Excessive Closing Fees - Any Advice?

[MouseOfCards]

We just received closing docs from First American Title for our resale transaction and saw that the closing costs (not including the annual dues or the administrative fee paid to broker) totaled $695. We thought that was high and looked back on our contract, where it states "A full closing with title insurance is available for this purchase with an estimated cost of $510." We contacted our broker to see if they could get the title company to lower the fees, but she said that she couldn't help with this since the amount stated on the contract was only an estimate. On our last 2 transactions, the closing costs (through other title companies) for similar cost contracts came to $483 and $420.

Here's a breakdown of the closing fees:

Closing Reserve $50
Search Fee $50
FL Statutory Surcharge $3.28
Courier Fees $50
Closing Services Fee $350
Owner's Title Policy $64
Record Warranty Deed $27
Record Waiver $20
E-Recording Service Fee $3
State Documentary Transfer Tax $78

Any suggestions? What would you do?​

 

[Dean]

We just received closing docs from First American Title for our resale transaction and saw that the closing costs (not including the annual dues or the administrative fee paid to broker) totaled $695. We thought that was high and looked back on our contract, where it states "A full closing with title insurance is available for this purchase with an estimated cost of $510." We contacted our broker to see if they could get the title company to lower the fees, but she said that she couldn't help with this since the amount stated on the contract was only an estimate. On our last 2 transactions, the closing costs (through other title companies) for similar cost contracts came to $483 and $420.

Here's a breakdown of the closing fees:

Closing Reserve $50
Search Fee $50
FL Statutory Surcharge $3.28
Courier Fees $50
Closing Services Fee $350
Owner's Title Policy $64
Record Warranty Deed $27
Record Waiver $20
E-Recording Service Fee $3
State Documentary Transfer Tax $78

Any suggestions? What would you do?​

Did you agree to the title company along the way, if not, see if you can change to a different one. Maybe you could drop the title insurance, this adds costs (for no real benefit). One suggestion for those looking to buy, put a cap on such fees into the contract.

 

[NoodlesMom]

What resale company are you going through? I'm about to sign for a small add a small contract and that amount is also stated in my contract. I'm afraid the same thing may happen. Is it possible to get the exact amount written in the contract?

 

[Dean]

What resale company are you going through? I'm about to sign for a small add a small contract and that amount is also stated in my contract. I'm afraid the same thing may happen. Is it possible to get the exact amount written in the contract?

It's not uncommon for a ceiling to be put on closing costs, I just did this on two Marriott weeks recently. But you do risk the sale since it adds potential costs to the seller or could prevent the sale completely. One can also specify the closing company but many brokers are reluctant to work with companies their not familiar with, understandably so.

 

[ScubaCat]

My most recent closing has "Settlement or closing fee to Magic Vacation Title, LLC $285.60" and the usual title insurance and recording fees. My previous closing was with TTM. They charged $194.58 as a closing fee but also a $75 title search fee. It appears that *** simply built that into their fee rather than itemizing it separately.

In your case, they charged you $350 out the gate, added an additional $50 search fee, then 2 other really suspect ones:

Closing Reserve $50
Courier Fees $50

I'd contact the broker and have them work it out for you. If they can't lower those, perhaps they can facilitate forwarding your deposit to a different title company.

 

[LAX]

How much does FL state law allow the actual cost to deviate from the "estimated" cost? What good is an "estimate" if the final cost is way over that?

LAX

 

[MouseOfCards]

Did you agree to the title company along the way, if not, see if you can change to a different one. Maybe you could drop the title insurance, this adds costs (for no real benefit). One suggestion for those looking to buy, put a cap on such fees into the contract.

When our offer was accepted, the broker asked us to choose between 2 title companies. We asked what the closing fees would be and were told the following:
1. First American Title $450/$510 (w/o and with title insurance)
2. Duncan Title $450/$505
Since we had never heard of Duncan Title, we went with First American. The broker said they were no longer using Vacation World Title, but gave us their fees anyway when we asked:
3. Vacation World Title $375/$530

What resale company are you going through? I'm about to sign for a small add a small contract and that amount is also stated in my contract. I'm afraid the same thing may happen. Is it possible to get the exact amount written in the contract?

