Even Disney Is Worried About the High Cost of a Disney Vacation

Happiness and nostalgia. Disney captures some happy moments, and the nostalgia factor keeps people coming back. Notice the backlash whenever Disney makes a change. For example, The Great Movie Ride was a dated, expensive ride waning in popular facing tens of millions in maintenance costs (the track and ride vehicle system needed replacement). Disney choose to invest in a new ride experience that’s much more popular, but a large subset of Disney fans are unhappy because years of memories were lost.
I was pretty upset to see it go myself, but I understand the maneuver from a business perspective. On top of that I always remind myself that Walt did not want the parks to become museums and you shouldn't get in the way of progress. With that understanding it becomes a lot more palatable when they do make a maneuver (at least for me)
 
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I think the "walking into the cartoon" conceit is at least a nod to having MMRR in a theater. Given the reality of what they had to work with, I think they did a halfway decent job of it.

I also think MMRR is a strict upgrade over GMR---especially given the number of effects that were apparently very hard to keep up.

The one concern I have is that Disney shouldn’t be just another theme park
I think that's unlikely. The only other company that comes close to this experience is Universal. And, they do a very good job. But it not as though the Disney parks will start to look like Dollywood, let alone Cedar Fair/Six Flags.

And I love me some Cedar Flags. Love. It. I'm planning on hitting Great America, Knotts, and Magic Mountain this year in addition to my home park at Cedar Point. But they are fundamentally different experiences.
 
I think the "walking into the cartoon" conceit is at least a nod to having MMRR in a theater. Given the reality of what they had to work with, I think they did a halfway decent job of it.

I also think MMRR is a strict upgrade over GMR---especially given the number of effects that were apparently very hard to keep up.


I think that's unlikely. The only other company that comes close to this experience is Universal. And, they do a very good job. But it not as though the Disney parks will start to look like Dollywood, let alone Cedar Fair/Six Flags.

And I love me some Cedar Flags. Love. It. I'm planning on hitting Great America, Knotts, and Magic Mountain this year in addition to my home park at Cedar Point. But they are fundamentally different experiences.

The theater at Disneyland is better - they created the "El Capitoon" theater with an animated look and the queue has lots of actual props from movies like Fantasia and Mickey and the Beanstalk. It's great!

I like MMRR, and I also liked Great Movie Ride. Sometimes things change. They may not have done what I would have done, but I can still enjoy it.
 
There's cost...and then there's value. I don't mind paying extra if I see a value. I've never complained about the actual price of WDW. But, I have complained about the value that I'm getting. Sure, everything is going up in price. But a national park is not going to go through major changes. Any price increases may be related to maintenance and conservation. You're getting the same experience, you're just paying more. I'd be fine with that at WDW.
This is just my personal opinion. Some people love the changes and I'm happy for them. But, for us...this is the first time in a decade that we don't have an upcoming trip booked.
 

I think there’s more to it than that…

The Great Movie Ride was set in a recreation of an iconic theatre… While there you watched scenes and moments from great movies…

Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railroad does not need to be set in a theatre at all… Despite attempts to make it seem sensical by showing all these Mickey and Minnie movie posters inside, it doesn’t really make sense why you are walking through a theatre to get there… Also, I am convinced a huge part of the popularity/long waits is because well, there isn’t much else for little kids to do at Disney’s MGM Studios… I don’t think the waits would be as severe if that ride were in the Magic Kingdom.

It was expensive to run and operate, and if it wasn’t popular, it makes sense to get rid of it.

This is a conundrum Disney has with many of the more show-style attractions right now. The country bears don’t pack them in at all, the Muppets are being replaced because there is never ending seating available every time I go in there… Walt knew things needed to change, and the park couldn’t stand still. The one concern I have is that Disney shouldn’t be just another theme park…
I was 7 when I first rode GMT, shortly after the park opened. I did not see most of the movies until I was in college and took film class. And that was 25 years ago. GMR was still enjoyable, but it’s not hard for me to understand why it was so unpopular with younger people. The films they’re watching in film class today.. are probably the ones I grew up with.

Sounds like the maintenance costs of GMR became unbearable. MMRR was allegedly brainstormed during New Fantasyalnd and the idea was recycled as they could duplicate into DLR, this lowering the development costs. As much as people complain about Disney and reminisce about the “magical days” … 1990s and 2000s Disney would’ve kept GMR open as a seasonal attraction with limited hours, then let it rot for years until they came up with a replacement. I still cringe every time I look at the loading area for Rocket Rods.
 
