Exception to the "Can always make res at home resort 11 mos ahead of check out" rule

[dougmatt]

The ONLY thing I can say is I have tried to do this twice and not been allowed.

In this case, I was not able to make the reservation Nov 20th, but I was able to Dec 2 of the same year. It had nothing to do with the booking windows as it was still > 7months out, but both were less than 11 months. I agree with everyone on this board that I should have been allowed to make the reservation, but I was not. I am sorry, but I do not rememeber the specifics surrounding the first occurance well enough to post dates since it was 5 years ago, but it was similar and I never followed up, just changed my plans.

The original discussion point was would use year affect the 11 month window. I am here to say that it can, does, and has for me on 2 seperate occasions in dealing with MS, and in other occasions in my planning.

Leaving use year numeric dates out of it, if you try and make a booking during the upcoming use year(200a), and you have borrowed all (or most) of your points for the use year in which you are trying to make the reservation(200a), and you wish to borrow from the following use year(200b), then you (might / will?!?!) not be allowed to perform this action by MS.....



As I expressed before, I have found MS to be very inconsistant in their dealings with me. One CM will do something another will not. I thought this was one of those times and asked for the supervisor who reiterated the same message............

 

[Dean]

I do not think it is uncommon for one to get occasional misinformation through MS. They try hard but it must be as confussing for them as it is for most of us. There is no doubt you can borrow from the following use year even if it's more than a year away, don't take no for an answer. The only questions are 1. are you up to date on fees, 2. booking window and home resort priority windows and 3. would the points be available to borrow at the time of the actual planned trip.

As I said, there may be other issues with DCL, DC, CC, etc. If you're combining points from more than one account, that can also complicate the issues.

 

[dougmatt]

You aren't borrowing from the following use year... You are borrowing from the use year that is 2 years away! The points are available to borrow at the planned trip time, but NOT when you are making the booking. The answers to your questions are 1) YES... 2) YES Within the booking window is fine... and 3) YES.
But the answer to "can I book" was NO...

I assure you this last time I didn't take the no for an answer (much more expirienced with MS inconsistancy by this time), but again the supervisor agreed and wouldn't let me book the first time. When I called back in December thay tried to tell me it was calendar based and I REALLY squeeled so the CM got her supervisor off line, came back and agreed to book it, so maybe it is calendar based and I am up against a wall being in Dec. Dunno, but that sounds even more fishy...

 

[gscott8075]

I booked a cruise in 7/2001. The date of our cruise is 6/2002. I borrowed points from 6/2003 use year.

I made a reservation in 8/2001 for HHI. The date of our trip is 7/2002. I borrowed points from my 6/2003 use year.

My use year begins in June.

In both cases, I made the ressies at 11 month window borrowing points ahead one use year and the ressies were made almost two years before the points use year.

The ressie date does not matter for borrowing - the date of the stay does matter. As Dean stated, you can always borrow one full use year ahead.

 

[DVC1996]

Originally posted by Doctor P
I sent this question to MS: with a June use year, can I access my June 2004 points in August 2002 for booking a DCL cruise for July 2003.

Let's see what their response is.

I'm not MS but you should be able to do this based on my own experience. I am a heavy borrower and have never banked points. On 7-9-01 I only had 136 pts left in my March 2002 Use year. I used these pts plus I borrowed 114 pts from my March 2003 Use Year for the Western Caribbean Cruise for June 8, 2002.
( I needed 250 pts for just one person and the other I paid for in cash). I later cancelled this reservation in December which opened a "whole other can of worms". Once borrowed, you can't return these pts to their original use year. I had to use the borrowed pts during the 2002 Use Year. So.....we decided to use 240 pts for both of us for the DVC Cruise on April 7. However, I had 10 pts that I could only use for another cruise, the Disney Collection, Concierge, II......NOT A DVC Resort. So....I borrowed even more pts from my March 2003 Use Year in January 2002 for a one night stay at the Grand Floridian on April 11. Please note that I made both these reservations for 2002 during my 2001 Use Year and was able to borrow 2003 pts.

 

[dougmatt]

Your examples are not the same.. You were always borrowing from the NEXT use year. I was borrowing from not the next, but the one AFTER. ie I was booking a 2002 using 2003 points in NOV 2001 (with a DEC use year).