Fidelity

My most recent closing has "Settlement or closing fee to Magic Vacation Title, LLC $285.60" and the usual title insurance and recording fees. My previous closing was with TTM. They charged $194.58 as a closing fee but also a $75 title search fee. It appears that *** simply built that into their fee rather than itemizing it separately.

In your case, they charged you $350 out the gate, added an additional $50 search fee, then 2 other really suspect ones:

Closing Reserve $50
Courier Fees $50

I'd contact the broker and have them work it out for you. If they can't lower those, perhaps they can facilitate forwarding your deposit to a different title company.

We did ask the broker for help, but she said that they couldn't help since the quoted amount was only an estimate.

How much does FL state law allow the actual cost to deviate from the "estimated" cost? What good is an "estimate" if the final cost is way over that?LAX

Good question. In our case, the fees charged came out to 36% higher than the quoted amount.

 

[ScubaCat]

Sounds like you'll have to just cough it up or lose the deposit. Bummer. But buyer beware using Fidelity and those title companies in the future. I'll certainly avoid them like the plague.

File a BBB complaint after the transaction is done, and also file one with the Florida attorney general so that others are aware of this little scam. You may consider letting them know you're going to do that if they insist on gouging you like that.

 

[supersnoop]

The reserve will be refunded afterwards. They collect that in case some other amount comes up short.

 

[LAX]

Sounds like you'll have to just cough it up or lose the deposit. Bummer. But buyer beware using Fidelity and those title companies in the future. I'll certainly avoid them like the plague.

File a BBB complaint after the transaction is done, and also file one with the Florida attorney general so that others are aware of this little scam. You may consider letting them know you're going to do that if they insist on gouging you like that.

This is admittedly off-topic, but another thing I found odd with Fidelity (not the one I am currently using) was that it charges what it calls a "document fee" (or something similar that I can't recall exactly at the moment) to the buyer. I thought at the time that any costs (except closing, which is in addition to that document fee) associated with the purchase should be part of the commission being paid by the seller. Perhaps, it may explain why Fidelity has a lower sales commission, which is essentially shifting some of that to the buyer. I understand that one can always ask the seller to cover the "document fee" as part of the negotiation, but I thought it can really catch the unsuspected buyer off guard since I don't believe it's an "industry standard."

LAX

 

[ScubaCat]

That could be part of it. There's a $20 ROFR fee and $150 estoppel fee generally paid for by the seller. I'd be interested to hear from someone who's SOLD a contract through Fidelity recently to see if those are the same.

 

[ScubaCat]

The reserve will be refunded afterwards. They collect that in case some other amount comes up short.

Duh, I can't believe I missed that. Thanks for that clarification. I think I'm overdue for a vacation (may as well use some of these points I spent half my life savings on...)

I added $200 reserve to my latest home purchase for that same purpose. It's actually a pretty smart thing to do so that a small underpayment doesn't hold up the entire closing.

 

[lmkoons]

When our offer was accepted, the broker asked us to choose between 2 title companies. We asked what the closing fees would be and were told the following:
1. First American Title $450/$510 (w/o and with title insurance)
2. Duncan Title $450/$505
Since we had never heard of Duncan Title, we went with First American. The broker said they were no longer using Vacation World Title, but gave us their fees anyway when we asked:
3. Vacation World Title $375/$530


Fidelity


We did ask the broker for help, but she said that they couldn't help since the quoted amount was only an estimate.


Good question. In our case, the fees charged came out to 36% higher than the quoted amount.

