Dysfunctional Families

[VSL]

I do not subscribe to the belief that just because someone is related to us that we should maintain a relationship.

Exactly - where would that leave us adoptees?

California Girl - I don't think that a parent insisting that their child be buckled in when in laws are driving is a 'philisophical disagreement' (as you are claiming). It's a matter of safety and, potentially, the child's life could be at risk.

 

[kristen821]

It really depends on what you consider dysfunction...

Not putting your child in a seatbelt is dangerous, but my kids are old enough to buckle themselves and they would get the danger of not wearing a seatbelt speech before going with anyone that doesn't enforce that rule. So I would allow my kids to go in that situation.
My mil left 4 out of 6 of her children to live with a man she met on the internet. 3 of the 4 were still minors . Now she doesn't have any of the minor children they are all spread out between group homes (which the child doesn't need to be there) friends, and family. My kids may have surpervised visits if she ever wanted one, but will never be left alone with her, because I have a gut feeling that something isn't right with her or her boyfriend.
Sil married someone that was arrested for criminal sexual assualt to a minor so my children will not be aloud there alone either. We don't know what her husband actually did and only saw that he is a registered sexual offender on the internet.
There are also different types of alcoholics. The type that drinks responsibly and the kind that doesn't so it really depends on the type of dysfunction your family has before you can allow your children to be with the family.
My main priority is protecting my kids and not making them to be tolorant of others at this point they are tolorant of everyone, because they don't see how bad people can really be. I think as long as I am tolorants of others my kids will grow to be tolorant of others, but I don't want them to ever be tolorant of abusive behavior.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

California Girl - I don't think that a parent insisting that their child be buckled in when in laws are driving is a 'philisophical disagreement' (as you are claiming). It's a matter of safety and, potentially, the child's life could be at risk.

I agree with this.

So to add to the understanding how this would be considered "toxic"....
Your parent is being hostile toward you (refusal to buckle) and the innocent is the child. Hostility is toxic.
The fact that you pretend this is a "philosophic disagreement" could be fear of becoming an adult with the parent, taking charge, or putting down your lines in the sand.
It can be scary for you because you are trying to hold on to what you have now and do not want to "upset the apple cart". Textbook child of alcoholic parent relationship. So you offer your child as a "peace offering" and allow them to compromise their safety. (Frequently done in sexual molestation as well.) Which is common when you come from a "toxic background".
Pretty standard OPs...

The thing is you have to break the cycle so your kids do not model this behavior.

One of the joys of being an adult is to have your own rules with your own family and have mutual respect between the parent/child relationship. You are missing out on that. I consider that toxic as well.

Know where to draw lines and recognize situations. Take responsibilty where appropriate. That is my goal with our families.

None of this is easy...takes some time to sort it out. You have to come into your own awareness on your own.
Generally my rule of thumb is if it can harm my kids it is BAD. Good basic principle to start with.

 

[California Girl]

school busses don't have seatbelts. just a point of fact. they are not required by law. i never said wearing of seatbelts was a philosophical difference. i just pointed out that we needed to address it. my point would be that there could easily be a thread here, In-laws don't use seatbelts. What would you do, and I'd get people suggesting that i totally never let my kids go anywhere with the inlaws when at the same time i load the kids on the bus every day and there are no seatbelts. that's inconsistent.

lots of people look for fights. i choose mine carefully.

the point is, if you like someone, you will overlook some of these factors. you can make toxic anything you want. if grandpa takes out his teeth and scares the little kids that's toxic.

my kids have a gay uncle. i don't agree with a gay lifestyle but i would no more exclude myself from christmas at his house because of that.

i wouldn't get along with a lot of you because i don't look for problems.

btw, i said my dad drank. he wasn't an alcoholic.

 

[mojophone]

Also, I can see theologically, how some faiths can be SO fundamentally different from others that someone would not want their child, while still young, to be influenced by the "wrong" one.

Ok I gotta ask and am prepared to get shot down in flames. Who can say which religion or belief is the "wrong" one. Haven't any of you noticed that even though the path and beliefs may be really different from each other, they are all still trying to achieve the same goal? They may have different names but they all look pretty much like the same place to me.

