Even after Neat Image photos are still grainy?

[Tiger926]

I have had a ton of problems with my Epson Picturemate Deluxe over the past several months since I got it (other DISers have even helped me by printing images for me). I also got a new Panasonic Lumix FZ-30 camera - too much, too soon. My photos are grainy, so I'm trying to deal with that, so in the meantime, I've applied Neat Image filter to my pics - on the screen they look plastic (I applied a high amount on purpose to test my printer), yet they still print out grainy. Does this mean there is definitely something wrong with my printer? I only use Picturemate paper or Epson Premium Glossy (my pics seem to print out bette on Premium paper which Epson recommends when we run out of Picturemate paper).

I've contacted Epson a ton of times, and even though my printer is only 6 months old, they don't care to help. I don't have anything to go by as no one I know has a Picturemate, and no store in my city has one on display either (I actually had to purchase mine in the U.S.). So, for those who use Neat Image, if I don't get a print out of what is on screen after filter has been applied, does this mean there is definitely something wrong with my printer?

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated, Tiger

 

[boBQuincy]

I don't have an Epson printer and it is difficult to do these kind of things remotely, so I am going to start with some generic parameter questions.

At what size were the images taken?
What ISO?
What quality?
How many MB are the images?
How does the histogram look?
Did you apply any exposure compensation to the images in editing?

At what size are you printing them?
How many dpi?

Have you downloaded a known good test image and printed it?
At 300 dpi?

Hopefully these questions will lead to some answers that can help.

 

[pxlbarrel]

Are the photos actually "grainy"? Can you post an example so we can take a look and see if the photo is salvagable?

I have to admit that I gave up printing my own photos a while ago. I could never be satisfied with what was coming out. I came to the conclusion that it was cheaper to get prints done from a store...and the results would be as if I had printed from film.

 

[Mickey's old friend]

Tiger, how do you like your camera? I just bought a new FZ50, the battery is charging. I hope to play with it tomorrow. Do you like the quality of zoomed images?

Linda

 

[rtphokie]

Try Noisware Community Edition. It's free. I've had much better results with Noiseware. Even with 1600 ISO shots or even low light shots with a 2MP camera.

download here

 

[fitzperry]

Have you had any of the same images printed professionally for comparison purposes? I would try that in an effort to ascertain whether it is a printer problem or a camera problem (is it possible you have the resolution on a lower quality setting?)

I've also used the Noiseware community edition with some success on low light, high ISO shots.

I also briefly had a PictureMate, but I wasn't thrilled. The pictures weren't grainy exactly, but if I remember correctly the colors were very unsaturated, and I seemed to lose a lot of detail in both the shadows and highlights.

 

[0bli0]

Noiseware is a very good program. i'd recommend using it on a copy of your image from *before* you applied NeatImage. Can you post a copy of the photo?

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks to all for your quick replies. I am upstairs getting ready for bed, so I will post more info tomorrow when I am in front of my laptop. I can tell you this:

- images are all set to best compression
- shooting at 5mps right now (this camera has the ability to change with highest being 8mps)
- 80 ISO
- images are between 3-4 mb in size
- most settings are set to standard
- printing sizes: wallet, 3.5x5 or 4x6 only on Picturemate
- DPI 72 (this is coming straight from camera - my old Canon A60 is set for 180 - why the difference?)
- had same photo printed at Costco and it turned out nicely - it had what appeared to be a smooth filter over it, so no grain, but my Picturemate photos were more clear and vibrant, but grainy

I don't do hardly any editing at all. I've been blowing my images up to 100%, and can see the grainy images - inside is worst, with skin tones and walls always coming out grainy. Although I printed what looked to be a good photo of us in front of the castle tonight, and I can see grainy images on our necks, arms and legs Picturemates are supposed to be idiot proof - but not in our case. We feel so stupid as we are so computer savvy - 3 home computers, 3 digital cameras, 4 home printers. We love our toys, but this camera and printer combination has brought us nothing but stress for the past 6 months. I am a scrapbooking consultant so since print longevity is of the utmost importance to me, I started printing my own photos as they will more than likely last longer than wet chemistry prints.

Thanks for all assistance. I can see about posting an image tomorrow (I have to run it by hubby first).

