EDITED TITLE: Should DVC Owners get more Perks?

[drusba]

Okay, so off-topic, I guess (and this is a serious question, not sarcasm) but why are/were discounted AP's possible for DVC, but when DVC-discounted general tickets are mentioned, everyone on here poo-poo's it? How would those be different?

AP discounts are worthless to me (and many other DVC owners), so a discounted general ticket would be much more valuable to some of us.

DVC actually had some discount-like options for purchasing daily tickets before it adopted the discount for AP's in 2005, after which the other discounted tickets disappeared. I am sure many would like to see some real discounts on regular tickets today.

However, what many would likely prefer is not to have the kind of "discounts" DVC had before 2005. The ones created were not desirable for many, e.g., DVC, for quite some time after AK opened, had a four-day park pass that cost less than regular passes bought for four days at the time, but the DVC pass had two undesirable restrictions. You could only buy it in four-day quantity -- you could not get more or less days; if you wanted more days at a discount, you would have to buy a second four-day pass to get it. Also, the pass was useable at any particular park only once, so it was pointless to buy one if you wanted to do MK or another park twice.

Thus, despite having discounted passes before the AP discount was created, Disney/DVC's prior history is not something that indicates Disney/DVC would create highly desirable discounted daily passes.

 

[tjkraz]

DVC actually had some discount-like options for purchasing daily tickets before it adopted the discount for AP's in 2005, after which the other discounted tickets disappeared. I am sure many would like to see some real discounts on regular tickets today.

However, what many would likely prefer is not to have the kind of "discounts" DVC had before 2005. The ones created were not desirable for many, e.g., DVC, for quite some time after AK opened, had a four-day park pass that cost less than regular passes bought for four days at the time, but the DVC pass had two undesirable restrictions. You could only buy it in four-day quantity -- you could not get more or less days; if you wanted more days at a discount, you would have to buy a second four-day pass to get it. Also, the pass was useable at any particular park only once, so it was pointless to buy one if you wanted to do MK or another park twice.

Thus, despite having discounted passes before the AP discount was created, Disney/DVC's prior history is not something that indicates Disney/DVC would create highly desirable discounted daily passes.

I don't recall the 4-day pass. But from approximately 2002 to 2005, the only ticket discount was on length of stay passes. The passes covered all theme parks and waterparks / DQ / Pleasure Island for the guest's entire LOS; if you were staying 7 nights, you had to buy 8 day passes which were priced with all of those features included.

But there were some major drawbacks to that. During this period, Disney introduced pre-purchase discounts for all park tickets, meaning that tickets were cheaper if you bought from home rather than waiting until arrival at WDW. Problem with the DVC discount was that it was only available upon arrival. So members did get a modest discount, but it was almost entirely wiped-out by the fact that we had to pay higher on-site prices.

The one silver lining was that they would allow DVC members to drop either the arrival or departure day from the LOS pass, which did save a little bit more. For a 7 night stay, DVC members could drop this down to a 7-day LOS pass, skipping park admission on either the day they arrive or the day they leave.

And I have absolutely no idea how they handled split stays...

 

[supersnoop]

Okay, so off-topic, I guess (and this is a serious question, not sarcasm) but why are/were discounted AP's possible for DVC, but when DVC-discounted general tickets are mentioned, everyone on here poo-poo's it? How would those be different?

AP discounts are worthless to me (and many other DVC owners), so a discounted general ticket would be much more valuable to some of us.

When I joined in 2014, there were intermittent deals on regular tickets. Then they offered intermittent deals on AP's. None were consistent discounts; just special deals that came along from time to time. Then, they offered access to an AP that was previously only available to Florida residents (it's not a special discount). I'd be happy with any deal on tickets. None of the options, however, are "normal." Everything changes ever few years.

 

[Chuck S]

Okay, so off-topic, I guess (and this is a serious question, not sarcasm) but why are/were discounted AP's possible for DVC, but when DVC-discounted general tickets are mentioned, everyone on here poo-poo's it? How would those be different?

AP discounts are worthless to me (and many other DVC owners), so a discounted general ticket would be much more valuable to some of us.

