"Ear"tiquette

[AllyReggie]

Disagree with your entire post. Emphatically.

Let's pull on the heart strings. Let's say a grandpa is there with his children and grandchildren. He entire life he has enjoyed taking his family to WDW and watching the shows, his favorite thing to do. Grandpa has been diagnosed with a terminal illness and this will be the last time he gets to watch the fireworks at Magic Kingdom. Ever. You are saying Grandpa viewing the fireworks, one last time, is not as important as a small child viewing the fireworks?

So yeah, that's hyperbole, but I still think it's ridiculous to say that anyone's view is more deserving than anyone else. WDW is for everyone, not just children, not just adults.

Should people be respectful of others? Of course, that goes without saying.

Using terminal illness or other personal issues as weapon here is kind of... Cruel, don't you think? I prefer not to use people's death as a weapon of self worth.

But I understand your point. And I'd say, if Grandpa wants to see the show and has shown up early enough to get a spot with his grandkids, no one should impeed their view. Whose is more important? Grandpa would probably say the kids, even as much as he wants to see it, he probably wants to see their faces light up even more.

Just because I believe we should consider children's views and understand that they deserve to see a show designed for them, doesn't mean that other people don't deserve to see. Only sith deal in absolutes. I just like to remember that 3' kids already have a hard time seeing over 5' adults. And no amount of head turning is gonna help them. We have to help and be mindful for them.

 

[Kae]

They sell them people wear them. Why does everything have to have rules/ Etiquette?

 

[Farro]

Using terminal illness or other personal issues as weapon here is kind of... Cruel, don't you think? I prefer not to use people's death as a weapon of self worth.

But I understand your point. And I'd say, if Grandpa wants to see the show and has shown up early enough to get a spot with his grandkids, no one should impeed their view. Whose is more important? Grandpa would probably say the kids, even as much as he wants to see it, he probably wants to see their faces light up even more.

Just because I believe we should consider children's views and understand that they deserve to see a show designed for them, doesn't mean that other people don't deserve to see. Only sith deal in absolutes. I just like to remember that 3' kids already have a hard time seeing over 5' adults. And no amount of head turning is gonna help them. We have to help and be mindful for them.

No, it's called using hyperbole as an example to prove one's point. Grandpa is a fictitious character.

It seems you are sensitive to people disagreeing with you, so I'll let this conversation get back to the etiquette of ears.

 

[mom2rtk]

They sell them people wear them. Why does everything have to have rules/ Etiquette?

Because Disney is full of thousands of people in close quarters. Being considerate of others is an important piece of keeping it a nice place to visit.

 

[22Tink]

Because Disney is full of thousands of people in close quarters. Being considerate of others is an important piece of keeping it a nice place to visit.

Well said!
I always try to be conscious of my ears during shows and rides and I have no problem politely asking others to do the same if they're impeding our view.

 

[AllyReggie]

No, it's called using hyperbole as an example to prove one's point. Grandpa is a fictitious character.

It seems you are sensitive to people disagreeing with you, so I'll let this conversation get back to the etiquette of ears.

I think it was about two things, etiquette of ears and putting kids on your shoulders, so I think our conversation still has value to the original remarks.
And, though it may seem like sensitivity, I assure you it is passion. I am a former national forensics leaguer, debate is what I do... and I love it! Its so important to follow up your beliefs with good reason and logic, especially when facts are all but non existent (we can't, for example, pull from a qualitative study on the frequency of people's dissatisfaction with a particular event in the magic kingdom based on ears or children on shoulders blocking views) so we have to debate or converse about or personal logic on the subject. Doing that helps other people inform their opinion.

I will say that simply typing "ridiculous" or "absurd" isn't so much a disagreement as an attempt to dismiss and dissuade people from offering their take or discussing the thought in any way. So, that is why I continued, as a means to flesh out the real logic behind the disagreement, because... if I am in the wrong I want to understand and change my opinion.

I don't disagree that people who think their child is ENTITLED to a view just because they are a child are rude and uncouth.
I don't disagree that people putting their kids on their shoulders with reckless abandon and no thought for the people behind them are awful.
I don't disagree that everyone who shows up to a parade or stage show deserves a view of the parade.

MY only hang up is, that as we pack more and more adults into these clearly designed for children shows and parades, the children, who have no voice or way of moving to the side or changing their position to get a view, start doing that thing that EVERYONE hates: darting through people to push their way to the front or screaming and crying they can't see through the whole dang thing.

I think we as a Disney society can be attentive enough of the people around us, and understand the expectations of the scenario your in to help each other benefit from the event.

