Evolution vs Creation

[bluefairy13]

No, there's an answer for everything. My MIL is a fundamentalist Christian and she insists that Satan planted the dinosaur bones in order to deceive people. If someone is very firm in their beliefs, no amount of scientific evidence is going to convince them otherwise.

And you know what, that's OK with me. Some pretty strange things have been proven to be true after years of believing something else entirely, so if that's what she believes, God bless her.

 

[salmoneous]

If evolution were true there should be fossil evidence of the ancestor of all dinosaurs. Also, there should be fossil evidence of the intermediary forms of dinosaur. Both of these are non-existent in the fossil record. Dinosaurs appear abruptly and fully formed.

This is simple a false statement.

Faith is a wonderful thing. It stands along. It doesn't need evidence.

If you faith leads you to believe something that doesn't agree with science, fine. But that doesn't mean you have to try and tear down the science - especially if you need to misstate the science in order to attack it.

 

[ford family]

You didn't muster much...

He mustered a lot more than I could have managed.

ford family

 

[Sir Ron]

He mustered a lot more than I could have managed.

ford family

To quote Jules from Pulp Fiction, "I'm trying real hard, ringo" haha

 

[Buckalew11]

No, there's an answer for everything. My MIL is a fundamentalist Christian and she insists that Satan planted the dinosaur bones in order to deceive people. If someone is very firm in their beliefs, no amount of scientific evidence is going to convince them otherwise.

*speaks slowly* Satan planted the dinosaur bones...

I wonder what she thinks of elephants and rhinos and hippos etc. I think they're very prehistoric looking creatures. This is one of the strangest threads I have ever read on the DIS. I am not into creation and evolution stuff so I had no idea that people actually believe these "crazy" thoughts about reality.

 

[Alesia]

Gravity is not a theory.

Yes, it is. Gravitation is a fact, but what causes it is theoretical.

 

[Charade]

Yes it is.

Google "Newton's theory of gravity." You will get a ton of hits that interchangeably talk about Newton's "law" of gravity and Newton's "theory" of gravity. That's because a law and a theory are not really that different.
(Here's an explanation of the difference from a chair of a university biology dept: http://science.kennesaw.edu/~rmatson/3380theory.html)



I don't know where the idea that anything in science is "just a theory." If something is a scientific theory (gravity, relativity, quantum mechanics, plate tectonics) that means it is well supported by evidence, is accepted by the vast majority of scientists in the field, and helps unify the field by explaining the phenomena it does. There is no "just". Ideas in science could be "just" a hypothesis if it hasn't stood up to rigorous testing yet. But evolution isn't a hypothesis because it has stood up to such testing. So if evolution is "just a theory" so is gravity.

If you go by the statement in the link that says both theory and law can be shown to be wrong if future data shows it then anything in science could possibly be proved wrong at some point whether it's currently considered a law or theory. It's that level of possiblity of being proved wrong that (IMO) distinguises the difference between a law and a theory. We can demostrate the unlikely possiblility of a science law being proved wrong more so than we can a theory.

And of course we all know that gravity sucks.

 

[Charade]

No, there's an answer for everything. My MIL is a fundamentalist Christian and she insists that Satan planted the dinosaur bones in order to deceive people. If someone is very firm in their beliefs, no amount of scientific evidence is going to convince them otherwise.

Why would he do that? Can she explain the need for Satan to deceive true believers in such a way?

 

[Laura]

Yes, it is. Gravitation is a fact, but what causes it is theoretical.

Similarly, evolution is a fact, but how it works is what the theory tries to explain.

 

[mimmom]

cool song. I have new respect for Barenaked Ladies.

Here are a couple of songs I like that are about evolution, sort of.

There are a few songs that are about evolution that I really like. Devo did one called Jocko H*M*: (this is not a bad word! It's part of homosapiens-the human race and it is to that word that they refer and nothing to do with the slang meaning of that word). UGH. Anyway, it gets blocked. I looked and looked at these songs before posting and didn't see anything in it that would be offensive and totally missed the one thing the censor didn't like because I don't use that word in the slang meaning! LOL. I think it's a Greek prefix. Homogenized milk...it means "same" I think. Homogenized milk has something done to it so that when you drink it, it tastes the same and has the same consistency throughout.

