Eisner....Looking for some insight

[manning]

Where do I stand on Eisner as if it matters to anyone.

Splash Mountain.

Eisener said "we can't afford to build it"

Wells said " we can't afford NOT to build it"

So, who did more for Disney????

 

[MainStMandy]

Where do I stand on Eisner as if it matters to anyone.

Splash Mountain.

Eisener said "we can't afford to build it"

Wells said " we can't afford NOT to build it"

So, who did more for Disney????

 

[raidermatt]

Gosh I wish I had more than a quick minute right now. But just one thing for now...

The "credit to the leader" thing is a good point, but it's important to understand the corporate structure at the time. Yes, Eisner was CEO, but Wells did not report to him. Like Eisner, Wells reported directly to the board. That's very key to understanding how things could be getting done IN SPITE of Eisner.

Also, remember that Roy and the Bass Brothers wanted Eisner as the #2 man, with Wells in charge. Eisner would not agree to this, while Wells was willing to accept the the #2 role.

 

[mitros]

Eisner? He's my hero.

........really?

 

[mitros]

One can only wonder what would have happened to Disney if Wells did not die, and if Katzenburg stayed on.

 

[rutgers1]

If I wanted to learn more about Wells' and Katzenberg's contributions, what would be the best book to read? And what should I read if I want to hate Eisner as much as a few of the people here, lol?

I still can't hate the guy yet. Much of what I love about Disney came about during his tenure. It seems like the company was almost at a standstill in the years following Walt's death until Eisner arrived on the scene. And then the company exploded into growth again.

 

[deej696]

Well I think Disney War will help explain why many dislike Eisner, and it will give you more insight into both Wells and Katzenberg. I seem to remember that Storming the Kingdom also delved into Wells especially, and how he fit into the equation in the beginning, but I dont know of any others that focus more on he and Katzenberg.

What was mentioned earlier was dead on. Wells reported directly to the board, and the original idea was for him to be CEO. I am as pro-Eisner as anyone, but if I recall correctly, I think the quote from Eisner was "Who needs a Frank Wells?" As it turned out, he did.....

 

[Safari Queen]

I believe Eisner is responsible for allowing the Swan and Dolphin to loom over the landscape, monuments to ugly architecture completely out of step with the rest of WDW. I can forgive a lot but not that.

 

[rutgers1]

Someone tell me if I am wrong here, but if I recall, the Swan/Dolphin were the result of "fine print" in the Tishman contract to build Epcot, which pre-dated Eisner. I agree, though, I do not like those hotels.

 

[DancingBear]

I agree with a lot of the criticism of Eisner, but not the Swan and Dolphin hating. I like Michael Graves' stuff (do you think the Contemporary looks better?), for one thing, but beyond that, per Rutgers comment, the alternative was going to be a standard high-rise box hotel put up by Tischman.

 

[DancingBear]

I'm no big fan of Katzenberg (I haven't seen a bunch of great stuff coming out of Dreamworks Animation). Maybe he should have been fired in any event, but Eisner's attempt to cheat him out of his contractual compensation was an expensive embarassment. And Eisner is totally responsible for the Ovitz debacle.

 

[deej696]

Someone tell me if I am wrong here, but if I recall, the Swan/Dolphin were the result of "fine print" in the Tishman contract to build Epcot, which pre-dated Eisner. I agree, though, I do not like those hotels.

Yes I believe that is correct. When Eisner came on board, he originally wanted nothing to do with the hotel business. But after the Grand Floridian was built, he changed his mind and wanted out of the deal with Tishman. The result was Tishman being given the rights to the Swalphin. The Tishman contract as I understand it required that their hotels be on "Disney transportation." The original contract was done during the expansion of Epcot and its probably safe to say that Tishman assumed "transportation" to mean monorail. Disney moved quickly to establish the YandB Club in between the Swalphin and Epcot. In addition, they expanded the canal to DHS and started boat service to eliminate the "transportation" issue. At least thats how I think it all went down, maybe others have more info...

Personally I like the buildings, but I can see why many do not. I know there are many who dont like the fact that a "non-Disney" hotel is on property, but the alternative would have been "by Marriott" following the names of all Disney hotels. Not something I think any of us would have wanted. Although at the rate things are going now with Disney liscensing away the farm, that may happen anyway....

 

[JimB.]

Personally, IMHO, I think Mr. Eisner's tenure was in 2 phases:

Before Frank Wells died & after Frank Wells died.

I'm not sure of the "creativity" aspect, but it seemed like after FW's death, Mr. Eisner turned to "money squeezing" to keep the company profitable.

I dunno'. Maybe he was in over his head, but too proud to enlist the help he should have.

 

[pdchris]

Personally, IMHO, I think Mr. Eisner's tenure was in 2 phases:

Before Frank Wells died & after Frank Wells died.

I'm not sure of the "creativity" aspect, but it seemed like after FW's death, Mr. Eisner turned to "money squeezing" to keep the company profitable.

