a design flaw from the beginning. I don't see why they don't just duplicate that in SS1, and make 4 tracks with 2 loading areas.

Oh.. new bathrooms! Maybe to look like the inside of the Millennium Falcon? :0

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Claim unemployment?

sorry, sorry. I'm a little cynical this AM.

TSMM has two tracks, but one loading area, right? Seems like that was a design flaw from the beginning. I don't see why they don't just duplicate that in SS1, and make 4 tracks with 2 loading areas.

Oh.. new bathrooms! Maybe to look like the inside of the Millennium Falcon? :0

I honestly don't understand why they have made this mistake multiple times...

And clone brought into wdw should be built x2

In the case of toy story and soarin... They boned that and can't figure out why the line is 75 minutes long.

That's also why radiator springs has NO business being built in Florida...
It would be a nightmare...making it useless to te guest and an expense that doesn't bare fruit for disney

 

[seashoreCM]

Wait a minute!

At least as of 2010 Toy Story Midway Mania had three loading platforms, one for guests with disabilities. The ride vehicles, each with 8 guests in two clusters of 4, all merged into one track for the ride itself. Once inside the ride vehicles traveled in pairs.

Adding a second ride track makes sense.

If there were two complete ride tracks I would not see fit to add a third. Instead it would be better to add a brand new attraction.
(Incorrect information, should be deleted.)

 

[rteetz]

Wait a minute! At least as of 2010 Toy Story Midway Mania had three loading platforms, one for guests with disabilities. The ride vehicles, each with 8 guests in two clusters of 4, all merged into one track for the ride itself. Once inside the ride vehicles traveled in pairs. Adding a second ride track makes sense. If there were two complete ride tracks I would not see fit to add a third. Instead it would be better to add a brand new attraction.

Yes they have two for guests and one for guests with disabilities but the one for disabilities still uses the current two tracks. Adding a third would most likely be for FP only. They wouldn't add a second track because they already have two they are adding a third.

Look up the blueprints and track layout they have those things on the internet there are two tracks. This would be adding a third.

 

[faneuil]

Wait a minute!

At least as of 2010 Toy Story Midway Mania had three loading platforms, one for guests with disabilities. The ride vehicles, each with 8 guests in two clusters of 4, all merged into one track for the ride itself. Once inside the ride vehicles traveled in pairs.

Adding a second ride track makes sense.

If there were two complete ride tracks I would not see fit to add a third. Instead it would be better to add a brand new attraction.

I consider it all one loading platform with three locations. Since all the cars have to travel the same entry path to begin and end the attraction. But once "inside", there's two playing tracks.

Unlike Space Mountain that has two separate, distinct sides. Which is how they should have done it. They then could have had two distinct loading areas, and four playing tracks.

Someone else can probably do a better job of explaining this. Or, find a schematic.

 

[rteetz]

I consider it all one loading platform with three locations. Since all the cars have to travel the same entry path to begin and end the attraction. But once "inside", there's two playing tracks. Unlike Space Mountain that has two separate, distinct sides. Which is how they should have done it. They then could have had two distinct loading areas, and four playing tracks. Someone else can probably do a better job of explaining this. Or, find a schematic.

I agree it's one loading platform that then goes into two separate playing tracks. It's been said that most likely this third track would have its own loading platform.

 

[beer dave]

It does if overhead reduction/labor reallocation is a goal of next gen.

I'm all ears...you're gonna have a ridiculously tough time convincing me to any level of certainty that its NOT the goal.

Now...there's at least one angle that is 100% to the customers benefit...so I'm not judging...

what could 15% - roughly 10,000 freed up employees...potentially do?

It certainly is A goal, not necessarily THE goal. I'm working for "reasonable doubt".

I give up-- what could 15% - roughly 10,000 freed up employees...potentially do? ... That is 100% to the customers benefit? Anything I can come up with benefits both parties. Unless you are thinking they could staff another park, which would be deemed as a non gain for disney... and maybe would be. (a non gain).

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It certainly is A goal, not necessarily THE goal. I'm working for "reasonable doubt".

