Emotion and Politics: “Bush-Hating” (bit long)

[rcyannacci]

Understanding that most elections tend to get brutal, it seems that the stakes have been raised for this year’s presidential race. Both in personal conversations and watching the political threads here, both sides seem to be more adamant about their positions, aggravated at the rhetoric of the opposition, and, in general, feeling uncertain about what they will do if the opposition wins.

A perfect case in point is the “Anyone but Bush” movement, something that only could have gained momentum from a wide-spread hatred for the current administration. From my previous posts, it would be easy to note my liberal leanings and support of the Democratic party. And in most elections, I may really disagree with the opposition, but I don’t think I’ve ever felt as strong a distaste/dislike for politicians as I feel for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, etc. This got me thinking about the impulse behind these feelings. Is it really hate, or just frustration? If it is hate, what does that mean? I’ve seen many on this board write off certain political positions as mere “Bush-hating,” implying that any opinion coming from such an emotional position is automatically devalued. And, I’ve seen debates about “fact” verses “emotion.” But is it possible to fully separate the two? Aren’t elections and politics inherently emotional topics that touch our everyday lives?

There are lots of reasons why certain people “hate” Bush (arrogance, flawed diplomatic skills, pandering to the rich, etc.) but I think that, deep down, my own “hatred” (if that’s what it really is) stems from my position as an educator and what I perceive to be Bush’s complete lack of intellectual curiosity. As I was listening to him give the commencement address at LSU, I was struck by his comments about his own education at Yale and his status as a C student. He made a joke about spending more time on a bar stool than in class. There is certainly nothing wrong with being a C student, especially if that person is working hard. But there is something distasteful about squandering opportunity. How many hundreds of thousands of bright students dream about the opportunity of studying at an ivy-league institution? Or even dream of having the money to attend a State school like LSU? How many scholarship students sat in the audience, having worked for 4 years to be a successful student only to have the President of the United States mock their efforts? As if intelligence or comprehensive education is a laughable goal? I’m sure many of his advisors were in the tops of their classes, but is that good enough? Nobody voted for them. Personally, I want elected officials who have the ability to show up, whether it be to class or active military duty. Or ones that wouldn’t sit for crucial minutes on 9/11 reading a book about goats, waiting for someone to tell him what to do. (I’ve never heard any response from the right adequately explaining this inexcusable lack of immediate action.)

These are my beliefs. Certainly, they are emotional, feelings evoked by words Bush uttered, actions he did and did not take. But I still don’t know if it’s hatred, or if it is that these feeling should be automatically devalued. Is anyone else struggling with this? For those of you who feel a type of political “hatred,” for either Bush or Kerry, what does it stem from? Is it a rationalized hatred? Can hatred be rationalized?

 

[faithinkarma]

I applaud the honesty of your post. I guess the tilt of my emotional reaction goes back to what Bush did to beat McCain. I have never been able to see past that. The ruthlessness, the win at any cost, the firm adherence to the idea that the end justifies the means. That appalls me, frightens me, and goes against every rule by which I have lived my life. And in the past four years Bush has done absolutely nothing to improve my image of him. He has squandered virtually everything: money, natural resources, and the good will and respect of the world. While I shudder to think just how much more harm he could cause in another four years, I do not envy anyone the task of trying to clean up the mess that has been made.

 

[caitycaity]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
I applaud the honesty of your post. I guess the tilt of my emotional reaction goes back to what Bush did to beat McCain. I have never been able to see past that. The ruthlessness, the win at any cost, the firm adherence to the idea that the end justifies the means. That appalls me, frightens me, and goes against every rule by which I have lived my life. And in the past four years Bush has done absolutely nothing to improve my image of him. He has squandered virtually everything: money, natural resources, and the good will and respect of the world. While I shudder to think just how much more harm he could cause in another four years, I do not envy anyone the task of trying to clean up the mess that has been made.

i don't hate bush, but he sure scares the bejeesus out of me.

 

[jrydberg]

No politician is worth my hatred. It's as simple as that, for me.

Mind you, I can't think of anyone that I'd say I do hate. I guess I just feel that life is too short to waste it on hatred of others. That may sound cheesy, but I think it accurately describes how I feel.

 

[Lisa96]

I think this is a very well thought out and well written post, and I have to agree with you on much of what you say. I hadn't heard the commencement address story, but it is an example of why I do feel hatred for Bush. I dislike his policies, I disagree with many of the things he says, but mainly I hate the arrogance and snide attitude I feel he projects. That he should feel so entitled to throw away not only his educational opportunities, but that his every opportunity to give back to his country (from his military service to his political appointments he's taken financial advantages for himself) is squandered makes me furious. And I truly hate being told that I am "unpatriotic" when I want answers to questions that, in a democratic society, I have the right to ask and the right to have clear answers to - especially when those who are screaming "unpatriotic" are a group of men (Bush, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Cheney) who are distinguished by the extreme number of deferrments they were given during the Vietnam War, by virtue of their money and social connections.

