Epcot to get major transformations

[bladiator]

Just thinking about this a little more. If you replace the 3 Caballeros with Coco, Figment with Inside Out, and Ellen's Energy Adventure with GoG, you end up with new attractions, but you also have the same empty spaces.

Why not keep the existing attractions, and just add more? Have more things to do at Epcot. It will also spread out the crowds a little more and make people spend more time at Epcot.

Right. And as has also been debated throughout this thread, can we just try making something that isn't IP specific? I mean, do they think it won't sell at all? Wasn't EPCOT entirely new fresh ideas when it opened with no previous tie-in? The Land doesn't need a mascot -- neither did the Living Seas (no hate against Nemo, but that doesn't make me head in there anymore than before. I head in there all time btw). I wish I could watch them build something that is just -- BOOP -- from the imagination again. Figment is adorable, and they didn't need a billion dollar animated movie about him to get that way. That's why I wish more people would appreciate Mission: Space. Sure, you can only ride that kind of ride so many times, but at least it wasn't "Buzz Lightyear's Space Mission" or something. Why am I still typing? I can't quit blargh blargh blaaarrrgggghhhhh.

I just wish there would be something with no tie-in to any product. Just a brand new idea. You can even sell BRAND NEW PLUSHIES OF EVERYTHING IN THE RIDE!

 

[jade1]

Right. And as has also been debated throughout this thread, can we just try making something that isn't IP specific? I mean, do they think it won't sell at all? Wasn't EPCOT entirely new fresh ideas when it opened with no previous tie-in? The Land doesn't need a mascot -- neither did the Living Seas (no hate against Nemo, but that doesn't make me head in there anymore than before. I head in there all time btw). I wish I could watch them build something that is just -- BOOP -- from the imagination again. Figment is adorable, and they didn't need a billion dollar animated movie about him to get that way. That's why I wish more people would appreciate Mission: Space. Sure, you can only ride that kind of ride so many times, but at least it wasn't "Buzz Lightyear's Space Mission" or something. Why am I still typing? I can't quit blargh blargh blaaarrrgggghhhhh.

I just wish there would be something with no tie-in to any product. Just a brand new idea. You can even sell BRAND NEW PLUSHIES OF EVERYTHING IN THE RIDE!

You do realize Disney creating a new IP (Walle/Frozen/Cars/GoTG/Rat) is a "brand new" idea correct?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You do realize Disney creating a new IP (Walle/Frozen/Cars/GoTG/Rat) is a "brand new" idea correct?

This is where we need to call in the translator...

Putting AA's with jingles from movies, a shop dump, and a meet and greet onto an EXISTING ride is not creating something new.

That's where the apprehension is rooted...at least 4 of these bold ideas are just that...actually 5 by my count. Some with even less thought invested.

 

[George4]

Because replicating the magic kingdom 4 times doesn't make sense in the long run...things come and go...

It might shock you to know that princess have NOT always been en vogue...nor will they always be. Same for disney cartoons...the whole point of the wdw complex was to offer things to insulate the business...and the more they pigeon hole everything into low attention span and frivolous retail prices...the worse the future will get in the long run.

I won't live forever (but sadly for all you...I got a ways to go )...but I want the place to be there for others past me. If you want "magic"...then that's it.

This is the crux of the problem for many American businesses these days. They are always looking to cash in immediately, but not necessarily at the long term benefit to their company. Take Apple for example, years ago they recognized that as a computer company they were likely finished, so they found an alternate way through the iphone, itunes and the app store. They were insulated for 5-10 years with a steady income stream while they figure out their next step from a technology company. At the same time, companies like HP, Gateway and Asus focused simply on making a cheap computer and eventually they couldn't keep up. They couldn't see past how they were making money at the moment to figure out how to make money in the future. Disney seems stuck part way in between, which also isn't very good. They are trying to cash in on the moment (see Frozen), while claiming they are updating their product for the future, except that they aren't, at least not consistently. The last few years may be showing a change, but they still seem reluctant to spend money to maintain an interest in their product going forward. Disney seems content to collect money from the top 1%, but are starting to ignore the rest of the populace. The problem with that thinking is that in the short term, you make a lot of money, but the 1% do it and move on to the next thing. They don't go over and over. And there sure aren't a lot of people moving into the top 1% that aren't already there. You are going to lose your client base. Someone else is going to figure out how to market to kids and then Disney will really have a run for their money to maintain a client base in the future.

Disney used to be the place that everyone wanted to go. Now, there are lots of people the view them simply as a money grubbing greed machine, and have sworn to never go back. That isn't good for future revenue.