THEY TELL US THAT
WE LOST OUR TAILS
EVOLVING UP
FROM LITTLE SNAILS
I SAY IT'S ALL
JUST WIND IN SAILS
ARE WE NOT MEN?
WE ARE DEVO!
WE'RE PINHEADS NOW
WE ARE NOT WHOLE
WE'RE PINHEADS ALL
JOCKO H*M*
ARE WE NOT MEN?
D-E-V-O
MONKEY MEN ALL
IN BUSINESS SUIT
TEACHERS AND CRITICS
ALL DANCE THE POOT
ARE WE NOT MEN?
WE ARE DEVO!
ARE WE NOT MEN?
D-E-V-O
GOD MADE MAN
BUT HE USED THE MONKEY TO DO IT
APES IN THE PLAN
WE'RE ALL HERE TO PROVE IT
I CAN WALK LIKE AN APE
TALK LIKE AN APE
I CAN DO WHAT A MONKEY CAN DO
GOD MADE MAN
BUT A MONKEY SUPPLIED THE GLUE
WE MUST REPEAT
O.K. LET'S GO!

Big Bang Theory by Barenaked Ladies.

Our whole universe was in a hot dense state,
Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started. Wait...
The Earth began to cool,
The autotrophs began to drool,
Neanderthals developed tools,
We built a wall (we built the pyramids),
Math, science, history, unravelling the mysteries,
That all started with the big bang!

"Since the dawn of man" is really not that long,
As every galaxy was formed in less time than it takes to sing this song.
A fraction of a second and the elements were made.
The bipeds stood up straight,
The dinosaurs all met their fate,
They tried to leap but they were late
And they all died (they froze their ___ off)
The oceans and pangea
See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya
Set in motion by the same big bang!

It all started with the big BANG!

It's expanding ever outward but one day
It will cause the stars to go the other way,
Collapsing ever inward, we won't be here, it wont be hurt
Our best and brightest figure that it'll make an even bigger bang!

Australopithecus would really have been sick of us
Debating out while here they're catching deer (we're catching viruses)
Religion or astronomy, Encarta, Deuteronomy
It all started with the big bang!

Music and mythology, Einstein and astrology
It all started with the big bang!
It all started with the big BANG!


(sorry - just wanted to sing this song for you all)

 

[mimmom]

Einstein had some sort of argument with someone about science and religion. I wish I could remember it. Anyway, his response to it was "Who are you to tell god what to do."

I'm an atheist, I believe there is no god. But if there was a god, I should think the creation of evolution by that god would be a possibility. One who is religious can't POSSIBLY believe that their omnipotent god incapable of something. There are patterns in all the physical evidence that man can touch and see and experience. This might point to what happened right at the start. It's pretty much all we have in the scientific community. Science does not content itself with faith. It tries to find the answers it is able to find with tangible evidence. Faith is left to religion. Some scientists are also religious and are able to find ways to make the two things compatible. Believing that a god can cause evolution to happen if god so chooses is one way of rationalizing it.

Being atheist, for me, does not mean having anything against religion or religious people or any gods of any sort. It just means I believe in one fewer god than some other people. Sometimes people ask me what I have against god. I have nothing against "god" as others define him, her, it, whatever. It's impossible to have something against what one believes does not exist.

Anyway, please don't flame me or try to convince me that I'm wrong and I won't try to dissuade anyone here from their beliefs. If someone is happy in their beliefs I don't feel it's my place to try to make them believe otherwise. I do think it's nice when people use their "god given" ability to think and reason to figure out how the world works. I don't think science and thought and questioning is a bad thing. It's gotten us where we are right now. Without technology would Disney Theme Parks even exist?

Miriam

 

[kmbound]

With as much respect as one can possibly muster, you might want to check into the availability of a refund on that education you're allegedly getting.

She is speaking truth as depicted in the Bible here. This viewpoint accurately portrays what is believed by around the world and although you may not agree it is in line with Genesis and creation and the flood as recorded in Genesis 6.

EVERY known civilization in the history of our world has one and only one story that is told amongst all of them in their writings/cave scribings/sanscrit/parchments or whatever form of communication they used - that story is of a world wide flood and it is the only story that is consistent to every civilization.

