ECV's - Leaisure Vehicles???

[BostonDisneyKid]

Not sure if this is appropriate for this board so moderators feel free to move this thread if needed...

I was reading a thread about poor transportation and busses at one of the DVC resorts (resort will remain nameless) and couldn’t help think part of the problem might be that ECV’s (electric chair vehicles) are now being marketed to the masses as "leisure vehicles" for park touring and convenience for non-medical uses. I cant help but think the potential impact this could have on the transit systems and the parks themselves (not to mention the ethical and morality issues here) if this were to become a growing trend.

I have included some quotes below from the ECV rental websites, which I personally find disturbing...

Our scooters—perfect for adults of all ages and their families—are just plain fun and make any visit to one of Orlando’s world-famous attractions even more enjoyable!

Listen closely, standing in line for an hour or two for your favorite ride would be far less intense if you were sitting instead, sitting on our scooter rental with a canopy. You can expect at least a one hour wait on rides during busy seasons. You do not have to complain of hurting feet and being morbidly tired when you arrive to your hotel after a day of walking the parks in disney world. You can now enjoy your nightlife, go out to dinner, jazz ensemble, a show or nightclub after cruising the parks in our scooter rentals. Get the most out your vacation remember after all the hard work, savings, and preparations you deserve the right to enjoy your vacation.

Am I the only bothered by this? Comments? Thoughts?

 

[zackspal]

the use of these scooters is getting out of hand

 

[Chuck S]

I'm moving this to the DisABILITIES! board. I am bothered by the "marketing" of ECVs to anyone that "wants one," rather than to those that truly find the use of ECV helpful for medical problems. But, I don;t think there is much that can be done about it, unless the gov't makes it a requirement to have a prescription to own/lease one. Though, at the same time, older people don't always realize that they may need one for the parks, and don't realize how big the parks truly are. Some folks that really need it would have too much pride to ask a doctor for a prescription, even for a big trip like WDW.

 

[Budshark]

Am I the only bothered by this? Comments? Thoughts?

I am 100% with this. This is completely against the reason and purpose of these devices (and we won't talk about the health/fitness ramifications!)

If this is the trend, it will completely challenge the "balance" of managing the parks, transportation, flexibility.

I also personally have to admit it would cause me to change my behavior regarding getting out of the way and making special accomodations for people on scooters. I was already borderline when I saw a whole family cruising by - but if this becomes the norm I will be far less accomodating which isn't all that fair to those who need the scooters...

Chris

 

[miksilver]

My DM has many medical problems which have led to mobility issues -- she uses a scooter only when forced to, not always admitting she can't walk as well or as far as she used to. I'm going to have my work cut out for me to convince her to rent a scooter for our upcoming trip because she can be quite stubborn sometimes. It annoys me greatly when I see the gross misuse of scooters. IMHO, the ones who "need" the scooters are the ones who wish they didn't need them at and could walk like they used to...

 

[BostonDisneyKid]

... the ones who "need" the scooters are the ones who wish they didn't need them

AMEN !!!

 

[cmwade77]

I propose we flood the owners of the site the OP mentioned and any others like it with comments about this, anyone with me?

 

[Michigan]

The thing that really bothers me is that there are so many rented ones that the shows handicap seating is all filled with them. That means people like us my 2 daughter's can't walk or stand and have their own manual chairs are told come back to the next show and arrive 30-40 minutes before it starts to be sure you get in. Now call me nuts but if they were able to walk to get into their rented scooter then they should have to park them outside and sit in the regular seating.

 

[Starr W.]

Not sure if this is appropriate for this board so moderators feel free to move this thread if needed...

I was reading a thread about poor transportation and busses at one of the DVC resorts (resort will remain nameless) and couldn’t help think part of the problem might be that ECV’s (electric chair vehicles) are now being marketed to the masses as "leisure vehicles" for park touring and convenience for non-medical uses. I cant help but think the potential impact this could have on the transit systems and the parks themselves (not to mention the ethical and morality issues here) if this were to become a growing trend.

I have included some quotes below from the ECV rental websites, which I personally find disturbing...


Wall Street Journal had a story about the use of ECV's as Leisure Vehicles last spring some time. Some 20 something was quoted it didn't tire him out to do the parks on an ECV so he had enough energy to party over at PI or the Boardwalk.

My DH yelled at a couple of guys that were using them with each having 2 preschoolers on board with them. They were driving through Epcot like they were drag racing. They got a look at DH(big guy) and slowed down. And if anyone wants to go one about "hidden disablilities", I am very well acquainted with them, my eldest is autistic and the only hidden disablility these guys had was a big lack of common sense.

 

[cmwade77]

The thing that really bothers me is that there are so many rented ones that the shows handicap seating is all filled with them. That means people like us my 2 daughter's can't walk or stand and have their own manual chairs are told come back to the next show and arrive 30-40 minutes before it starts to be sure you get in. Now call me nuts but if they were able to walk to get into their rented scooter then they should have to park them outside and sit in the regular seating.