I have a hard time with this being such an emotional election because it so difficult to get others to look at the issues. All I seem to hear is "Well, Bush is more trustworthy than Clinton!" Well, for one thing I don't agree (I think lying about your sex life and lying about WMD's are VERY different) and for another, why are we still talking about Clinton? When you try to discuss policies, or how our environment is being impacted because of selling off federal land to big contributors or the EPA lawsuits that have been dismissed, or how all our news agencies are now owned by 6 conglomerates monopolizing the media - all I get is "you're wrong, he's a good man!" and they get angry. Yes, I do hate that man, but I'm willing to discuss his track record and the outlook for the future based on that and not my emotions about Bush personally. Don't impugn my love of my country because I don't agree with the President - we wouldn't be here in America today if courageous people hadn't spoken up against the King. Those patriots often disagreed on many emotional points, but they were willing to listen to each other and work together to iron out as many differences as possible to come up with a working government. I just hope and pray that the we Americans can begin to live their example, and involve ourselves in the political process rather than just argue and become angry with each other. I think there are more similarities than differences between all of us - no matter what political party you align with.
OK, end of my rant

 

[year2late]

"Hate" ---- I don't know, but it sure is not love or trust.

Can I stilll snicker at the "uniter not divider" comments? Have we been more politically divided since the Civil War?

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by jrydberg
No politician is worth my hatred. It's as simple as that, for me.

Mind you, I can't think of anyone that I'd say I do hate. I guess I just feel that life is too short to waste it on hatred of others. That may sound cheesy, but I think it accurately describes how I feel.

ITA

 

[Cebhfhionn]

Wow! I couldn't have said it better myself.

My emotional bias has been around since the last election. I didn't pay much attention to politics when the first Bush was in office but I did work for an employment agency during the recession then and I remember it being horrible. I wasn't even registered to vote at the time.

Well, the 2000 election came up and I made sure that I registered as I didn't feel that I could trust someone like George W. Bush and wanted to cast my vote for Gore. The only thing that I could really put my finger on was that I got a "bad feeling" about him. I don't like his eyes, they're are not warm, trust-envoking eyes.

Well, 9/11 came along and being right outside NYC, I watched at the WTC crumbled and must admit that I was impressed by the speeches that he gave and the way that he expressed sorrow. I do realize that others write the speeches and I hope that person was given a raise. I thought then, "Well, maybe I was wrong, he isn't so horrible." HA! Was I ever wrong! Here we are, a broken country trying to get back to where we were before 9/11(like that could ever happen) and the entire world(for the most part) is feeling sorry for us, trying to help. We go looking for Bin Laden, GOOD for us! The Taliban needs to be taken out and we need to find those responsible for this horrific thing that they've done to us.

"What? We can't find Bin Laden? Ok, well lets use the sympathy we have from others to go after Iraq because they have Weapons of Mass Destruction."

Well, the rest is history, the fact that he totally disregarded the U.N. Council and attacked Iraq has made us appear to be bullies. How many more have we lost at his hand?

Sorry, didn't mean for this to be such a long post, I guess I'm a little more passionate about this than I originally thought.

 

[year2late]

The one person I consistently trust in Bush's administration - Colin Powell - seems to be almost pushed to the background.

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by jrydberg
No politician is worth my hatred. It's as simple as that, for me.

Mind you, I can't think of anyone that I'd say I do hate. I guess I just feel that life is too short to waste it on hatred of others. That may sound cheesy, but I think it accurately describes how I feel.

I think before this election, I felt the same way, jryberg. But, try as I might to not dwell on what is happening politically in the U.S., I continue to get emotionally rattled by what's going on with this administration. I agree with what faithinkarma said: it truly frightens me. And, I'm trying to figure out how to best serve these emotions.

Here's what really scares me. I see so much hatred coming from ultra-conservatives over issues such as gay marriage (there are many others), and it seems as though many on the left are starting to combat hatred with hatred as the only political strategy that's left to them. This atmosphere is creating a huge division among the populations of this country, or even within the smaller community of this board. What will happen with all of this hate when the election is over?

 

[vacationman]

If dislike (or even hatred) of the current President gets folks to:

1. Step up and actually take some action - such as campaigning for Kerry or Nader (or even just voting); or

2. Research both sides of the issues rather than just accepting the party line (or sounding like a Michael Moore movie;

then maybe this President has done something great for America.