I found this info about Fidelity no longer using Vacation World Title very interesting. We're currently working with Fidelity on a resale contract and Vacation World Title was the only title company they offered us. We've had a lot of delays, which have been aggravating to say the least. The seller accepted our offer on 12/31 and we STILL do not have our membership number. When we signed our closing documents and sent them back to Vacation World, we waited for weeks for a response. Eventually, I had to follow up with them to find out what was the delay. They told me the seller was on an extended vacation and wouldn't return for another week. I realize that wasn't the title company's fault, but I feel like they could have at least communicated that with us. Then they supposedly sent our closing documents to DVC on 5/6, yet several weeks later I still hadn't received our membership number in the mail. So I started calling DVC every day and they kept telling me they hadn't received our closing documents yet. Then I contacted Vacation World on 5/16 to see what the hold up was. They assured me that our documents had been sent. Miraculously just 4 days later, DVC finally confirmed they had received our closing documents.....on 5/20! My suspicion is that they never sent our documents to DVC until I followed up with them on 5/16. Our deed was recorded on 5/4 and I've watched people whose deeds were recorded long after that receive their membership numbers. Yet I still haven't gotten anything. Per a call with DVC just this morning, they still don't have me in their system. Every time I contact Fidelity or Vacation World, they always have excuses for the delay. Somehow, the amount of time it takes to add us to DVC's system keeps changing. At first, I was told to allow for 21-28 days. Now it's whopping 30 BUSINESS days. I can't say for sure whose fault these delays are, but I don't see myself using Fidelity or Vacation World Title in the future. The fact that Fidelity appears to no longer use Vacation World Title confirms my suspicions about them.

 

[lmkoons]

For what it's worth, here are our closing fees for our contract with Fidelity. We were quoted at $725 and it ended up being $727, which was pretty close. Our initial quote of $725 included $530 (full closing with title insurance) plus $195 administrative fee. Not sure if these fees are the norm. We didn't really shop around, since we were told Vacation World Title was our only option.

Owner's title insurance - Fidelity National Title Ins. Co $73.60
Title services and lender's title insurance $260.52
Title Search $45.00
FL Title Ins. Surcharge $3.28
Government recording charges $54.00
Transfer taxes $89.60
Additional Recording Fee (Addtl. Names) $2.00
Electronic Recording Fee $4.00
Buyer Admin Fee $195.00

 

[JimMIA]

As far as I know, you can use any title company you want, so there is no need to pay inflated fees. I also agree with Dean that title insurance, while very profitable for the title company , serves little or no purpose with a DVC contract.

They're just taking money out of your pocket...if you let them.

We've used Magic Vacation Title several times with great results and I highly recommend them.

 

[Dean]

As far as I know, you can use any title company you want, so there is no need to pay inflated fees. I also agree with Dean that title insurance, while very profitable for the title company , serves little or no purpose with a DVC contract.

They're just taking money out of your pocket...if you let them.

We've used Magic Vacation Title several times with great results and I highly recommend them.

I doubt they'll use a discounted closing company like LT transfers. I do know some have refused to work with other title companies. I do think there are situations where title insurance is reasonable for DVC but usually it's not. Things like divorce, bankruptcy and the like and if the title insurance is VERY cheap. I'd say look at the specifics but don't do it just because it's fairly cheap comparatively speaking and it makes you fell more secure.

 

[MouseOfCards]

I found this info about Fidelity no longer using Vacation World Title very interesting. We're currently working with Fidelity on a resale contract and Vacation World Title was the only title company they offered us. We've had a lot of delays, which have been aggravating to say the least. The seller accepted our offer on 12/31 and we STILL do not have our membership number. When we signed our closing documents and sent them back to Vacation World, we waited for weeks for a response. Eventually, I had to follow up with them to find out what was the delay. They told me the seller was on an extended vacation and wouldn't return for another week. I realize that wasn't the title company's fault, but I feel like they could have at least communicated that with us. Then they supposedly sent our closing documents to DVC on 5/6, yet several weeks later I still hadn't received our membership number in the mail. So I started calling DVC every day and they kept telling me they hadn't received our closing documents yet. Then I contacted Vacation World on 5/16 to see what the hold up was. They assured me that our documents had been sent. Miraculously just 4 days later, DVC finally confirmed they had received our closing documents.....on 5/20! My suspicion is that they never sent our documents to DVC until I followed up with them on 5/16. Our deed was recorded on 5/4 and I've watched people whose deeds were recorded long after that receive their membership numbers. Yet I still haven't gotten anything. Per a call with DVC just this morning, they still don't have me in their system. Every time I contact Fidelity or Vacation World, they always have excuses for the delay. Somehow, the amount of time it takes to add us to DVC's system keeps changing. At first, I was told to allow for 21-28 days. Now it's whopping 30 BUSINESS days. I can't say for sure whose fault these delays are, but I don't see myself using Fidelity or Vacation World Title in the future. The fact that Fidelity appears to no longer use Vacation World Title confirms my suspicions about them.

