Elementary School Security

[torinsmom]

Nope - no parent volunteers, no parents coming for lunch (kids can go home - the last thing they need is more people at lunch!), and I don't know what gardening volunteers do, but our town keeps up the property, and there is a gardening club for the kids. If a child needs extra help, there are plenty of paid staff to help. Our taxes are high, and our government spends freely.

I guess it depends on the school then. We have a very active parent community. We even have a once a month lunch where parents come in and watch the kids and bring in food for the teachers to eat together.
The town keeps up the property, but we have classroom gardens that the PTA's gardening committee helps the kids with. I think it's a great way to teach the kids skills for growing and maintaining their own gardens.

We do have plenty of staff, even assistants up to 5th grade(very unusual for this area), but there are always kids who can use some extra help and the Duke students get community service hours and experience with teaching others. For some of our kids, it is as much about having an adult one on one mentor as it is about getting extra academic help. This evening, we are having an international festival and parents have been in and out all day setting up.

I love having parents be a part of our school community, but maybe our school is in the minority?

 

[disneychrista]

But all this is so odd for this California girl, since all of my schools through 12th were outdoor corridor, no fences, no gates ...

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[GaSleepingBeautyFan]

Well yes I think everyone should follow the rules, but it doesn't surprise me that some don't. We have basically the same policy but we also have a woman sitting outside the office that will stop you if you try to by-pass her without signing in either at her desk or inside the office.

Same at ours. The parents call ours the watchdog. No one gets by her.

 

[MolonLabe]

No guns sign allow another charge to get put on someone who does something with a gun. IF no one is supposed to have one, the person that does have one is a bad guy, no question about it.

Ok. Logic then says that cops are bad guys, since a person with a gun is automatically a bad guy.

I also don't see how 15 years to life for kidnapping or murder is going to be deterred by a couple of extra years for having a gun, lol.

But all this is so odd for this California girl, since all of my schools through 12th were outdoor corridor, no fences, no gates except in HS at the driveways once the campus closed...

What is strange is that the thread starter is from Ponte Vedre, I just realized that... I went to high school VERY close to her. All open courtyards and corridors, no fences or real gates to speak of.

She's going to be in for a world of shock when she sees the High School there, lol.

 

[HLAuburn]

I would say illogical as opposed to unreasonable.

Would someone bent on doing harm actually stop and get a visitor ID in the first place? I hate to laugh, but it's quite silly when you think about it. It's like posting a "no guns" sign and then wondering why a criminal would be worried about violating the no gun sign as opposed to violating the no murder law.

You just proved my point - if the rule was enforced, then anyone who bypasses the office could be easily identified and should be treated as a "threat" to the security of the school. Just like if I walked past TSA at the airport - when everyone follows the rule, anyone NOT following the rule stands out and is tackled. Since there are so many rule-breakers, it makes it impossible to figure out who just didn't check in and who's a real threat.

I guess it depends on the school then. We have a very active parent community. We even have a once a month lunch where parents come in and watch the kids and bring in food for the teachers to eat together.
The town keeps up the property, but we have classroom gardens that the PTA's gardening committee helps the kids with. I think it's a great way to teach the kids skills for growing and maintaining their own gardens.

We do have plenty of staff, even assistants up to 5th grade(very unusual for this area), but there are always kids who can use some extra help and the Duke students get community service hours and experience with teaching others. For some of our kids, it is as much about having an adult one on one mentor as it is about getting extra academic help. This evening, we are having an international festival and parents have been in and out all day setting up.

I love having parents be a part of our school community, but maybe our school is in the minority?

We also have a lot of parent involvement. Honestly, I think the school depends on it. I'm at DD's school several times a week, and there are always parents there for one reason or another. The county is very particular about who has access to the school, but if the school is only half-enforcing the rule, what's the point?

 

[torinsmom]

You just proved my point - if the rule was enforced, then anyone who bypasses the office could be easily identified and should be treated as a "threat" to the security of the school. Just like if I walked past TSA at the airport - when everyone follows the rule, anyone NOT following the rule stands out and is tackled. Since there are so many rule-breakers, it makes it impossible to figure out who just didn't check in and who's a real threat.




We also have a lot of parent involvement. Honestly, I think the school depends on it. I'm at DD's school several times a week, and there are always parents there for one reason or another. The county is very particular about who has access to the school, but if the school is only half-enforcing the rule, what's the point?