I give up-- what could 15% - roughly 10,000 freed up employees...potentially do? ... That is 100% to the customers benefit? Anything I can come up with benefits both parties. Unless you are thinking they could staff another park, which would be deemed as a non gain for disney... and maybe would be. (a non gain).

Or significant additions to the existing parks... Or other types of smaller guest venues... Or the elusive boutique park.

 

[beer dave]

Or significant additions to the existing parks... Or other types of smaller guest venues... Or the elusive boutique park.

So do you think these would really be 100 % guest benefit only? I think they would benefit TDO as well.. (unless I am missing your sarcasm?) I mean, they have to do it eventually.... more room capacity, more guest management and infrastructure, then more park..... the smaller venues only will benefit those who chose to pay, and that definitely benefits TDO... the boutique park kind of similar-- lower expense to operate and yes due to MMP they would be (or could be)fully scheduled... I can't come up with a 100% guest change-- unless they drop the prices and start giving things away-- and then the guest experience will suffer because of crowds... huh... raising the prices increases the guest experience.

I'm still happy that I can schedule evening FPP for my arrival day. And my other days where I don't have to get to rope drop. Maybe I'm too easy. F&W tomorrow night for me.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I didnt word that correct... New guest areas provide a "tangible, longterm benefit to the paying public" ...and of course the potential of new revenue streams for Disney. But profit isn't found in the gate fees...and that cost is defined for the consumer I.e. there isn't a potential for at least That cost not to snowball on the Peverlys from Westerville, Oh.

 

[clsteve]

In trying to figure out why a 3rd track would make some sense and why having the 3rd track as a standalone with separate load line makes sense FP+wise, I ran some numbers:

(full credit to bcrook and team on the baseline numbers)

If TSMM has an operational capacity of 900/hr with 2 tracks, that's 11,700 potential riders in a 13 hr day.

The 3rd track increases that operational capacity to 17,500/day

If we assume that Disney has been allocating 70% capacity to FP+ ressies, with currently that's 8,190 to FP and 3,150 SB riders.

Allocating 2 tracks as FP+ and one to SB (with it's own load line) gives 11,700 FP+ riders and 5,850 SB riders. that a FP capacity increase of 30% and an SB capacity increase of 46%.
​

But here's where it works out as a bigger benefit to Disney:

One of the biggest issues for them with the SB and FP methodologies is one of perception caused by high posted SB wait times. It exacerbates the issue of not enough capacity. The SB wait times fluctuate based solely on FP returns - when FP'ers batch up at the beginnings and endings of the return times or CM's don't follow the right merge methodology - big issues.

A static SB line with an organic flow based on ride throughput flattens this out (plus the added capacity, of course).

More importantly, they now have more FP+ ressies available to lock guests in and more than just the organic increase caused by the 3rd track.

Now, they can go the hotel/airline overbooking route without impacting that SB wait time perception.

They have enough data now to have a firm understanding of what their FP+ no-show percentages are. And I'm willing to bet that they're higher in the morning hours and in the evening hours, just due to human behavior.

As a conservative example, if they can overbook by 35% in the first and last hours of the day, 20% the 2nd and 2nd to last hours and 15% each of the remaining, that gives them another 19-20% increase in FP+ reservation capacity.

Add that to the 30% increase created by the 3rd track, you get a 70% increase in virtual FP+ reservation capacity for TSMM after the 3rd track - locking more guests in.

If they have a higher FP+ return rate on a given day, they can dynamically decrease the day of availability (and/or, just let the FP+ line waits go from 20 minutes to 35 minutes) - no SB wait time impact.

So, there's a perception aspect, an increased capacity aspect and a virtual increase of the FP+ pool.

This would also work for Soarin' and the 3rd theater

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If toy story is only 900/hr...then there's the whole issue right there.
Wdw rides need to handle 1800-3000an hour to function effectively just based on raw numbers.

I never knew toy story was that low. It actually makes feel better - as I can't for the life of me figure out why people "mob". It turns out that they really don't.