Please do not resort to sarcasm and the hindrances of others beliefs. Either state what you believe for others to ponder or leave the conversation. Either way, at least take the opportunity presented to educate yourself on both viewpoints. Links have been previously posted to quality websites to help you do so.

 

[kmbound]

No reason to wonder. Of course there are folks who believe in evolution and God. I'd guess most folks who believe in evolution believe in God.

Evolution and religion are separate - one doesn't support or contradict the other.

You can believe in God, and not believe that the story He gives us in the Bible are meant to be taken literally.

This is true - there are people who believe much, if not all, of the bible is allegorical in nature and not literal. Also, the belief you alluded to where people believe that God created and then let it evolve from that point forward is called Theistic Evolution and is also a widely held belief.

 

[kmbound]

Anyway, please don't flame me or try to convince me that I'm wrong and I won't try to dissuade anyone here from their beliefs. If someone is happy in their beliefs I don't feel it's my place to try to make them believe otherwise. I do think it's nice when people use their "god given" ability to think and reason to figure out how the world works. I don't think science and thought and questioning is a bad thing. It's gotten us where we are right now. Without technology would Disney Theme Parks even exist?

Miriam

Thanks for a great, intelligent post. Couldn't have said it better myself. And remember I am on the complete opposite side of the fence from atheism but at least we can agree on some things. One of which wdw is awesome and oen of the happiest places on earth.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

I had a friend in college. She was very intelligent. She went on to work for NASA. She was also raised fundamentalist. One day, when we were talking of religious thngs (as often happens in college), she stated that she didn't know why humans couldn't have existed in one part of the world long ago, and Dinosaurs in another. I, being the resident biology major, explained to her simply, and with no pretention, that dino bones have been found on all continents, including Antarctica. Afterwards she was quiet, thinking about it. We never brought it up again and eventually she stopped dating my best guy friend and we all moved on.

I always wondered if that simple conversation had changed her mind about her religion, or whether there's some tech wandering around NASA who still believes evolution is a crock.

 

[salmoneous]

EVERY known civilization in the history of our world has one and only one story that is told amongst all of them in their writings/cave scribings/sanscrit/parchments or whatever form of communication they used - that story is of a world wide flood and it is the only story that is consistent to every civilization.

This is simply not true.

 

[kmbound]

This is simply not true.

I believe it to be true - check it out some and post some solid evidence to the contrary if it is not.

 

[Planogirl]

Floods have been relatively common over time so I don't have a problem believing that such a thing happened. I read fairly recently that a "world-wide" flood would likely only pertain to a small area or the world as the people in that area saw it. Keep in mind that most ancient people had no idea what was out there but existed in a very small area.

 

[salmoneous]

I believe it to be true - check it out some and post some solid evidence to the contrary if it is not.

With all due respect, you made the original claim. Why do you believe it to be true? Can you provide us the support that led you to believe it to be true?

It's much easier for you to show that it is true, than it is for me to prove the negative. Proving negatives is hard. But searching shows no support for your claim. There are many reports that lots of cultures have flood myths. But none claming that every society has a world-wide flood myth. Nor any claims that it's the only universal myth.

 

[goofygirl]

I had a friend in college. She was very intelligent. She went on to work for NASA. She was also raised fundamentalist. One day, when we were talking of religious thngs (as often happens in college), she stated that she didn't know why humans couldn't have existed in one part of the world long ago, and Dinosaurs in another. I, being the resident biology major, explained to her simply, and with no pretention, that dino bones have been found on all continents, including Antarctica. Afterwards she was quiet, thinking about it. We never brought it up again and eventually she stopped dating my best guy friend and we all moved on.

I always wondered if that simple conversation had changed her mind about her religion, or whether there's some tech wandering around NASA who still believes evolution is a crock.

It always amazes me how highly intelligent and scientific people can take the Bible literally.
I can't see NOT believing in evolution. There's physical evidence, whereas there's not physical evidence of Adam and Eve or a Garden of Eden.

Dinosaurs and people coexisted on only one place- and that place is onThe Flintstones!

This is not to say that you can't be spiritual, a Christian AND a scientist. The Presiding Bishop of my denomination was a marine biologist before her pastoral career. I just think there should be a good balance between scripture and logic.