Well, some of the rented one truly need it, but they should be asked to transfer out, as someone with a rented chair should be able to do, not necessarily walk to their seats, but at least drive up near them and transfer then another member of their party or a CM could park it for them and get it after the show is over.

 

[Belle1962]

Well, some of the rented one truly need it, but they should be asked to transfer out, as someone with a rented chair should be able to do, not necessarily walk to their seats, but at least drive up near them and transfer then another member of their party or a CM could park it for them and get it after the show is over.

I try to park and sit whenever possible HOWEVER if it is a show where the benches are bleacher style without a back I can not do it. For indoor shows like Fantasmic, Muppets, etc I offer to park my ecv but need it for the wait between shows. CM's are often busy trying to get people into the show and seated (please move all the way down your row, do not stop in the middle) to be able to park it for me. Last time we were at ITTBA in AK, there were soo many ecv's that we were told it would be TWO more shows before we could get in. I offerred to "drive through" and park my ecv and sit in a regular chair and the CM said "no", I couldn't park it off to the side. I just assumed this was a fire/emergency escape issue. I almost NEVER use the wheelchair area at the parks (except for MGM--for some reason I find the crowds really "bunched up" there and the wheelchair spot by GMR is usually empty/not crowded) and I prefer other viewing spots for Illuminations and WISHES.

There are now so many "rental leisure users" that I have considered purchasing one instead of renting each time (although my health insurance covers the rental) just because there are soooooo many rentals now that I feel the CM's and other guests are thinking that people in "rentals" are really "leisure users". However--I usually drive and would not have room for all the stuff we put in the trunk and then the ecv. It is much more convienient for me to just rent there. Plus I like the added security of knowing that if I have any issues Walker would be right there to assist me--quickly and pleasantly. With my own ecv, I would be on my own if anything happened or paying for a repair. And with the increasing number of people who think they can lean on the chair, step on the board while waiting, place their child on it, rest their feet against it, etc.-- a repair could become an issue.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I am bothered by that marketing stratgey as well, but please DO NOT assume that every person (even the ones who appear to be able bodied) are just using the ECV for "fun". I had several trips a few years ago where I needed one because of chronic fatigue issues. I would never have been able to keep our trip plans if I couldn't have had the ECV. On our Thanksgiving trip, our DDIL (who is only 33) will need to use an ECV because of a previous spinal injury. Last time she was with us, she got all kinds of rude comments and nasty looks. Believe me, if she didn't NEED to use one, she wouldn't.

 

[Haley Whippet]

I agree, If you need it fine!
I am another one with "hidden disabilities" and have had some very weird comments made to me while on my scooter..
"Isn't that just so cute and fun!" I would love to be able to walk long distances..
I had to have a Rx to get mine through insurance. Shouldn't everyone ?
Deb

 

[KPeveler]

well rental companies rent to anyone, and i agree, marketing them as devices for the lazy makes people discount those who have a real need.

 

[Belle1962]

I had to have a Rx to get mine through insurance. Shouldn't everyone ?Deb

To have insurance cover it you need a RX but to rent one from an offsite company you don't have to have one. Hence the "marketing" of them as a convienience tool--which if you think about it their name implies anyway--electronic CONVIENIENCE vehicle--although there is some debate about what the "c" actually stands for.

While it would be nice if something could be done so that "leisure renters" aren't rampant, I don't think those companies will "bite the hand" and require any type of documentation. Plus I think anything other than a Rx would violate HIPPA rules.

The plus side is--most lines and attractions are mainstreamed and the ecv/wheelchair alone will not gain them much in line time or waits. Once these people realize this--and the fact that they can be shut out of shows and have to wait due to a lack of available ecv/wheelchair space they may just decide it isn't worth it. $30 - $40 per day for an entire week can be a lot of money to spend just to have time for dancing in the evening.

 

[waltfan1957]

The thing that really bothers me is that there are so many rented ones that the shows handicap seating is all filled with them. That means people like us my 2 daughter's can't walk or stand and have their own manual chairs are told come back to the next show and arrive 30-40 minutes before it starts to be sure you get in. Now call me nuts but if they were able to walk to get into their rented scooter then they should have to park them outside and sit in the regular seating.

totally agree

 

[SueM in MN]

While it would be nice if something could be done so that "leisure renters" aren't rampant, I don't think those companies will "bite the hand" and require any type of documentation. Plus I think anything other than a Rx would violate HIPPA rules.

There is nothing about HIPAA that would be violated by aking for documentation.
HIPAA (the letters stand for Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) has nothing to do with it at all.
HIPAA has to do with:
Insurance
- rules regarding group insurance and the insurance companies not being allowed to refuse insurance based on things like health status, medical history, genetic information, or disability
- rules regarding the waiting period that insurance companies can have in place regarding covering people with pre-existing conditions.
Fraud and abuse
- including things like whether health care that was given was medically necesssary
Privacy
- including regulations for the use and disclosure of Protected Health Information (PHI). PHI is any information about health status, provision of health care, or payment for health care that can be linked to an individual.
- the 'use and disclosure' part means that I, as a health care provider, am not authorized to look at all parts of any patient's records; I can only look at the parts I need to look at for the job that I am doing.