We do pretty well at enforcing and anyone who wants to be a volunteer needs to be approved by the district with a background check, etc. Until we had the doors locked and the computer based check in system, I didn't feel very secure when I was at work, but now I feel much more so.

 

[snowy76]

All our school buildings are locked from the outside except the front door - and many schools lock that, too. We're a large high school, so we have a second set of double doors inside that remain locked. Only the attendance office can buzz kids in if they're late to school - anyone else goes through the main office where they get a visitor's sticker w/photo and date.

The only downside to this system is that at arrival time, the doors are unlocked for 45 minutes. We have security but it's a big building. Two years ago we had an expelled student return with a knife to attack another kid right outside my room. Some of our football team got to him and tackled him and yelled for security. Kids talk and they knew this kid was there. No one thought he was out of place because he HAD been a student at one time.

Just last week I saw a man in his early 20s walking around with a couple of students before classes. He was dressed casually and scruffy enough that everyone thought he was also a student - to me he just looked too OLD. My co-worker and I stopped him. Well, actually, he flat out told us he wasn't a student and kept walking. Our security escorted him out.

I've also had students with custodial issues who have OoPs against a parent.

This is a suburban school but we see all walks of life around here!

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

I have a 1st grader who attends a public elementary school. My 3 year old has speech therapy at the same school twice a week in the afternoons. Her speech teacher picks her up in the front lobby and I wait in the lobby for the 30 minutes she's in speech.

The rule for everyone entering the building is that you check in at the front office, show ID, and get a visitor sticker. The office is right as you walk in the front doors, but the office doors are usually closed. During the time I sit there, I've noticed a lot of adults (parents) who bypass the office and just walk right into the school.

Since I'm there at the end of the day, I think most (if not all) of them are parents who wait at the end of the main classroom hall (NOT the lobby) to "intercept" their kids and walk them out to the car (also to avoid the long carpool line). And maybe they do this every day and no one's called them on it, but all it would take was one wrong person getting in and it's a news story.

Another mom who was there for speech but doesn't have older children made a comment about all the people walking right in, so I paid closer attention today and it really does seem out of control. I really don't want to be "that parent", but when it comes to safety of elementary school kids, I don't think it's too much to expect that everyone should follow the rules.

The school is in a nice, upscale beach area (we don't live there ) and I think the parents have a false sense of security that nothing could ever happen at their school. But the school is in a mostly commercial area off a very busy highway, so everything's going to be fine until it isn't.

Am I being unreasonable?

YOU ARE NOT BEING UNREASONABLE. As a teacher I have had to stop many non custodial parents from taking their kids. I hate that parents are allowed to wait in the lobby and when I come in the morning the door is open and no one is at the desk. Any psycho could hide in a bathroom and hurt the kids. I never want to think that if I let a child to to the bathroom alone that s/he might be in danger. A school should have the same security as Fort Knox.

 

[Coconut36]

Ok. Logic then says that cops are bad guys, since a person with a gun is automatically a bad guy.

I also don't see how 15 years to life for kidnapping or murder is going to be deterred by a couple of extra years for having a gun, lol.



What is strange is that the thread starter is from Ponte Vedre, I just realized that... I went to high school VERY close to her. All open courtyards and corridors, no fences or real gates to speak of.

She's going to be in for a world of shock when she sees the High School there, lol.

Do you still live near the area and/or still see the school? My schools were more open when I was a kid..my old elementary school was gated but not in the way of schools now..waist high chain link in the front and some other gates but security was not treated the same way it is now. That said ALL of the schools I attended that were not gated have been remodeled and are now set up so that you can not just walk onto campus. Many schools/districts went back and updated the security..even my 75+ year old elementary school. It's still outdoor opening but the security to get in has been changed.

Many people in schools can tell stories of non custodial parents or family attempting to abduct the kid from school. Great Aunt Susie who is not on the authorized list trying to walk out with the kid or Dad/Mom who is legally not allowed around the kid without supervision is attempting to leave with them. From a school liability perspective they need to have the schools secured, people logged in and verified..etc because if that kid turns up missing on school time they are liable (or if they allow the kid to be taken by someone they parents have not authorized they are liable).