 

[clsteve]

If toy story is only 900/hr...then there's the whole issue right there.
Wdw rides need to handle 1800-3000an hour to function effectively just based on raw numbers.

I never knew toy story was that low. It actually makes feel better - as I can't for the life of me figure out why people "mob". It turns out that they really don't.

Yeah, it's a very inefficient loader. Doesn't take much to throw the cycle out of whack. We've all seen it. Like when Gramma takes too long to get seated, etc.

Non-issue on the left coast due to many more rides to absorb capacity, lowering the draw, as well.

But looking at what Disney is trying to accomplish at WDW with NextGen and FP+, you can see why adding a 3rd track at TSMM and a 3rd theater for Soarin' aids in their goals vs. adding another attraction.

They're the only attractions with the correct footprint I can think of that gives them the ability to segregate FP+ and SB while adding that virtual capacity they can gain from overbooking without impacting SB.

It's also a lot more cost efficient to blow the dust off of the old plans and build a copy rather than something new. Plus, no extra CM training needed.

Demand is already established for the 2 rides and a 70% virtual increase in Tier 1 FP+ reservations are 70% more guests who's time-in-Park they can manipulate.

Think how much more expensive it would be to design, build, staff and train another true Tier 1 ride from scratch would be........

 

[Lee Matthews]

May be me but i think that once new rides/ lands at DHS open, the lines at TSMM will hugely drop. Until then, it's going to be rough

 

[faneuil]

May be me but i think that once new rides/ lands at DHS open, the lines at TSMM will hugely drop. Until then, it's going to be rough

You're not alone in that thinking.

I know many people don't want carnival style attractions, but I'd like HS to open a few more attractions w/o height requirements that the little ones will be excited about.

Then, do another E ticket attraction, and TSMM should see shorter lines.

 

[rteetz]

You're not alone in that thinking. I know many people don't want carnival style attractions, but I'd like HS to open a few more attractions w/o height requirements that the little ones will be excited about. Then, do another E ticket attraction, and TSMM should see shorter lines.

Not even necessarily an e ticket but something more that the whole family can do. E tickets aren't necessarily for the whole family. So d and c tickets are needed.

 

[clsteve]

Not even necessarily an e ticket but something more that the whole family can do. E tickets aren't necessarily for the whole family. So d and c tickets are needed.

And ones that are crowd eaters - up in the high 2000's per hour like HM and PoTC. They can handle 25,000+ guests per day.

Think what that would mean to a Park like DHS.....

 

[faneuil]

Not even necessarily an e ticket but something more that the whole family can do. E tickets aren't necessarily for the whole family. So d and c tickets are needed.

That's really what I meant, it's just Monday morning.

I'm all about go big or go home with the Studios.

Do some D and C tickets the whole family can do - that everyone would get excited about. These might turn out to be "carnival kiddie rides".

Then do one E ticket - like the much rumored Monster's Inc roller coaster or something.

I'd even like to see a water ride in the studios.

 

[TXOktober]

My fella and I thought that TSM was such a fun ride, we would ride it again and again. However, the competition to ride it was so fierce.

Quite honestly, it seems like this ride could be easily rethemed and you could put more than one in multiple parks. Toy Story, Star Wars, Brave, Monsters Inc., Cars, Bug's Life, etc.

Everyone gets to play and the engineering part is already done, the ride has a relatively small footprint, you are just redesigning the game animation and the look of the queue.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

My fella and I thought that TSM was such a fun ride, we would ride it again and again. However, the competition to ride it was so fierce.

Quite honestly, it seems like this ride could be easily rethemed and you could put more than one in multiple parks. Toy Story, Star Wars, Brave, Monsters Inc., Cars, Bug's Life, etc.

Everyone gets to play and the engineering part is already done, the ride has a relatively small footprint, you are just redesigning the game animation and the look of the queue.

We're a tough crowd around - granted...

But I think we're yearning for more innovation and creativity to be invested in new rides...not less...

Copies of rather pedestrian rides
Like midway mania might set that bar too low...we already have a fleet of spinners