Also, as a debate aside, can I just say that hyperbole is pretty much the bane of any argumentation? You will ALWAYS be able to come up with an exception to any instance, and create a fictitious character that pulls at the heartstrings of everyone, in an attempt to sway people to your opinion. In debate we called this "dead babies on the flow" and if through the flow of your debate you had more dead babies stacked up on your opponents side, you might win. But everyone hated it because you could connive a million dead babies into your arguments through colorful means, and it still wouldn't answer the questions presented in the debates. Likewise, hyperbole doesn't answer the question of whether or not we should be mindful of audience and others, it just introduces an element of emotion to the discourse that is unnecessary. Since it doesn't exist, it doesn't actually matter.

As I said (and will say again) I think that if you believe that the parades were designed with adults and seniors in mind, you are probably mistaken, based on the historical discussions and interviews imagineers and cast members have had on the topic, they seem to be designed for the tiny ones. I think that if we accept that these events were meant to be experience as children paramount, and then through the eyes of a child secondarily (as in, put on your own child at heart glasses) it only means that we should be mindful of the people around us, and not get bent out of shape about the children trying to get the same view as we have through our natural height.
I don't think it means we should accept rude behavior or inconsiderate action, but instead just enjoy all the aspects that we can control, if that makes any sense. I don't subscribe to the idea that it means you need to bend over backwards to allow children to get a better view than you, and certainly wouldn't imply that.

 

[Farro]

I think it was about two things, etiquette of ears and putting kids on your shoulders, so I think our conversation still has value to the original remarks.
And, though it may seem like sensitivity, I assure you it is passion. I am a former national forensics leaguer, debate is what I do... and I love it! Its so important to follow up your beliefs with good reason and logic, especially when facts are all but non existent (we can't, for example, pull from a qualitative study on the frequency of people's dissatisfaction with a particular event in the magic kingdom based on ears or children on shoulders blocking views) so we have to debate or converse about or personal logic on the subject. Doing that helps other people inform their opinion.

I will say that simply typing "ridiculous" or "absurd" isn't so much a disagreement as an attempt to dismiss and dissuade people from offering their take or discussing the thought in any way. So, that is why I continued, as a means to flesh out the real logic behind the disagreement, because... if I am in the wrong I want to understand and change my opinion.

I don't disagree that people who think their child is ENTITLED to a view just because they are a child are rude and uncouth.
I don't disagree that people putting their kids on their shoulders with reckless abandon and no thought for the people behind them are awful.
I don't disagree that everyone who shows up to a parade or stage show deserves a view of the parade.

MY only hang up is, that as we pack more and more adults into these clearly designed for children shows and parades, the children, who have no voice or way of moving to the side or changing their position to get a view, start doing that thing that EVERYONE hates: darting through people to push their way to the front or screaming and crying they can't see through the whole dang thing.

I think we as a Disney society can be attentive enough of the people around us, and understand the expectations of the scenario your in to help each other benefit from the event.

Also, as a debate aside, can I just say that hyperbole is pretty much the bane of any argumentation? You will ALWAYS be able to come up with an exception to any instance, and create a fictitious character that pulls at the heartstrings of everyone, in an attempt to sway people to your opinion. In debate we called this "dead babies on the flow" and if through the flow of your debate you had more dead babies stacked up on your opponents side, you might win. But everyone hated it because you could connive a million dead babies into your arguments through colorful means, and it still wouldn't answer the questions presented in the debates. Likewise, hyperbole doesn't answer the question of whether or not we should be mindful of audience and others, it just introduces an element of emotion to the discourse that is unnecessary. Since it doesn't exist, it doesn't actually matter.

As I said (and will say again) I think that if you believe that the parades were designed with adults and seniors in mind, you are probably mistaken, based on the historical discussions and interviews imagineers and cast members have had on the topic, they seem to be designed for the tiny ones. I think that if we accept that these events were meant to be experience as children paramount, and then through the eyes of a child secondarily (as in, put on your own child at heart glasses) it only means that we should be mindful of the people around us, and not get bent out of shape about the children trying to get the same view as we have through our natural height.
I don't think it means we should accept rude behavior or inconsiderate action, but instead just enjoy all the aspects that we can control, if that makes any sense. I don't subscribe to the idea that it means you need to bend over backwards to allow children to get a better view than you, and certainly wouldn't imply that.

Okay. Have a great day!

 

[Kestryl]

I didn’t noticed ears as an issue anywhere- every time someone had them on in front of me, they took them off for the show/spectacle. So kudos to all!