Also as other posters have said..posted things about guns, requirements for stickers, sign ins..etc give them legal rights and also make it so that if you breeze on in and don't sign in you are ID'd as a threat..they might put the school on lock down even if they don't know if you are a threat and they can bring in the police. So while it might not stop someone intent on harm it triggers security on the part of the school ASAP if they see someone bypass it.

I ask if you have seen the school recently simply because what you knew then and what the reality is now are not always the same.

 

[aprilgail2]

Do you not have classroom volunteers, gardening volunteers, parents coming for lunch, etc? There are always parents in our building, and we also have volunteers from the local universities that come in to tutor kids who need either a badge or a sticker. We also have parent tours come through and all those need a sticker. We have been told that if someone does not have a sticker we are to send them back for one. If we don't recognize the person with no sticker, we are to call the office, and they handle it. Sometimes a parent will walk their child down when they are tardy and NOT get a sticker, but in that case, it is kind of pointless to sen them back when they are leaving.

Coming for lunch LOL? Its a school not a diner! It would be insane to have parents hanging about at lunch- the kids get their food, gulp it down in 14 minutes and are outside for rec-parents would totally screw up all time frames...plus its silent lunch so not much point going and just staring at your kids eating LOL. I feel that school is my childs place and I don't need to be hanging around her during the school day anyway.
We do not allow parent volunteers into the classrooms here other than the classparent and that is only for 3 parties a year. I am very happy with this system, they don't need some gossippy mom telling all about how little Johnny got in trouble in class today.
The union would have an issue with parents doing gardening work at the school as that is someones job they are paid to do.
At our school OP would not be waiting in the lobby for her child- if you don't have business in the office you wait outside the school. During pickup the parents of walkers wait all the way down the end of the sidewalk by the street, they are not allowed up by the doors of the school. The kids are dismissed and walk down the sidewalk to their parents.
To go in the school you have to be buzzed into the office and state your business- you just can't walk into the school.

 

[Coconut36]

Coming for lunch LOL? Its a school not a diner! It would be insane to have parents hanging about at lunch- the kids get their food, gulp it down in 14 minutes and are outside for rec-parents would totally screw up all time frames...plus its silent lunch so not much point going and just staring at your kids eating LOL. I feel that school is my childs place and I don't need to be hanging around her during the school day anyway.
We do not allow parent volunteers into the classrooms here other than the classparent and that is only for 3 parties a year. I am very happy with this system, they don't need some gossippy mom telling all about how little Johnny got in trouble in class today.
The union would have an issue with parents doing gardening work at the school as that is someones job they are paid to do.
At our school OP would not be waiting in the lobby for her child- if you don't have business in the office you wait outside the school. During pickup the parents of walkers wait all the way down the end of the sidewalk by the street, they are not allowed up by the doors of the school. The kids are dismissed and walk down the sidewalk to their parents.
To go in the school you have to be buzzed into the office and state your business- you just can't walk into the school.

Huh...there are lots and lots of parents that eat lunch with their kids here. The school even has a week dedicated to parents coming to eat with their kids on campus. They don't alter the lunch hour timeframes and they parents do not remotely "screw up" the schedule. It's hardly a big deal.

We have volunteers..they are required to attend training regarding being a volunteer and one of the big areas of discussion is student privacy. Will it eliminate gossip? Of course not but you do sign an agreement with the school regarding confidentiality (and parents are not allowed to do certain tasks that could compromise privacy..they aren't writing discipline notices, not sending kids to the office, they cant' grade papers or enter grades either).

 

[torinsmom]

Coming for lunch LOL? Its a school not a diner! It would be insane to have parents hanging about at lunch- the kids get their food, gulp it down in 14 minutes and are outside for rec-parents would totally screw up all time frames...plus its silent lunch so not much point going and just staring at your kids eating LOL. I feel that school is my childs place and I don't need to be hanging around her during the school day anyway.
We do not allow parent volunteers into the classrooms here other than the classparent and that is only for 3 parties a year. I am very happy with this system, they don't need some gossippy mom telling all about how little Johnny got in trouble in class today.
The union would have an issue with parents doing gardening work at the school as that is someones job they are paid to do.
At our school OP would not be waiting in the lobby for her child- if you don't have business in the office you wait outside the school. During pickup the parents of walkers wait all the way down the end of the sidewalk by the street, they are not allowed up by the doors of the school. The kids are dismissed and walk down the sidewalk to their parents.
To go in the school you have to be buzzed into the office and state your business- you just can't walk into the school.