Given DVC was, in general, originally designed to be used for either a longer stay or several week-long stays throughout the year, it makes sense. The original 230 point buy in at OKW was enough points, depending on season, for a little over 3 weeks in a studio annually. When DVC lowered the inititial buy in , and stopped buying back (ROFR) a lot of smaller add-on contracts that went to resale, more people would stay 4 or 5 days a year, making an AP impractical for them. APs were the most beneficial ticket media for most DVCers. That is likely why the few discounts we've had for daily to weekly tickets weren't so popular. By allowing the initial buy-in to drop as low as 100 for a new member, DVC sold more contracts, but kind of shot themselves in the foot as far as finding ticket media that benefits everyone. And those discounts are negotiated between DVC/DVD and Disney Resorts with the goal of trying to encourage more first time purchasers to get larger contracts, hence the need for the increasing minimums to attain "blue card" status for discouints and such.

 

[Brian Noble]

Since free resort parking on points is a perk that is now being extended to all resort guests (so it's not really a "perk" for DVC points anymore), does anyone think that there is any chance that any new blue card perks will be happening?

No--at least, not because of this.

First: parking lot costs/maintenance/guards were (partially) paid for out the DVC Component's dues at each resort. It had nothing to do with Blue Card vs. Not Blue Card. Every owner paid for, and therefore was entitled to, park at the resort while staying there on points.

Second: Cash guests are still going to be paying for their share of the parking lot costs/maintenance/guards, but rather than as an add-on, it will be taken out of the room rate.

Third: You are basically asking "Now that Disney is offering an effective discount to cash guests, shouldn't I get something too?" That just answers itself from where I sit.

Yikes.

 

[Brian Noble]

And on the AP vs. tickets question, I have thoughts.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

I'll be happy if a new DVC benefit, due to the parking changes, will be that we now will save a couple bucks annually on our dues!

 

[Maistre Gracey]

The whole thing is truly silly.

I could run a hotel, and charge $0 for the room.

Fees:
Parking $15
Wifi $10
Hand soap $5
Towels $10
TP $10
Toilet flush $1/per
Lights $5
Running water $5
Hallway usage $5

Or, I could just charge for the room.
You get the point. You can slice a pie into as many slices as you wish, but it’s the same size pie.

 

[CarolynFH]

I'll be happy if a new DVC benefit, due to the parking changes, will be that we now will save a couple bucks annually on our dues!

It's been pointed out elsewhere - I can't remember where, may have been on DISboards or other forums I frequent - that it will actually cost us a little more. Look at your resort's budget - the revenue from cash guests paying for parking was actually planned on as income to owners, offsetting some of the operational expenses for the resorts, thus lowering dues a little bit (a couple of pennies a point, so not a whole lot).

 

[DonMacGregor]

It's been pointed out elsewhere - I can't remember where, may have been on DISboards or other forums I frequent - that it will actually cost us a little more. Look at your resort's budget - the revenue from cash guests paying for parking was actually planned on as income to owners, offsetting some of the operational expenses for the resorts, thus lowering dues a little bit (a couple of pennies a point, so not a whole lot).

Was just about to point that out. For example, if WL no longer charges for cash guest parking for their share of the parking lot costs (about 55% of all rooms), 2 things could happen:

1. BRV and CCV would have to absorb that cost and dues would go up.

2. Disney rolls those cash guest parking fees back into the room room charge and continues to pay their proportional share of the parking lot costs, and dues stay the same.

One way or another the costs will need to be covered, so we'll just assume the hotels will be rolling those costs back into the cash room rates. Dues aren't going down.

 

[Chuck S]

This should not cost DVCers anything, Disney will have to continue paying their percentage of parking lot maintenance on mixed use resorts Just because DIsney isn't "obviously" collecting money for it, what they have effectively done is roll that cost into their cash room rate...in other words, they basically discounted the "rental income" from the room by absorbing the "parking fee." If they own 55 % of the parking lot, they still need to pay 55% of the common parking lot maintenance or the resort.

UNLESS the deed and legal platt says DVC owns the parking area from point A to point B, and Disney Resorts owns the parking area from point C to Point D, in other words specifying just what parking area is specifically owned by DVC and which is specifically owned by the cash resort portion, meaning there would be a designated parking area for DVC guestts only and cash guests only. That seems much more complicated than just splitting the maintenance cost via percentage of the entire parking area.