If this election were about electing the smartest person, we could roll out a SAT test and be done with it. Even a school teacher may agree that grades don't tell us who will be successful or who will be a good leader.

I personally have no issue if the President wants use self-deprecating humor to give hope to the non-A average folks (the majority of students). He could have just told them to marry rich.

 

[Cebhfhionn]

Yep, I agree with you there. Colin Powell, IMHO is truly a good person, definitely sincere & trustworthy.

 

[currycook]

quote "He made a joke about spending more time on a bar stool than in class."

You said - he made a JOKE.

I dont understand, you make a claim to hate someone on a 'joke" that they made? With all due respect I dont understand your thinking at all. To me it only shows the polorazation that those who complain about Bush hating talk about. Your argument to me only is a defense of the people who say they just hate the guy regardless of what he says or does.

My problem with almost all the debate here on these Dis boards is that both Kerry and Bush supporters are so polorized why even try to debate.

As someone that has not yet decided who to vote for my view is you dont like Bush so you make a claim to hate him becuase he made a joke about his college education. My thinking is if Kerry does something like that it is ok with you. But then a Bush supporter will jump all over that.

By the way, I am a registered Democrat from a very Democratic family. I dont want to debate this anymore and dont mean to offend. I just dont understand your thinking.

I will be so glad when this election is over regardless of who wins.

 

[faithinkarma]

currycook

respectfully, if that is all you took out of that eloquent post, you should reread it. You are doing precisely what you are accusing the poster of doing: taking one small insignificant part and basing your judgement of the whole on that part.

 

[inaminute]

All campaigns are designed to work on our emotions. In this case, hatred and fear of the current president is being peddled as an "honorable" thing if your'e good Democrat. At least that's the way it appears to me.

Personally, I have no reason to hate the president. I might have reason to dislike his policies if I disagree with them. But to actually hate the man strikes me as a useless waste of emotion. I don't know him. He's done nothing to hurt me or my family. Personal hatred is not going to affect him one way or the other. So, why bother wasting energy in hating him?

Bashing the president, verbally attacking those who do support the president, etc. do nothing to change anyone's mind. The only way to make a difference is to take action. If you really disagree with the current administration--then simply vote appropriately in November. Save your hatred for those who want to purposely harm to you and/or your family.

 

[jrydberg]

Originally posted by rcyannacci
I think before this election, I felt the same way, jryberg. But, try as I might to not dwell on what is happening politically in the U.S., I continue to get emotionally rattled by what's going on with this administration. I agree with what faithinkarma said: it truly frightens me. And, I'm trying to figure out how to best serve these emotions.

Here's what really scares me. I see so much hatred coming from ultra-conservatives over issues such as gay marriage (there are many others), and it seems as though many on the left are starting to combat hatred with hatred as the only political strategy that's left to them. This atmosphere is creating a huge division among the populations of this country, or even within the smaller community of this board. What will happen with all of this hate when the election is over?

Well, I guess I see things a bit differently. Honestly, though I'm no supporter of John Kerry, I have a lot more in common with the vast majority of Kerry supporters than I have differences with them.

Huge divisions have always been a part of this country's political scene. In fact, the whole system was designed to keep people divided -- going on the premise that at least a divided public can't do a whole lot of harm. Our government was essentially designed to keep people fighting among themselves so they'd be too busy with that to do any real harm to the country.

One can debate how successful that approach has been, but it has been the foundation of our system for over 225 years. Obviously things broke down a bit leading up to The Civil War. But aside from that, it seems to have done pretty well through the years.

 

[septbride2002]

, I was struck by his comments about his own education at Yale and his status as a C student. He made a joke about spending more time on a bar stool than in class. There is certainly nothing wrong with being a C student, especially if that person is working hard. But there is something distasteful about squandering opportunity. How many hundreds of thousands of bright students dream about the opportunity of studying at an ivy-league institution? Or even dream of having the money to attend a State school like LSU? How many scholarship students sat in the audience, having worked for 4 years to be a successful student only to have the President of the United States mock their efforts? As if intelligence or comprehensive education is a laughable goal? I’m sure many of his advisors were in the tops of their classes, but is that good enough? Nobody voted for them. Personally, I want elected officials who have the ability to show up, whether it be to class or active military duty

Currycook,
Please re-read the statements above.