I dunno'. Maybe he was in over his head, but too proud to enlist the help he should have.

I think you're right about that. That was my impression, too, after reading DisneyWar.
I think that's the good/bad side of having a rather large ego. It gives you confidence to take chances thinking they'll work out but blinds you to the fact you may be wrong.
Probably the final straw for Mr. Eisner was when he chastised Apple for movie privacy. That didn't sit too well with Steve Jobs who was CEO of Apple and Pixar.

 

[Another Voice]

Someone tell me if I am wrong here, but if I recall, the Swan/Dolphin were the result of "fine print" in the Tishman contract to build Epcot, which pre-dated Eisner.

Okay - a long story to tell in little time.

The problem with WDW when it opened was its seasonality. Back in the seventies Dad still got his two weeks so everyone piled in the station wagon and took 'The Great American Family Vacation'. This meant that WDW was jammed during the typical vacation months, but empty at other times.

Disney thought that one way to help balance this out was by attracting more conventions and business meetings. They tended to happen during the times of year when tourism was slow - a perfect counterbalance. And with all the fine dining restaurants being planned for World Showcase at the EPCOT Center project, Disney had an instant nighttime entertainment and corporate event area.

But Disney was also very strapped by the effort of building EPCOT Center. It was said it was the largest project in the country. Also, while Disney had fantastic success running its own family vacation hotels, it knew nothing about running a convention center. Disney wanted first class facilities, that meant getting someone who knew what to do and not trying to do too much at the same time. So Disney signed a deal with Tishman and others to construct a convention facility and hotel adjacent to EPCOT Center.

However, EPCOT Center was barely opened with Michael Eisner took over. His first thought was that he hated EPCOT and wanted it sold off. His plan was to use the money to fund his main stream live action movies. But when that deal fell apart, his next thought was that he was going to squeeze every dime out of it as he could.

That meant not letting anyone in on all those hotel and convention revenues. He tried to break the contract but failed. He agreed to a new deal on the condition that he could select the architect for the new hotel. Eisner had been a life long architecture buff and he was determined that as head of Disney he could become a Patron of The Arts.

It went right to his head.

In his own mind, he was ruling over WDW the same way as the Medici ruled over Florence. It was his mission - no, his obligation - to bring Great Art to those mouth breathing, Wal Mart shopping, churro snorting "little people". Eisner never understood the appeal of something like the 'Haunted Mansion', but he knew that deep down you really wanted to see post-modern deconstructuralism in an ironic juxtaposition to mundane functionalism.

It was rumored he would fume when people didn't recognize the 'Venetian' dolphins on the roof and called them "fishes". I personally prefer to think of them as carp which have been dropped from a great height...but I don't get modern art either.

Anyway, Eisner spent hundreds of millions on his building projects. It all came crashing down with Euro Disney. Because of him the company dramatically overbuilt and forced such a crushing debt that even after 15 years the viability of the resort is in serious doubt. Suddenly Eisner, Savior of Architecture, lacked the funds for any more buildings.

Like all problems, Eisner simply abandoned and ignored the situation.

 

[DancingBear]

In his own mind, he was ruling over WDW the same way as the Medici ruled over Florence. It was his mission - no, his obligation - to bring Great Art to those mouth breathing, Wal Mart shopping, churro snorting "little people". Eisner never understood the appeal of something like the 'Haunted Mansion', but he knew that deep down you really wanted to see post-modern deconstructuralism in an ironic juxtaposition to mundane functionalism.

You're at the top of your game, A-V. Great stuff.

 

[Another Voice]

A writer once told me that the best comedy was simply to repeat what other people say.

A favorite story about the Bird and Fish was that at the opening celebration, Michael Graves was complaining bitterly to Eisner about "the servant quarters" (an exact quote) being built next door and how they had ruined his entire design plan. He was, of course, hating on the Yacht and Beach Club Resorts. I never heard how those two archeitects got along when both designed hotels for Euro Disney (Graves' New York and Stern's Bay).

 

[proteus]

On the positive side I liked the dramatic architecture of the new resorts brought in by Eisner. In my opinion the AKL and WL are dramatically improved over the Poly and Contemporary. There is more authenticity, greater realism and less of a "theme park" design feeling. While I like staying at both the Poly and CR it would be nice someday if they did a total makeover of them. After all it has been nearly 40 years.

 

[Goofster]

subscribing

 

[wdw4us2]

Walt also had the habit of taking any profits and turning them into the company. Walt Disney World was started with the profits from Mary Poppins, the studio itself was built with money earned on Snow White. Eisner gave himself massive bonuses and huge blocks of stock options.


The result was that Eisner became a massively wealthy, and temporarily powerful, man. And Disney has become a bloated and soulless marketing machine devoid. Fortunately we all can still enjoy what Walt left us.

Once again, AV states exactly how I feel about the situation. Well done!