The patient can share medical information with anyone they want to. So, if someone chooses to bring a doctor's letter with them when they rent an ECV, they have that right. If someone wanted to carry a copy of their entire medical record around with them and show it to people, they have that right.

The law that says they can't require proof is the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), which does say the person with a disability can't be required to provide proof that they have a disability in order to get accomidation for needs related to their disability. So, if someone says they have a disability and need to rent one, they can't be required to provide proof (if insurance is paying for it, the insurance company does have the right to say they won't pay for it unless there is proof that it is a legitimate health related need).

That said, I wonder how many people actually are renting them just for leisure. I would bet it's a pretty small number (mostly because of the price) compared to the number who actually do need them.
The worst thing about it is that lots of people have the attitude mentioned here:

I also personally have to admit it would cause me to change my behavior regarding getting out of the way and making special accomodations for people on scooters. I was already borderline when I saw a whole family cruising by - but if this becomes the norm I will be far less accomodating which isn't all that fair to those who need the scooters...

Chris

 

[SueM in MN]

The thing that really bothers me is that there are so many rented ones that the shows handicap seating is all filled with them. That means people like us my 2 daughter's can't walk or stand and have their own manual chairs are told come back to the next show and arrive 30-40 minutes before it starts to be sure you get in. Now call me nuts but if they were able to walk to get into their rented scooter then they should have to park them outside and sit in the regular seating.

I agree. We have run into the same thing.
If someone is renting a scooter, most can probably walk the distance to get in to a seat and leave the handicapped seating for the people who are not able to use any other seats.

My DH yelled at a couple of guys that were using them with each having 2 preschoolers on board with them. They were driving through Epcot like they were drag racing. They got a look at DH(big guy) and slowed down. And if anyone wants to go one about "hidden disablilities", I am very well acquainted with them, my eldest is autistic and the only hidden disablility these guys had was a big lack of common sense.

If those guys owned their ECVs, then (even though it shows a lacck of common sense), the preschoolers could ride with them.

If they rented them from the parks or any of the off-site rental places, part of the agreement is that no one under the age of 18 yrs will be allowed to drive the ECV and only one person can be on it at a time. Another part of the agreement is that you will drive in an appropriate manner (drag racing doesn't fit that).
So besides showing a big lack of common sense, they were in violation of their rental contract.
If they were park ECVs, they could be confiscated. If they were off-site rentals, they would get a warning and could be told to leave the park if they continue to act irresponsibly.

 

[mng1310]

I can tell you exactly why they are being marketed this way: For the retailer or manufacturer, getting reimbursement from an insurance company is a total hassle. Numerous forms, letters and documentation. are required, and if you've coded one of those fields incorrectly, you won't be reimbursed the $. Even if you do everything correctly, you likely won't get 100%.

Marketing these as a leisure vehicle (like a Segway), means the person pays cash up front. The retailer is gets the price they asked for without the hassle of dealing with the insurance company. I am not saying this is right, but it comes down to guaranteed $'s.

On a side note, reading the OP's thread reminded me of two famous men who used ECV's for this purpose: George Costanza and Homer Simpson

 

[snowwite]

The thing that really bothers me is that there are so many rented ones that the shows handicap seating is all filled with them. That means people like us my 2 daughter's can't walk or stand and have their own manual chairs are told come back to the next show and arrive 30-40 minutes before it starts to be sure you get in. Now call me nuts but if they were able to walk to get into their rented scooter then they should have to park them outside and sit in the regular seating.

What if they cant walk in to sit in regular seating? Who are to judge. I cant bear weight on my heels. We are going Friday and I will be in a scooter I am having delivered to the resort. I am not paralyzed but I am just as entitled to be comfortable and safe as someone who cant stand at all.

I am bothered by that marketing stratgey as well, but please DO NOT assume that every person (even the ones who appear to be able bodied) are just using the ECV for "fun". I had several trips a few years ago where I needed one because of chronic fatigue issues. I would never have been able to keep our trip plans if I couldn't have had the ECV. On our Thanksgiving trip, our DDIL (who is only 33) will need to use an ECV because of a previous spinal injury. Last time she was with us, she got all kinds of rude comments and nasty looks. Believe me, if she didn't NEED to use one, she wouldn't.

The nasty people bother me too. I almost cancelled the trip when I found out I would need either a w/c or a ECV.

I agree, If you need it fine!
I am another one with "hidden disabilities" and have had some very weird comments made to me while on my scooter.. Now It isn't just "cute and fun!" I would love to be able to walk long distances..
I had to have a Rx to get mine through insurance. Shouldn't everyone ?
Deb

Yup. I got an Rx but I am renting from CARE and they said they dont need it.