Think of it this way, you purchase a business in a strip mall. Your business takes up 10% of total mall space. You share a common parking lot, without designated parking spotts for each business. You would be responsible for 10% of the upkeep of the parking lot.

 

[J-Dog]

.

 

[J-Dog]

No--at least, not because of this.

First: parking lot costs/maintenance/guards were (partially) paid for out the DVC Component's dues at each resort. It had nothing to do with Blue Card vs. Not Blue Card. Every owner paid for, and therefore was entitled to, park at the resort while staying there on points.

Second: Cash guests are still going to be paying for their share of the parking lot costs/maintenance/guards, but rather than as an add-on, it will be taken out of the room rate.

Third: You are basically asking "Now that Disney is offering an effective discount to cash guests, shouldn't I get something too?" That just answers itself from where I sit.

Yikes.

I guess I still don't see what is so wrong with this. Maybe my disposable income is just lower than most DVC owners, but every little bit helps for us. Why is "hoping" for a new benefit a bad thing?

 

[Hoppy-tn]

So another question? if I remember correctly when Staying through hotel side parking was $25 a night and then you could pay $10 additional a night for valet parking ( which we did before coming dvc members last May) once we become dvc members parking was free so if we wanted valet parking we had to pay the $35 a night ( which we chose not to do). Well now that parking is free will they reduce valet parking to only $10 a night?
I am sure the answer is no but that would nice and I would pay for that!

 

[Chuck S]

I guess I still don't see what is so wrong with this. Maybe my disposable income is just lower than most DVC owners, but every little bit helps for us. Why is "hoping" for a new benefit a bad thing?

There's nothing wrong with hoping for more perks and benefits, we'd all love them...But don;t expect them just because they give someone else a benefit. I mean, we'd all love to be able to get more discounts and stuff. But the Mouse just doesn;t give stuff away, they have to be able to justify the cost. For instance, if they gave NEW purchasers the same purchase incentives we original purchasers had of free park tickets for 8 years, you know they's sell more points. But there also has to be a benefit angle to the parks, as they are seperate operating companies under the corporate umbrella. How would that progam benefit parks that are already at high capacity for the number of Cast Members they currently have.

Perks have to come with benefots for both divisions, these days.

 

[New Mouse]

Military isn't worth comparing. That's a class all unto itself. Some of the benefits may be subsidized by the DOD. And the qualifications are...somewhat steep (respect!)

Disney Visa card members get very few perks. 10% off a handful of restaurants with blockout dates. 10% off merchandise purchases over $50. Maybe behind-the-scenes tour discounts. And those perks are only offered when the Visa is used for the purchase.

Some Annual Passholder perks are similar to DVC. Passholders do not have private lounges, exclusive (free) nights at the theme parks or chartered cruise ship voyages. There are special magic bands, pins and magnets for passholders...and different ones for DVC.

Most DVC members are not annual passholders. So there isn't always crossover.

And DVC members have the most substantial "perk" of all: a guaranteed discount on lodging for the next 40-50 years. I've said this before and I'll say it again: aside from the lack of active AP sales, DVC perks today are as good as they've ever been. Yes members paid a lot of money to be DVC owners. But that was done with the promise of years of discounted accommodations. It's not realistic to expect Disney to heap added benefits on top of that.

So then why do they use them so heavily to sell the product?

 

[Chuck S]

So another question? if I remember correctly when Staying through hotel side parking was $25 a night and then you could pay $10 additional a night for valet parking ( which we did before coming dvc members last May) once we become dvc members parking was free so if we wanted valet parking we had to pay the $35 a night ( which we chose not to do). Well now that parking is free will they reduce valet parking to only $10 a night?
I am sure the answer is no but that would nice and I would pay for that!

You never know, but I'm going to guess "No"

 

[Chuck S]

So then why do they use them so heavily to sell the product?

And stockholders get nada. They used to get a Magic Kingdom Club card. which gave discounts dimilar to the current AP and DVC discounts, along with a bit off of the dsy to dsy tickets...but that disappeared long ago.