 

[Phicinfan]

This is where we need to call in the translator...

Putting AA's with jingles from movies, a shop dump, and a meet and greet onto an EXISTING ride is not creating something new.

That's where the apprehension is rooted...at least 4 of these bold ideas are just that...actually 5 by my count. Some with even less thought invested.

Okay, lets clarify the 5.

UoE is getting all new building, ride system(roller coaster) and main building is getting gutted.....so no.
Rat in France is all new ride for Epcot - so no
UK ride - not enough known, so that can't be it either
New Pavilion in WS - Brazil - nope - per last report will only be pavilion.
M:S revamp - new screens - is this one?
Land - not known
Seas - not known
New Innovations -still not scoped out....

Basically I will give you Coco for Mexico, other than that you got nothing.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The little scene with faces cracks me up, but it's pretty hokey. No, I was thinking the last scene at the top. Kind of like the last scene in CoP. Both need some attention. Illuminations wouldn't be high on my list, but there is no doubt that show is aging. It also holds a special place for me, it's where I was as the clock struck 00:00 on 01/01/00. And yes, there is a ton of ancillary revenue. I was just putting what 3B really means in terms of ticket sales. We know the parks make money, but 2-3B is still an insane amount of money.

Or even before that scene - isn't the last scene before that the guy in the garage building the personal computer? I think they could use adding something with smart phones and what the next stage is (google glass or something)

 

[George4]

I think it cost them a billion dollars in 1970-80 dollars which is mind boggling to imagine in today's money.

I love the idea behind it. I'm too young to have visited during that time, but just the concept behind it is intriguing as heck and like you said is incredible they pulled it off. As is digging up a natural lagoon and canals in 1971, but that's another story

I did visit during that time, and as much as I loved it, it didn't seem to work for the general populace. I loved Horizons, but it didn't connect with most people. I loved the original Living Seas, but the dolphins didn't play nice with other fish (among many other small problems), so something had to change. Oh, and most teen kids didn't connect with the park at all. That hasn't changed much, but at least they go in now to do Soarin, Test Track and maybe Mission: Space. That's better than nothing. Young ones at least enjoy the animals in seas, and if they saw it, they enjoyed the original Imaginations (what a technological playground that was). But, it didn't really work as a theme park. It really was a world's fair, and you don't visit that over and over.

 

[ArwenMarie]

They will wait to see how Coco does before they re-do that ride

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Okay, lets clarify the 5.

UoE is getting all new building, ride system(roller coaster) and main building is getting gutted.....so no.
Rat in France is all new ride for Epcot - so no
UK ride - not enough known, so that can't be it either
New Pavilion in WS - Brazil - nope - per last report will only be pavilion.
M:S revamp - new screens - is this one?
Land - not known
Seas - not known
New Innovations -still not scoped out....

Basically I will give you Coco for Mexico, other than that you got nothing.

Seas: more nemo overlay
Mexico: coco overlay
China: Mulan film (overlay)
Imagination: inside out overlay
Mission space: that's a tweak but I won't include an overlay on that.


So 4...my bad.

And you might not want to believe all this nonsense...you're falling for the "new country" gag? Honestly that's like a dog peeing on an electric fence.

So the candidates are the bankrupt territory of Puerto Rico...the in crisis police state of Brazil...or the recently Euro bailed out Spain?

What don't we throw Greece and South Sudan in there as well?

 

[jade1]

This is where we need to call in the translator...

Putting AA's with jingles from movies, a shop dump, and a meet and greet onto an EXISTING ride is not creating something new.

That's where the apprehension is rooted...at least 4 of these bold ideas are just that...actually 5 by my count. Some with even less thought invested.

I get that. I just can see where Disney is coming from. There are many examples on here alone asking for an IP that was a "brand new" idea from Disney.

I visit enough that I don't need IP, but a lot of the Disney draw, is Disney.

Same with Star Wars. Certainly not a brand new idea, or in EPCOT-but guests want it.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I agree with this. Hey, Wall-E isn't the gold standard in the Disney IP, but they just gave up on this guy. Of course, you could sorta say the same about the Incredibles even though they have dance parties (seriously? what a waste). I put forward the idea in a Tomorrowland thread that they should have a dark ride where you jump in one of the white fat chairs and take a tour of the space cruiser. And then you can start churning out Wall-E dolls and make a killing because no one is buying them when they don't have any tie-in!

Besides, couldn't you use Wall-E to make a pavilion about ecology and pollution? It's IP AND Future World specific. COME ON IGER DO I HAVE TO DO ALL YOUR WORK FOR YOU?