We did noticed an issue with kids on shoulders. When watching the MK fireworks from the Tomorrowland entrance, there was an unspoken agreement from the small group there to leave some empty space in front of kids who were in strollers. At least until a rude trio of adults waltzed in 2 minutes after the start and stood right in front of the strollers with kids on their shoulders. They could have easily stood in the back behind the parents behind the strollers, but no, they decided their enjoyment was the only thing that mattered.

The crowd for the Wonderful World of Animation show at HS was the best. Pretty much everyone sat for the duration of the show. It was so easy to see everything.

 

[wendlle]

I didn’t noticed ears as an issue anywhere- every time someone had them on in front of me, they took them off for the show/spectacle. So kudos to all!

We did noticed an issue with kids on shoulders. When watching the MK fireworks from the Tomorrowland entrance, there was an unspoken agreement from the small group there to leave some empty space in front of kids who were in strollers. At least until a rude trio of adults waltzed in 2 minutes after the start and stood right in front of the strollers with kids on their shoulders. They could have easily stood in the back behind the parents behind the strollers, but no, they decided their enjoyment was the only thing that mattered.

The crowd for the Wonderful World of Animation show at HS was the best. Pretty much everyone sat for the duration of the show. It was so easy to see everything.

And that's exactly what they do in the Asian Parks. Everyone SITS for the shows and parades.
Seriously, the US parks (WDW especially) are so full of rude people. It's getting worse and worse each time we visit.
And again I'll say it. Please don't put your kids on your shoulders, I've seen kids fall backwards TWICE. A view is not worth a hospital trip, or worse death! Hitting your head on the pavement is no joke.

 

[Jennasis]

And that is completely awful and rude of them, and I am sorry your IVF was (is?) Not working, infertility is awful. My thoughts are with you.
But people are trying to back my words into a corner of absolutes. Just because the Parades and shows are "for kids" doesn't mean you can't enjoy them too, and it doesn't mean you don't deserve the spot you got when you showed up in time to get that spot.

It just means that imagineers designed the performance with kids in mind. They didn't build the intracacies or complexities they might have from an adult show, and the music and choreography are such that most young children can understand the movements and follow along with the story even if they cannot hear everything.

I am only saying that, as the target audience for these Parades and shows is kids, we should be mindful of the people around us so that our actions don't prevent them from having a good time.
As someone who is short, I am almost always behind people who block my view, but I can't ask them to get shorter FOR ME. I have to do deal with it.

People who have never had to deal with learning to find angles to look might find this cumbersome and rude, but since it is part of my routine at the parks anyway, I guess my perspective is skewed toward understanding. I try not to let other people's actions mess up my day at Disney. And I just encourage everyone to think about the people around them and their view.

So please don't get hung up on my opinion that this place is for kids, that's just my opinion and not worth calling absurd.

Had they built the shows with kids in mind they would have built in a way for kids to see it without needing to be on their parent's shoulders.

Putting your kid on your shoulders is rude (unless you have nothing but a wall behind you). You've blocked the view of not only all the adults behind you, but all those deserving kids too.

 

[Solfe]

As a short person, I get picked off as a short kid in the dark. Wearing ears makes it worse. As a man, I don't have the trouble of hair care with the little cap ears, so I take them off for every show.

My wife on the other hand likes to wear hers, but if they bother someone, or if she thinks they'll bother someone, she removes them. On our last trip, at the Candlelight Processional of all places, someone asked her if she was just rude or liked to bother people with her ears. They didn't even wait until she sat down.

Wow.

Then they amplified by chat-screaming over the performance. We fortunately were able to move away.

 

[DisLiss]

They sell them people wear them. Why does everything have to have rules/ Etiquette?

Because Disney is full of thousands of people in close quarters. Being considerate of others is an important piece of keeping it a nice place to visit.

Disney is also a place with actual rules. And as a rule follower I definitely try to follow every one of them. However, when every guest at the park has their own mental list of personal rules/etiquette that they have made up and yet expect everyone else to follow, they're asking to be disappointed. Being considerate is totally subjective. You may be taking your ears off and thinking you are so considerate and polite, and I'm behind you not caring one bit about your ears, but totally aggravated by something else you're doing instead, kwim? I'm far more bothered by standing behind someone who's wearing perfume or cologne than by someone wearing ears for instance. But I'm not going to start calling out folks for wearing perfume or cologne in tightly packed public places as being inconsiderate.

Every one has their own pet peeves and you simply cannot make everyone happy. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't try your best to be kind and considerate, but it does mean that I totally get the question posed above. The problem isn't actual rules and etiquette...the problem is not being able to guess what extra rules and etiquette others may be expecting from you as well. As we've seen here in this thread, what personal rule one person finds important (allowing kids to have priority in certain situations) is definitely a personal rule that others here are not on board with.