Our school is PK-5th grade and teaching PreK/K, we do have at least one parent come to lunch once each week. The parent sits with their kid and lunch is on the same schedule. I don't know how a parent coming would mess up the time. Our kids have 30 minutes for lunch--plenty of time to socialize AND eat. We don't have silent lunches.

And actually, I had more of a problem with gossip when parents had to wait outside the school for pickup at my previous school. It was very high school-ish and I hated it. At my current school, it is more like extended family.

So, a classroom garden is not the classroom's job? I am totally lost on that, but then again, we don't have teachers' unions. Why have a classroom garden if someone who isn't invested in your class is going to take care of it? This is not landscaping; it is child created and child supported gardening. Garden parents teach the kids how to weed and which plants need what. We even have a parent who plans and oversees tree planting for the city who comes in each year to plant a tree with the kids. He does a lot of education while they're filling in the hole and watering the tree.

I'm glad you like the way your school runs, but that doesn't mean you have to criticize something that works at another school. I personally, wouldn't be happy having a child in an elementary school where I never saw anyone except the office staff. Parents are part of the team that makes our students successful.

 

[Coconut36]

Our school is PK-5th grade and teaching PreK/K, we do have at least one parent come to lunch once each week. The parent sits with their kid and lunch is on the same schedule. I don't know how a parent coming would mess up the time. Our kids have 30 minutes for lunch--plenty of time to socialize AND eat. We don't have silent lunches.

And actually, I had more of a problem with gossip when parents had to wait outside the school for pickup at my previous school. It was very high school-ish and I hated it. At my current school, it is more like extended family.

So, a classroom garden is not the classroom's job? I am totally lost on that, but then again, we don't have teachers' unions. Why have a classroom garden if someone who isn't invested in your class is going to take care of it? This is not landscaping; it is child created and child supported gardening. Garden parents teach the kids how to weed and which plants need what. We even have a parent who plans and oversees tree planting for the city who comes in each year to plant a tree with the kids. He does a lot of education while they're filling in the hole and watering the tree.

I'm glad you like the way your school runs, but that doesn't mean you have to criticize something that works at another school. I personally, wouldn't be happy having a child in an elementary school where I never saw anyone except the office staff. Parents are part of the team that makes our students successful.

I agree. Here we do have teacher's unions but that has NOTHING to do with things like landscaping..that would be custodial staff not certified teachers. That said a classroom garden would be just that..a classroom garden. Teachers here welcome classroom help and parents being involved (and the district has a training program all volunteers must take to be in the classroom). ODS teacher has given me all sorts of tasks..knowing I have a younger child she has even come up with stuff I could do at home..writing up some books for a grant, cutting out math games and sorting them/setting up the game in bags..etc. I love being involved and it sends such a positive message to my ODS about school.

No silent lunches here either..don't get that why schools do that..way to bottle the kids up with no outlet. I know lunchroom noise can get insane..I have heard it across campus at DH's school but I think they can manage sound without making it a "silent lunch" (although I have heard of them instituting silence if the kids are just out of control..it's just not a regular thing).

 

[torinsmom]

I agree. Here we do have teacher's unions but that has NOTHING to do with things like landscaping..that would be custodial staff not certified teachers. That said a classroom garden would be just that..a classroom garden. Teachers here welcome classroom help and parents being involved (and the district has a training program all volunteers must take to be in the classroom). ODS teacher has given me all sorts of tasks..knowing I have a younger child she has even come up with stuff I could do at home..writing up some books for a grant, cutting out math games and sorting them/setting up the game in bags..etc. I love being involved and it sends such a positive message to my ODS about school.

No silent lunches here either..don't get that why schools do that..way to bottle the kids up with no outlet. I know lunchroom noise can get insane..I have heard it across campus at DH's school but I think they can manage sound without making it a "silent lunch" (although I have heard of them instituting silence if the kids are just out of control..it's just not a regular thing).

We don't even have silence in the classrooms. Now, it IS a public Montessori, so that plays into that part. But at lunch? Who wants to eat in silence? I have sent individual students to a silent table before for being out of control, but I have never made all my students be silent. I will tell them to do less talking and more eating if lunch is about to be over and they have a lot of food left, but other than that, I just encourage them to keep their voices low and not talk with their mouths full.