 

[J-Dog]

There's nothing wrong with hoping for more perks and benefits, we'd all love them...But don;t expect them just because they give someone else a benefit. I mean, we'd all love to be able to get more discounts and stuff. But the Mouse just doesn;t give stuff away, they have to be able to justify the cost. For instance, if they gave NEW purchasers the same purchase incentives we original purchasers had of free park tickets for 8 years, you know they's sell more points. But there also has to be a benefit angle to the parks, as they are seperate operating companies under the corporate umbrella. How would that progam benefit parks that are already at high capacity for the number of Cast Members they currently have.

Perks have to come with benefots for both divisions, these days.

Yes. Well, I agree that my "hope" for benefits is self-serving. I admit that the importance of the benefits in return to a billion-dollar-mega-corporation, as compared to us "little people", are of secondary concern for me.

 

[bumbershoot]

While I am very glad that they came to their senses about parking for non-DVC, this is all feeling a lot like the truth behind coke/new coke/classic coke.

For those who don't know (who don't have Coke aficionados in their circle), in the 80s the CocaCola company decided they needed to change part of their formula. So they created New Coke. After just enough time for most of the stocks of proper Coke to be gone and for us to have forgotten what it tasted like, they said "oh OK, we'll give you your Coke back!" and put Classic Coke "back" on the shelves. Except since it had a new name (Classic Coke vs Coca Cola), it wasn't the same thing. It now had HFCS as a sweetener, not, proper cane sugar. For anyone who has tasted Mexican-bottled-for-sale-in-the-US Coke, it's a VERY different taste. (Mexican bottled Coke for sale in Mexico uses HFCS. Yes I know way too much about this. And I don't even drink the stuff anymore.) They hoodwinked us.

A lot of these changes over the last several years have felt like "we're going to do this so in the future when we do that, you'll be grateful."

But that doesn't change the fact that DVC points did get free parking

Yes, because we always did. Not a perk. Just part of the contract.

No, the last time I stayed on-site was 2002 until I bought DVC last year. Off-site was crazy-cheaper.

That would explain why you didn't know. I bought DVC in 2009 and started going to WDW at the end of 2010. Some of the stuff that I think has always been...hasn't. And just in 13 years, a lot has changed, mostly towards the negative side. It's important we keep sight of the fact that we don't always know what came before.

And somehow it came across as me being pissed that everyone else got an old benefit renewed....

No, it was because you thought it was a proper perk, not a contracted thing, and it felt like you weren't hearing people try to tell you that.

So, wait... you're saying that I should be kicked off the team because I didn't know 1 obscure clause in the contract?

It's not obscure. You have to read your contract. You have to know what you're buying. If you don't know what you're buying, you're going to get disappointed over and over and over. What you're responding to didn't say "get out" it was saying "you might want to opt out of this."

And don't forget all that snow removal.....!

Absolutely nothing to do with this, but my mom and stepdad lived in Country Walk Estates in Miami. Left the year before Hurricane Andrew (their home was one of the only ones left standing, because it was a model home and was made properly). For those who don't know, CWE was created and initially built by Disney. Not that Disney allowed the jury to know that. It had cute "turtle crossing" signs, it was just disneyfied everywhere. And at least one year, at xmastime, they brought in snow. It was fun, and then it had to be cleaned up. So at some point, their line items for CWE had snow removal written somewhere.

I am heading to Vegas next month (never been there before) and noticed that every hotel on the Strip charges for parking and for a "Resort Fee" on top of the room cost, which supposedly covers Wifi and use of the fitness center - i.e. charges that hotels in almost every other city incorporates into the nightly fee. AKAIK, Disney or Orlando don't this yet, but it appears to be a trend in tourist towns, and I had assumed it was coming until this reversal.

Disneyland does. Or did. Or did then didn't and did again. I was going to Disneyland a LOT between 2007 and 2012ish. And we watched their onsite resorts bounce back and forth with it.

It's all about taxation. Having it rolled in makes it a tiny bit cheaper for the consumer, because if it's pulled out, at least in Anaheim, it's taxed higher than the base rate for the hotel room. There's some sort of perk that Disney gets by having it pulled out. At one point they had parking AND a resort fee. I have no idea what it is at this point because even PPH (which I absolutely adore) is too expensive for me, and I dislike the Grand Californian intensely so I won't use my points there. Points for WDW, money for offsite at Disneyland.

So then why do they use them so heavily to sell the product?

They didn't for me. My guide was crystal clear about what you know you'll get and what can be changed. Of course, he's long gone from DVC LOL.