I think there’s more to it than that…

The Great Movie Ride was set in a recreation of an iconic theatre… While there you watched scenes and moments from great movies…

Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railroad does not need to be set in a theatre at all… Despite attempts to make it seem sensical by showing all these Mickey and Minnie movie posters inside, it doesn’t really make sense why you are walking through a theatre to get there… Also, I am convinced a huge part of the popularity/long waits is because well, there isn’t much else for little kids to do at Disney’s MGM Studios… I don’t think the waits would be as severe if that ride were in the Magic Kingdom.

It was expensive to run and operate, and if it wasn’t popular, it makes sense to get rid of it.

This is a conundrum Disney has with many of the more show-style attractions right now. The country bears don’t pack them in at all, the Muppets are being replaced because there is never ending seating available every time I go in there… Walt knew things needed to change, and the park couldn’t stand still. The one concern I have is that Disney shouldn’t be just another theme park…
I agree with you primarily, i just wouldn't say they're becoming another theme park. The amount of theming and storytelling is still going strong, it's possible people don't like the stories being told (par for the course lately) but compared to your run of the mill theme parks it's far superior
 
There's cost...and then there's value. I don't mind paying extra if I see a value. I've never complained about the actual price of WDW. But, I have complained about the value that I'm getting. Sure, everything is going up in price. But a national park is not going to go through major changes. Any price increases may be related to maintenance and conservation. You're getting the same experience, you're just paying more. I'd be fine with that at WDW.
This is just my personal opinion. Some people love the changes and I'm happy for them. But, for us...this is the first time in a decade that we don't have an upcoming trip booked.

I do agree with you on value. I have never minded paying premium prices for a premium experience. While I don't think that Disney is necessarily below par yet, the cracks are starting to show. The number one key for me is staff, staff, staff! More cast members will aleviate almost every problem, be they front line, entertainers, or maintenance personnel. This trying to get by with bare-bones staffing (by Disney standards) has gotten old. Covid was five years ago, folks!
 
I do agree with you on value. I have never minded paying premium prices for a premium experience. While I don't think that Disney is necessarily below par yet, the cracks are starting to show. The number one key for me is staff, staff, staff! More cast members will aleviate almost every problem, be they front line, entertainers, or maintenance personnel. This trying to get by with bare-bones staffing (by Disney standards) has gotten old. Covid was five years ago, folks!
Yes! And more staff that actually WANTS to be there. We have run into more surly front line staff in the last few years than the prior few decades!
 
Yes! And more staff that actually WANTS to be there. We have run into more surly front line staff in the last few years than the prior few decades!
I agree about the staffing, the problem is that Florida minimum wage is $14.00 ($8.46 in 2019 which is roughly a 40% increase) so Disney has to drive up their rate of pay to actually entice people to work for them. This puts a wrench in hiring levels as they'd have to increase prices to bring in the same number of workers they had pre-pandemic which ultimately leads to people complaining that they are paying way more for at best the same value they used to get. Ultimately this isn't just a pandemic issue but became an issue because of the pandemic for sure.
 
Yes! And more staff that actually WANTS to be there. We have run into more surly front line staff in the last few years than the prior few decades!
I actually think the cast members are like that because they are dealing with a more and more demanding and angry public every day. Part of the extra demands placed on them by having a low staff to guest ratio means they are spread a little thin. The rising prices make guests feel more entitled and it makes guests feel justified about their bad behavior when things aren’t completely magical.
 
The staffing concerns are what has me most intrigued about the pending opening of Epic Universe. Will there be any drop off of entertainment/operations at USF/IOA because the staffing needs for all of those parks aren’t able to be met and Universal/Comcast would be more content to have things fall off at the older rather than the shiny new toy.
 
I actually think the cast members are like that because they are dealing with a more and more demanding and angry public every day. Part of the extra demands placed on them by having a low staff to guest ratio means they are spread a little thin. The rising prices make guests feel more entitled and it makes guests feel justified about their bad behavior when things aren’t completely magical.
I think entitlement this day age is way more than a Disney issue, i wouldn't associate it with price it's more tightly woven into todays culture then ever before. I do agree that people are too demanding, and that Disney always (at least to me) had an unspoken contract with it's guests that everyone needed to pitch in to create that magic including guests, it just feels like today there's a lot of "dance puppet" in the parks aka people not treating cast members like people.
It's really sickening to see people unload on cast members because their expectations are so far out of line and they just expect to get whatever they complain about
 