Tiger

 

[pxlbarrel]

Thanks to all for your quick replies. I am upstairs getting ready for bed, so I will post more info tomorrow when I am in front of my laptop. I can tell you this:

- images are all set to best compression
- shooting at 5mps right now (this camera has the ability to change with highest being 8mps)
- 80 ISO
- images are between 3-4 mb in size
- most settings are set to standard
- printing sizes: wallet, 3.5x5 or 4x6 only on Picturemate
- DPI 72 (this is coming straight from camera - my old Canon A60 is set for 180 - why the difference?)
- had same photo printed at Costco and it turned out nicely - it had what appeared to be a smooth filter over it, so no grain, but my Picturemate photos were more clear and vibrant, but grainy

I don't do hardly any editing at all. I've been blowing my images up to 100%, and can see the grainy images - inside is worst, with skin tones and walls always coming out grainy. Although I printed what looked to be a good photo of us in front of the castle tonight, and I can see grainy images on our necks, arms and legs Picturemates are supposed to be idiot proof - but not in our case. We feel so stupid as we are so computer savvy - 3 home computers, 3 digital cameras, 4 home printers. We love our toys, but this camera and printer combination has brought us nothing but stress for the past 6 months. I am a scrapbooking consultant so since print longevity is of the utmost importance to me, I started printing my own photos as they will more than likely last longer than wet chemistry prints.

Thanks for all assistance. I can see about posting an image tomorrow (I have to run it by hubby first).

Tiger

Are you printing the image when it's 72 dpi? If you are, that could be part of your problem right there. You should be printing 300 dpi...sometimes you can get away with 200 but 300 is usually the norm. If the image you've downloaded from your camera is 72 dpi, you need to resize it to 300 dpi. Your print size will decrease as you do this.

If you're already doing this...ok...then it's something else. Of course, if you're sending the exact image to be printed by a commercial lab, it must not be it either if those images are ok.

 

[0bli0]

grainy as in digital noise? or do you mean a bit blocky, chunky, and generally not sharp details and smooth curves and tones?

 

[Tiger926]

obli0 - That's a good question! We are assuming it's digital noise as we never had this with our other digital cam - Canon A60. We can see grainy dots (again, not sure if this is the right word) in flesh tones - walls, skies, necks, faces, arms and legs. Not sure if this description helps or not.

Regaring the DPI issue - I have changed my photos (when I first got printer) to 300 DPI and it made no difference. This printer advertises that Grandma can use it - just hook up to computer or print from memory card and go! It shouldn't need to have DPI changed as most people wouldn't know how to do that, right? I know there is still so much confusion regarding DPI vs. PPI, but honestly, I've done it, and it made no difference, but I'll do it again tonight.

Thanks again for all help. I'm on my way to work, so I'll post more later after I do some more troubleshooting.

Tiger

 

[Groucho]

My father's Canon printer used to do exactly the same thing. Folks - it's the printed image, not the camera or original image.

Curiously enough, he switched to an Epson printer and things are much better. (Which I was glad about, as I am a fan of Epson printers and scanners.)

Anyway, I know exactly what the OP is talking about - dark dots on flesh tones, etc - things that don't seem to exist in the orgiinal photo. They look fine from a distance but if you get up close, you see terrible splotches.

I don't remember exactly what we did, but you may want to try fiddling with different printer settings. Make sure that the paper type is picked correctly. Try different quality settings. What software are you printing with? Maybe try using something else, like IrfanView which has many printing options.

If I think of it, I'll try to ask my father next time I speak to him if he remembers exactly how we fixed the problem, if it really did go away as soon as he switched to the Epson, or there was some other setting that was changed. I know the stuff he prints out now on the Epson looks great.

 

[pxlbarrel]

My father's Canon printer used to do exactly the same thing. Folks - it's the printed image, not the camera or original image.

Curiously enough, he switched to an Epson printer and things are much better. (Which I was glad about, as I am a fan of Epson printers and scanners.)

Anyway, I know exactly what the OP is talking about - dark dots on flesh tones, etc - things that don't seem to exist in the orgiinal photo. They look fine from a distance but if you get up close, you see terrible splotches.

I don't remember exactly what we did, but you may want to try fiddling with different printer settings. Make sure that the paper type is picked correctly. Try different quality settings. What software are you printing with? Maybe try using something else, like IrfanView which has many printing options.