 

[DisLiss]

On our last trip, at the Candlelight Processional of all places, someone asked her if she was just rude or liked to bother people with her ears. They didn't even wait until she sat down.

Now see, after that, even if your wife left those ears on for the entire time, I'd still not consider her rude. The person who said that to her, however...wow indeed. Super rude. And I think that's part of the issue with the "personal rules". People seem to then think they're entitled to hand out chastisement for any perceived rule-breaking, and that's just the kind of interaction I like to see between guests.

 

[Jennasis]

Disney is also a place with actual rules. And as a rule follower I definitely try to follow every one of them. However, when every guest at the park has their own mental list of personal rules/etiquette that they have made up and yet expect everyone else to follow, they're asking to be disappointed. Being considerate is totally subjective. You may be taking your ears off and thinking you are so considerate and polite, and I'm behind you not caring one bit about your ears, but totally aggravated by something else you're doing instead, kwim? I'm far more bothered by standing behind someone who's wearing perfume or cologne than by someone wearing ears for instance. But I'm not going to start calling out folks for wearing perfume or cologne in tightly packed public places as being inconsiderate.

Every one has their own pet peeves and you simply cannot make everyone happy. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't try your best to be kind and considerate, but it does mean that I totally get the question posed above. The problem isn't actual rules and etiquette...the problem is not being able to guess what extra rules and etiquette others may be expecting from you as well. As we've seen here in this thread, what personal rule one person finds important (allowing kids to have priority in certain situations) is definitely a personal rule that others here are not on board with.

I'll do it...it's rude. If I can smell you more than a foot away then you're wearing too much of whatever you're wearing.

 

[AllyReggie]

Had they built the shows with kids in mind they would have built in a way for kids to see it without needing to be on their parent's shoulders.

Putting your kid on your shoulders is rude (unless you have nothing but a wall behind you). You've blocked the view of not only all the adults behind you, but all those deserving kids too.

I don't know about that. The show spaces were designed decades ago, when there was a lot smaller crowd in the parks, meaning ample space for viewing. At that time (looking through pictures of WDW and DL from the 70s and 80s even) you can see that its mostly kids watching the parades, with parents off to the side. I talked to my dad (whose family lived in Anaheim and would frequently go to the parks) and he said that it always seemed to him that his Dad would take the opportunity of the parades to go smoke, leaving him (between 4 and 10 years old at the time) with his older siblings at the parade route. Can't really do that anymore but it certainly didn't seem like the space was imagineered with a concern that there would be so many children and adults vying for the best viewing spots in the house. You'd have kids up front and the parents in the back watching from afar, with a few parents or nannies sprinkled in crouched down at kid level.

Granted, pictures don't tell the whole story, but I don't think 60-70s sensibilities could have imagined how gripped we have become to our children and designed a stage/road and seating/standing spaces that would alleviate the height issues that might ensue due to park capacity increases.

That said, from what I have seen of most of the shows and parades, they do try to put a lot of cool stuff up as high as possible to allow the most viewing to the most people. Rapunzel and Flynn's float comes to mind here. Imagineer's do what they can with the space they have and make the most of it.

More to the point, when I said "designed for children" I meant more of the actual choreography, content and the like, not the location which modern day imagineers really can't do anything about.

I do wonder about that though, is there something that Disney can do to facilitate better viewing? Do they care? Its clear that, as more people get into the parks they have moved away from a lot of the parades, and towards fireworks... is that there subtle hint that the hassle of making positive viewing at Parades and Stage shows for the majority of the audience is just too much? Maybe!

 

[robinb]

I'll do it...it's rude. If I can smell you more than a foot away then you're wearing too much of whatever you're wearing.

Or ... not enough of what you should!

 

[Disxuni]

I understand people genuinely being oblivious and thinking wearing ears is not going to affect anyone's view, especially the ones were it's a headband. It's second nature to wear these ears to some people and I'm sure if guests didn't feel these hats slightly on their head they would forget about them entirely, some probably already do. So, it's understandable to me that some might have to ask nicely to remove them. I do not believe we should automatically assume people know these things, as we have too many people with different backgrounds, ages, and being tired and hot.

If you think about it, the same etiquette we have for hats (taking your hat off inside) could be applied to Mickey Ears and I'm surprised that it's not announced to take them off prior to a show, or ride from the beginning, considering Mickey Ears (before we had headbands ones) is a hat and taking your hat off indoors and during certain moments was more taught as proper etiquette more so back in the day rather than it is now.