I agree about the staffing, the problem is that Florida minimum wage is $14.00 ($8.46 in 2019 which is roughly a 40% increase) so Disney has to drive up their rate of pay to actually entice people to work for them. This puts a wrench in hiring levels as they'd have to increase prices to bring in the same number of workers they had pre-pandemic which ultimately leads to people complaining that they are paying way more for at best the same value they used to get. Ultimately this isn't just a pandemic issue but became an issue because of the pandemic for sure.
Most jobs at WDW are union and will pay at least $24 by next October. That’s pretty remarkable in Florida, which has long been known to have weak wages, especially in professional gigs. WDW employees will likely earn more than their DLR counterparts in the early years of their next contract.
 
The staffing concerns are what has me most intrigued about the pending opening of Epic Universe. Will there be any drop off of entertainment/operations at USF/IOA because the staffing needs for all of those parks aren’t able to be met and Universal/Comcast would be more content to have things fall off at the older rather than the shiny new toy.

Staffing issues are a fallacy on this forum. WDW and Universal pay union rates that are well above state minimums. Both resorts have very few non-skilled/ professional job openings. Any “staffing shortages” are manufactured by the parks to control labor cost.

Last year, Disneyland employees negotiated a new contract that saw immediate steep pay increases. Unsurprising, DLR responded by cutting labor hours. All I read is how labor shortages are impacting the parks. Yet employees complain about their hours being cut and there are literally zero job openings for non-skilled. Hmmm…
 
The rising prices make guests feel more entitled and it makes guests feel justified about their bad behavior when things aren’t completely magical.
I think these guests are just pure clowns and would bark at a one penny increase. No one is entitled to treat others badly no matter how much they pay.
 
Staffing issues are a fallacy on this forum. WDW and Universal pay union rates that are well above state minimums. Both resorts have very few non-skilled/ professional job openings. Any “staffing shortages” are manufactured by the parks to control labor cost.

Last year, Disneyland employees negotiated a new contract that saw immediate steep pay increases. Unsurprising, DLR responded by cutting labor hours. All I read is how labor shortages are impacting the parks. Yet employees complain about their hours being cut and there are literally zero job openings for non-skilled. Hmmm…
Disney sets a labor budget, the unions can pressure them by raising wages. But for every action......
 
I did not mean to give the impression that there are a lot of surly cast members, it is still a minuscule percentage but it is definitely more than pre-covid days. I have walked away from a register or hotel desk, more than a few times, wondering how a manger could have possibly thought that person was a good fit for a customer facing spot.

I just know that WDW could do better hiring people that want to be there - the booming suburbs around WDW are full of newly empty nesters and retirees that would love to provide the magic that they experienced with their kids (and get paid $20+/hr to do it). But as someone said, there are never any postings for those customer facing positions.
 
I did not mean to give the impression that there are a lot of surly cast members, it is still a minuscule percentage but it is definitely more than pre-covid days. I have walked away from a register or hotel desk, more than a few times, wondering how a manger could have possibly thought that person was a good fit for a customer facing spot.

I just know that WDW could do better hiring people that want to be there - the booming suburbs around WDW are full of newly empty nesters and retirees that would love to provide the magic that they experienced with their kids (and get paid $20+/hr to do it). But as someone said, there are never any postings for those customer facing positions.

You’re seeing things that never existed. People are people - they’re going to have their good days and their bad days. Some will give more attention to certain guests (maybe kids, or somebody with a pin or accessory that caught their attention ton, or maybe young males flirting with young females, etc.) that make us feel left out. But ultimately, if you’re not up to Disney’s standards, you’re not going to maintain employment.

My brother and I grew up in the 90s and a running joke between us was the power trips Disney operators sometimes displayed - for example, on an attraction like Space Mountain where it’s hard to hear, we might have thought they asked us how many and I’d blurt out two and the ride operator would scream “I didn’t ask you!” Books like Mouse Tales series had interviews with CM where they bragged they’d give priority to pretty girls and make guest of size/etc. wait extra longer.

A few weeks ago, a Reddit user claimed they just got back from DLR and the employees did not meet Disney standards - they all seemed to hate their job whereas they never felt that about a WDW CM, who are always perfect. Meanwhile, the same week, somebody started a thread on these forums claiming the exact opposite.

Sometimes when we’re more invested in the fantasy and magic… we see things for how they’re not. At the end of the day, people are people.
 












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