If I think of it, I'll try to ask my father next time I speak to him if he remembers exactly how we fixed the problem, if it really did go away as soon as he switched to the Epson, or there was some other setting that was changed. I know the stuff he prints out now on the Epson looks great.

But isn't Tiger seeing them in the original on-screen image too? I know what you're talking about though...my HP printer did the same thing and that's why I stopped printing with it.

 

[Groucho]

But isn't Tiger seeing them in the original on-screen image too? I know what you're talking about though...my HP printer did the same thing and that's why I stopped printing with it.

I don't think there were on-screen problems, at least the way I read it:

"...on the screen they look plastic (I applied a high amount on purpose to test my printer), yet they still print out grainy."

Tiger926 - you're only having problems when you print the photos out, correct?

It's fairly normal to see some "noise" in the on-screen photos, especially from point-n-shoot cameras at anything less than bright sun, but the "dots" in the flesh tones sound like a printer issue.

I asked my father, and his recollection was that different paper and quality settings did make a difference, but the problem went away completely when switching from the Canon to the Epson. However, the Epson recently died and he bought a printer (Canon or HP? don't remember for sure) for under $50 at K-mart and has been getting some very nice prints out of that. Good grief! It's almost cheaper to just keep replacing the printer!

Try printing out on plain paper at different settings and see if the problem is different - it was worst for him on photo paper where the ink seems more likely to "blob" on the surface rather than be absorbed into the paper. Obviously plain paper isn't great for prints, but just for testing.

 

[manning]

I went looking for epson picturemate problems on other sites and found your thread in the panasonic forum. DPREVIEW.COM

What was the result of the printout on the other epson printer (your friend's)? If the result is the same it may not be a picturemate problem.

Can you take a picture of someone you can post here and the other other forum. This may help greatly in trying to figure out what is happening. Right now we are all flying blind. You may have to print the picture on the picturemate and use a flatbed scanner to post it. Do you have this capability? I don't know if this will show the problem.

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks for all of your help. I didn't get my friend to print a photo as the problem seemed to correct itself when I printed on Epson Premium Glossy paper. I was going to go out and buy more, but my hubby said absolutely not since I have $100.00 worth of Picturemate ink/paper sitting her. I can't understand why it wouldn't print properly on its own paper, but at this point, anything is possible!!

I can post a photo, but how would I go about doing that? Thanks so much, Tiger

 

[Groucho]

Try printing to your existing paper but change the paper settings from your printing program, see if that helps. What I suspect is that on some papers, the ink tends to bead up into "dots" rather than spread out, and I assume that the printer prints those differently depending on what paper it thinks you're using.

I could probably come up with one of my father's old printouts and scan it, if anyone's curious to see exactly what the problem printouts look like.

 

[Tiger926]

Groucho - Thanks, but if I could do that, I would have done it a long time ago - LOL! There doesn't seem to be anyway to change the paper settings in Picturemate as it's built in - if anyone knows of a way, could they please let me know?

I thank everyone for their help. I'm not sure how to post a photo, so that is why I haven't done so yet. At this point, I'm just going to have to live with this as we can't figure out what the deal is and Epson is not interested in helping whatsoever even though the printer is only 7 months old.

Thanks again, Tiger

 

[manning]

I have been looking at the Picturemate user guide on-line.

It does address grainy pictures. It says "Your photo is grainy.
The print head may need alignment; see Improving Print Quality for instructions.
You may need to increase the image resolution or print it in a smaller size; see your software documentation."

I would go to "improving print quality for instructions" if you haven't done so.

Look for solving problems. Then print quality problems. Then your photo is grainy.

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks, manning. I've done all of that, and then some, but thank you so much for taking the time to do that I am going to realign the print head today, but underalign it. More specifically, despite the fact that I've realigned it a bunch of time without any improvement, my hubby and I are wondering if perhaps the software is off, so I am going to fool around with aligning it and see what happens (it prints out a test pattern, and I have to choose which box has less amount of lines, so maybe something has gone wrong here).

In regards to the resolution, I still can't believe that this could be it since I shoot in 5mps or 8mps (I can change on my camera), but at this point, anything is possible!

I thank you all for your help and tips. My printer/camera odyssey continues, Tiger