Your story is very similar to our previous recent transaction using Vacation World Title (we were not given a choice in title companies). We also saw others whose deeds were recorded after ours that received their membership numbers. Eventually DVC received the docs three and a half weeks after the recording date, and we were told that we needed to wait up to another month! When we complained to the title company, they said they were no longer doing DVC transactions, but gave us a contact at DVC. The DVC rep helped to expedite our file and get our points faster. PM me if you want the contact info and I'll dig it up.

 

[MouseOfCards]

For what it's worth, here are our closing fees for our contract with Fidelity. We were quoted at $725 and it ended up being $727, which was pretty close. Our initial quote of $725 included $530 (full closing with title insurance) plus $195 administrative fee. Not sure if these fees are the norm. We didn't really shop around, since we were told Vacation World Title was our only option.

Owner's title insurance - Fidelity National Title Ins. Co $73.60
Title services and lender's title insurance $260.52
Title Search $45.00
FL Title Ins. Surcharge $3.28
Government recording charges $54.00
Transfer taxes $89.60
Additional Recording Fee (Addtl. Names) $2.00
Electronic Recording Fee $4.00
Buyer Admin Fee $195.00

First American also charged us the $195 administrative fee in addition to the $695 in closing costs. Regarding comparison shopping, for this transaction the broker gave us 2 choices for title companies and when we ask her for the closing costs of each, we were told $510 for First American.

 

[MouseOfCards]

Some additional information:

This transaction was delayed due to First American Title not sending out the closing documents until after multiple attempts to contact them. The broker contacted us three and a half weeks after ROFR was waived to ask if we had received closing docs. When we said no, the broker said that they was strange since they had approved the closing docs already. The broker said they would contact the title company. We also tried calling the title company several times at the number provided by the title rep working on our file, but could not reach anyone. A few days later, we spoke with another broker rep who told us that she would call title immediately and we should expect the docs by the next day. When the docs did not show up, we called the title company again and could not reach anyone. We finally emailed the title rep and cc'd another title person before they sent out the closing docs, almost 2 weeks after the broker said they had approved the documents. The title company apologized, but gave no explanation for the delay.

Regarding the high closing costs, we asked the title company to lower their costs to match the $510 amount quoted in the contract. They said they could not and that the recording fees are the amounts that brought the total over $510, and that amount is required to have the documents recorded at the county.

File a BBB complaint after the transaction is done, and also file one with the Florida attorney general so that others are aware of this little scam. You may consider letting them know you're going to do that if they insist on gouging you like that.

Thanks for the suggestion. We may just do this.

 

[Dean]

Some additional information:

This transaction was delayed due to First American Title not sending out the closing documents until after multiple attempts to contact them. The broker contacted us three and a half weeks after ROFR was waived to ask if we had received closing docs. When we said no, the broker said that they was strange since they had approved the closing docs already. The broker said they would contact the title company. We also tried calling the title company several times at the number provided by the title rep working on our file, but could not reach anyone. A few days later, we spoke with another broker rep who told us that she would call title immediately and we should expect the docs by the next day. When the docs did not show up, we called the title company again and could not reach anyone. We finally emailed the title rep and cc'd another title person before they sent out the closing docs, almost 2 weeks after the broker said they had approved the documents. The title company apologized, but gave no explanation for the delay.

Regarding the high closing costs, we asked the title company to lower their costs to match the $510 amount quoted in the contract. They said they could not and that the recording fees are the amounts that brought the total over $510, and that amount is required to have the documents recorded at the county.


Thanks for the suggestion. We may just do this.

For a 2 page deed and a 2 page ROFR form, recording should be $37 unless there has been a very recent increase in the fees.