ARGHH

My use year is Dec so it gets REAL confusing when you talk in calendar dates. Basically you need to borrow not from next year, but the following year to make the reservation (ie 2 years away..). Those points would be available AT THE TIME OF STAY, but NOT at the time of reservation.....

ie had your HHI stay been in 2/2003 and you tried to book in 5/2002 with your use year using 6/2004 points You would not have been able to do it EVEN thought the 2004 points would be available to borrow at the time of stay, they are not available to be borrowed at the time of ressie. You would not be able to book until 6/2004. It has nothing to do with the booking window..

K? See the dif?



I think we're sayig the same things,

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by dougmatt
You aren't borrowing from the following use year... You are borrowing from the use year that is 2 years away!

Since you are borrowing the points to the reservation, you are only borrowing one year away. It doesn't matter if it's 2 years away from when you call them. I've done this a number of times including two MS contacts, 2 time frames and actually 5 units; all within the last 6 months.

Here are excerpts from the email I sent them on 15 November, 2001.

We have confirmed for you two two bedrooms at Disney's Old Key West Resort for arrival October 6, 2002 and departing on October 10, 2002. Each reservation uses 96 Vacation Points..........In order to complete your reservations, we needed to borrow 185 Vacation Points from your August 2003 Use Year. Borrowing is a final transaction. You now have 47 points remaining in this Use Year.

 

[dougmatt]

Your example is not the same either. MS will say sure you can. But try to book in May 2002 (before your use year) using same points June 2004 points for Apr 2003 dates (which would be available to borrow at time of sail) and you cannot.

See the dif?

 

[gscott8075]

Doug, I was just trying to show what I was able to do with borrowing. I was confused by all of the examples - so I thought if I posted mine, it would show what can really happen!

Given your example, I agree - I could not use the points as you describe. If If I wanted to borrow 6/2004 points, the earliest I could use them would be 6/2003. So, MS would properly deny me the reservation. I could make the ressie as early as 7/2001 to take advantage of the 11 month window. The points have to be borrow-able as of the first day of the stay.

Points can only be borrowed one use year ahead.

It is frustrating - best of luck working it out!

 

[Dean]

You can never make reservations more than 1 use year ahead and therefore never borrow more than 2 use years ahead assuming the 11 month window. That should make your use year a non factor. With the special lists/ lottery, you could have ended up reserving 2 use years ahead depending on your use year start date and when you wanted to travel.

 

[gscott8075]

"Your example is not the same either. MS will say sure you can. But try to book in May 2002 (before your use year) using same points June 2004 points for Apr 2003 dates (which would be available to borrow at time of sail) and you cannot"

Doug,

You are correct. You cannot use 6/2004 points prior to 6/2003.

They cannot be used in 4/2003. This is prohibited by the DVC borrowing rules which only permit points to be borrowed one use year ahead.

I am not sure what the confusion is?!?!? : )

 

[Doctor P]

dougmatt,

As others have pointed out, your example is impossible and I understand why MS would deny it. The June 2004 points could only be borrowed for a reservation that would take place between June 1, 2003 and May 31, 2004, so they would never be available for a reservation in April 2003.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

I'm pretty sure that the borrowing rules that we all know to be true are true. That as long as you are booking within your 7/11 windows, you can make a reservation for Year X with borrowed points from Year X+1.

Most of us have already done this, myself included, and have never experienced any problems.

However, I do believe that Dougmatt is experiencing difficulties with trying to do this exact thing through MS. Like I mentioned in a previous post, the EXACT same thing also happened to my Aunt Mamie in the past. She had been told numerous times in the past that during Year X she wouldn't be able to borrow points from Year X+2 for a reservation in Year X+1 until her Year X+1 use year came along. I have no idea why MS told her this.

Until Dougmatt told his tale of woe , I had just assumed she was just confused . But they corroberate (sp?) each others story. So, Dougmatt, I believe you!

Regardless, MS is wrong. Dougmatt should be able to make his transaction (assuming correct years and reservation windows). In fact, Mamie WAS able to borrow correctly for her next trip.

However, dealing with MS can be frustrating even when you're right because THEY are always right even when they are dead WRONG! Reminds me of the post about Richyams' disappearing and reappearing 270 points!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by dougmatt
Your example is not the same either. MS will say sure you can. But try to book in May 2002 (before your use year) using same points June 2004 points for Apr 2003 dates (which would be available to borrow at time of sail) and you cannot.