I think the Incredibles Dance Party has ended (or will be ending)

Maybe they could replace the Lion King Movie with a Wall-E based movie at the Land pavilion. I think even small things like that would be good (not if that is all they do, just saying it doesn't have to only be a couple E/D-ticket attractions - can do some smaller things too)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They will wait to see how Coco does before they re-do that ride

Of course they will...so the presence on this list is jim hill type of guesswork/nonsense.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I got another one for you. The Good Dinosaur overlay at UOE. They already have it back there, and the little guy could be shown slowly being turned into fossil fuels over millions of years.

....why are you looking at me like that?

they already built a dino land based on a dino movie (Dinoland in AK is based on Dinosaur) - and not sure if that really helped merchandise or DVD sales

 

[ArwenMarie]

Wasn't Mission Space built to compete with the Kennedy Space Center?
The Seas was built to compete with SeaWorld
Animal Kingdom was built to keep people from going to BG in Tampa

How are all of those places doing now?

I bet the current Disney would love to get out of the science and live-animal exhibit business in particular. That's something you don't see them building as they expand globally

 

[jade1]

Wasn't Mission Space built to compete with the Kennedy Space Center?
The Seas was built to compete with SeaWorld
Animal Kingdom was built to keep people from going to BG in Tampa

How are all of those places doing now?

I bet the current Disney would love to get out of the science and live-animal exhibit business in particular. That's something you don't see them building as they expand globally

Excellent points.

 

[umichigan10]

I did visit during that time, and as much as I loved it, it didn't seem to work for the general populace. I loved Horizons, but it didn't connect with most people. I loved the original Living Seas, but the dolphins didn't play nice with other fish (among many other small problems), so something had to change. Oh, and most teen kids didn't connect with the park at all. That hasn't changed much, but at least they go in now to do Soarin, Test Track and maybe Mission: Space. That's better than nothing. Young ones at least enjoy the animals in seas, and if they saw it, they enjoyed the original Imaginations (what a technological playground that was). But, it didn't really work as a theme park. It really was a world's fair, and you don't visit that over and over.

I guess it depends on the kind of person you are. Disney has always had a problem connecting with teens in the thrill ride department, but it doesn't mean all teens are into/want thrill rides. Some people are into deeper more interesting rides (not that thrill rides aren't interesting but you get the point).

I believe you though. I've heard that Epcot had serious identity issues from day one, but I think the question we need to ask ourselves, is the place better off now than it was then

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I guess it depends on the kind of person you are. Disney has always had a problem connecting with teens in the thrill ride department, but it doesn't mean all teens are into/want thrill rides. Some people are into deeper more interesting rides (not that thrill rides aren't interesting but you get the point).

I believe you though. I've heard that Epcot had serious identity issues from day one, but I think the question we need to ask ourselves, is the place better off now than it was then

heck, originally they couldn't decide between the two ideas so they just pushed the two models together for the presentation and had the park be both Future World and World Showcase

I love EPCOT - it's still my favorite park ... but it is basically a suped up World's Fair merged with a suped up It's a Small World ... it's not going to be for everyone

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Or even before that scene - isn't the last scene before that the guy in the garage building the personal computer? I think they could use adding something with smart phones and what the next stage is (google glass or something)

That's scene was added about 5 years ago because it's a shrine to the egomaniacal largest shareholder of Disney stock at the time...

 

[George4]

I admitted that I never saw Epcot in its glory days. Did it have a "quiet elegance"? I believe you but I've never seen that version

What I see now?...overhaul is good.

Ok here's a question...what part of the rumored overhaul is bad?

Everything that has it turning into a ride park with no respect for what made it unique when it opened, and made it unique for a long time. You want to overhaul Universe of Energy? Please do it. But not by converting it into a GoG roller coaster.Put that ride in DHS. Use UoE for something at least relates to EPCOT's original purpose, or takes it in a new direction. Do SDMT type ride, with the slow sections being about different types of fuel and how they work, or any one of a dozen other possibilities.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Everything that has it turning into a ride park with no respect for what made it unique when it opened, and made it unique for a long time. You want to overhaul Universe of Energy? Please do it. But not by converting it into a GoG roller coaster.Put that ride in DHS. Use UoE for something at least relates to EPCOT's original purpose, or takes it in a new direction. Do SDMT type ride, with the slow sections being about different types of fuel and how they work, or any one of a dozen other possibilities.

Yes!...please...

And they can go cheap by using spare mine train parts too!

Paint "Exxon" on the side of the barrels that never move...

Winner, winner, pollo dinner!