Well, 9/11 came along and being right outside NYC, I watched at the WTC crumbled and must admit that I was impressed by the speeches that he gave and the way that he expressed sorrow. I do realize that others write the speeches and I hope that person was given a raise. I thought then, "Well, maybe I was wrong, he isn't so horrible." HA! Was I ever wrong! Here we are, a broken country trying to get back to where we were before 9/11(like that could ever happen) and the entire world(for the most part) is feeling sorry for us, trying to help. We go looking for Bin Laden, GOOD for us! The Taliban needs to be taken out and we need to find those responsible for this horrific thing that they've done to us.

You just described me! I actually (hold your breath) voted for Bush in the 2000 election. I thought Gore was an idiot (sorry!) and thought that Bush was the better man for the job. He had my support 100% right after 9/11 - it was when we couldn't find Bin Laden that things went south for me. Then it just seemed like lies and more lies. The economy never recovered - and still isn't recovering (in my opinion). He doesn't seem to have a plan to get us back on track.

Things that matter to me no longer seem to matter to him and that is why I will not be voting for him in November.

~Amanda

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by currycook
quote "He made a joke about spending more time on a bar stool than in class."

You said - he made a JOKE.

I dont understand, you make a claim to hate someone on a 'joke" that they made? With all due respect I dont understand your thinking at all. To me it only shows the polorazation that those who complain about Bush hating talk about. Your argument to me only is a defense of the people who say they just hate the guy regardless of what he says or does.

I appreciate your comments.

I think that just because something is stated as a joke is not a reason to discount it. Indeed, a lot of humor is based on an us/them agressiveness- funny if you agree with the position, not funny if you are the side being attacked. This "joke" did more than just make people laugh- it was intended to remind his audience that he is “one of the people,” not any better or smarter than anyone. In this scenario, however, that means that “smart” people become the fall guys for the joke, the outsiders. When did intelligence become a less than worthy goal in this country? When did a college education become more about networking and less about…well, education?

I want someone who respects intelligence to be the president of this country. Do they have to be an A student? No, and I don’t think that we should be checking SAT scores either (Lord knows I’d never be president if that were the case). But shouldn’t the president of our country have invested in his educational experience enough to have at least gone to class? To have challenged themselves to engage in levels of complex thinking? To have the opportunity to hear opposing viewpoints in order to confirm or change your own beliefs?

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by jrydberg
Well, I guess I see things a bit differently. Honestly, though I'm no supporter of John Kerry, I have a lot more in common with the vast majority of Kerry supporters than I have differences with them.

Huge divisions have always been a part of this country's political scene. In fact, the whole system was designed to keep people divided -- going on the premise that at least a divided public can't do a whole lot of harm. Our government was essentially designed to keep people fighting among themselves so they'd be too busy with that to do any real harm to the country.

One can debate how successful that approach has been, but it has been the foundation of our system for over 225 years. Obviously things broke down a bit leading up to The Civil War. But aside from that, it seems to have done pretty well through the years.

Excellent points. We all probably tend to get wrapped up in our own political moment and forget the rancor of past rivalries- they all seem too picturesque in thier powdered wigs and all

I wonder how or if the situation has changed in light of globalization, however, and the increasing interdependence of world nations in terms of the economy, trade, etc. It really feels as though we are living in a moment in which the whole world is watching our next action, and I feel increasingly frightened about what could happen if we continue to fight amongst ourselves and ignore our global responsibilities.

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by rcyannacci
I think that just because something is stated as a joke is not a reason to discount it. Indeed, a lot of humor is based on an us/them agressiveness- funny if you agree with the position, not funny if you are the side being attacked. This "joke" did more than just make people laugh- it was intended to remind his audience that he is “one of the people,” not any better or smarter than anyone. In this scenario, however, that means that “smart” people become the fall guys for the joke, the outsiders. When did intelligence become a less than worthy goal in this country? When did a college education become more about networking and less about…well, education?

I want someone who respects intelligence to be the president of this country. Do they have to be an A student? No, and I don’t think that we should be checking SAT scores either (Lord knows I’d never be president if that were the case). But shouldn’t the president of our country have invested in his educational experience enough to have at least gone to class? To have challenged themselves to engage in levels of complex thinking? To have the opportunity to hear opposing viewpoints in order to confirm or change your own beliefs?

Just had to chime in to say that you are so very eloquent. I feel exactly the same way. It's like we're back on the playground again, and everyone's hiding the results of their exams for fear someone will find out they're *gasp* smart and then no one will like them.

When did intelligence become a less than worthy goal in this country? Well, I'm 31 and I don't ever remember it being considered a worthy goal. Apparently, if you're smart, you're stuck up, snobby, and think you're better than everyone else. Bush wants to distance himself from intelligence.

Doin' a damn fine job so far.