See the dif?

I knew something wasn't adding up. Am I reading that you're trying to borrow June use year 2004 (in the example) for an April, 2003 reservations? In this example, April 2003 is in the 2002 use year and the answer is NO, Nada, Never, Not in a million years. That would truly be borrowing 2 use years ahead for the reservation itself. You must know the use year you're trying to schedule and not the calendar year.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

Originally posted by dougmatt
Your example is not the same either. MS will say sure you can. But try to book in May 2002 (before your use year) using same points June 2004 points for Apr 2003 dates (which would be available to borrow at time of sail) and you cannot.

See the dif?

I thought I understood your problem but I just read your last post. And I have to agree that in THIS case MS would be absolutely correct.

Can't borrow points for year 6/1/04 - 5/31/05 into year 6/1/02 - 5/31/03 (which is the year a 4/03 trip would be in). Points could only be borrowed into year 6/1/03 - 5/31/04.

And since it could not be done at all, it wouldn't matter if you tried to make the ressie in 5/02 or after 6/02.

I have a December use year also and it is a bit confusing. Maybe that's the problem or you're not explaining the matter to us correctly. Hope you're not getting getting even more frustrated trying to explain your point to us!

 

[dougmatt]

I knew there was a reason I lurk but hardly ever post on this board . I apparently am not explaining correctly.

Actually I think we're all saying the same things, just diferently. Everyone agrees that you cannot borrow more than one year away. However in my specific case (Nov with Dec UY making June ressie) I wasn't allowed to make an 11 month reservation, rather I had to wait until I was in my use year ie after Dec, to borrow points... Which meant I had to miss the 11 month date to make the res ( just over 7 months). Again it could very well be a MS glitch, but this is what happened to me. (twice)

Now it's a little late, but it seems like Dean's MS post is an example of what I am talking about, but the dates are jumbling up...... I'm slipping away!!

I give up No mas!

Good Luck and Good Night!

 

[PKK/MJK]

SleepyatDVC

Your Aunt Mamie wasn't any more confused than I was. We bought our points back in 1993 so we have owned for a looong time too. We have a June use year. It was clearly explained to us that we could not borrow the points from June 2003 (for example) until June 1, 2002. I understood this to mean that we could not make a reservation using those June 2003 points until June 1, 2002. Once I lurked on this board for a while, I understood that the reservation could be made earlier as long as those points were eligible to be borrowed during our actual vacation stay. Now, frankly, I don't know if I totally misunderstood right from the start or if the rules were eased a little.

I frequently borrow points and have never had a problem. I made a ressie in August 2001 for July 2002 using June 2002 points and points borrowed from June 2003.

We also have a December use year. December use years can be tricky since the majority of the use year is the following year. Dec.1, 2001 points go until November 30, 2002--they are considered 2001 use year points but if you are not careful, you tend to think of them as 2002 points.

 

[eva]

After reading all of these posts I am totally confused. We borrow quite often and I have never had a problem. We have a February use year. I made a reservation in November of 2001 for May 2002 and borrowed points from our 2003 use year with no problems at all. With the examples that were given, was I not supposed to be able to borrow the points from February 2003 use year until February of 2002? I've always done it like that and had no trouble at all. I'm still confused about the problem people are having because the dates seem to change on every post.

 

[Dean]

To follow up on my example above. I've actually borrowed almost all of our 500 2003 points from April and August Use years in Oct and Nov of 2001. Previous to that, I borrowed almost all of the 500 points from the 2002 use year while still in 2000.

 

[thepalagis]

I think the confusion is thinking of use years as calendar year (starting in january) instead of a 12 month period starting with your use month. With a December use year and assuming banking and borrowing availability, point would be available as follows:
DEcember 2001 points: 12/00 thru 11/03
(Actual use year is 12/01 thru 11/02 but I've added a year for borrowing and a year for banking.)
December 2002 point: 12/01 thru 11/04
December 2003 points: 12/02 thru 11/05.
Therefore 2003 points would not be available in June 2002 so could not be borrowed.
Somebody correct this if I'm wrong, but with late in the year use months, you almost have to think of the use-year being a year behind all the time.