Just my 2 cents. Ok ya'll flame away

 

[Luv'sTink]

I agree EVERYONE should wear a seat bealt, (here it comes) BUT, speeding (even when buckled in) is a matter of safety and, potentially, the child's life could be at risk and parents do it ALL the time.

I do not understand no seat belts on buses either. Buses fly down the freeway (speeding) and no has to wear a seat belt

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

My family has more dysfunction that you can shake a stick at. Choosing to keep my child away from some of that was a no brainer. My father was selfish, abusive, and an alcoholic. I was never close to him, so there was NO WAY I was going to expose my son to that madness. My father chose to behave that way, I chose not to associate with him. It is my job as a parent to make sure my child is not exposed to anything dangerous. While I don't think my father would have physically harmed anyone he could absolutely do a number on people psychologically.

DH was an only child and his parents are dead, so I never had in-law drama. My middle sister married into a merry clan of hillbillys, which is fine if you like that sort of thing. I am not speaking to her right now because of issues surrounding our father's estate. She is the poster child for stupid decisions, but she has been that way her whole life. I didn't stop speaking to her until she turned into a greedy shrew and tried to steal assets from my mother and my other sister, who happens to still be a minor. Once the legal stuff is settled maybe I will speak to her again. Maybe not.

I think sometimes the posts here do not reflect the entire history of relationships. Yes, maybe some of them are based soley on "minor" philosophical differences, but I bet what we see is more often the tip of the iceberg.

 

[VSL]

lots of people look for fights. i choose mine carefully.

Yes, well for me, having my children wear seatbelts where there are seatbelts available is something that I see worth fighting for. I guess you don't feel the same way

i wouldn't get along with a lot of you because i don't look for problems.

What an assumption. You might want to think about this:

I think sometimes the posts here do not reflect the entire history of relationships. Yes, maybe some of them are based soley on "minor" philosophical differences, but I bet what we see is more often the tip of the iceberg.

 

[paigevz]

The "experts" claim that the way school buses are made, the children are more likely to be injured by the seatbelt than a crash without a seatbelt, as the bus is so large and the seatbacks so high. Usually if a bus is involved in a crash and you hear about it on the news, the kids have minor injuries unless it falls over.

I don't know what your inlaws drive, Californiagirl, but my mother drove a small sportscar. They were hit head on by a half ton pickup truck. The highway patrol said that due to the force of the accident, if my son had not been in a seatbelt, he would've been thrown forward through the windshield. It's just speculation, but they've seen lots of accidents, and the depth and intensity of the bruising from the seatbelt does show a LOT of force. And he was in the backseat.........if he'd been in the front seat, no doubt he'd have been killed out of seatbelt, and seriously injured (like my mother is) in seatbelt. Suffice it to say, in answer to your question, no I will never ever never let my kids go anywhere no matter how close with anyone who won't seatbelt them. Ever.

 

[kellyg403]

My family definitely puts the fun in dysfunctional. Just the way it is. When my children were younger I did monitor things when around my family alot more than I do now. They are older and understand more about the "real" world. My parents have been marriend for 40 years. Still curse and fight with each other no matter where they are. I never allowed the kids to ride in cars with them because you couldn't get away no matter what. I hated that when I was a kid, my children weren't going to be placed there. I did explain why and most of my family agreed but it did cause problems sometimes. I have a sister that I barely speak too because of things that happened in our childhood and adulthood. I don't agree with some of the things she has done or does and I choose to stay away from the drama. I will speak to her when she calls and do make the effort to call her from time to time to see how the kids are doing. We mix like oil and water. As I get older, I just shake my head and move on.

But, even though I protected them things have changed. I never denied anyone a relationship but limited it to a certain degree. My oldest ds and my dad are closer than you would imagine. They call each other every day. My dad stopped drinking 20 years ago and just is finally starting to be the person he should have been then. I knew what triggered situations in my family and just chose those times to stay away with the kids. Its a hard call. But, their bad choices would not be mine.

Hopefully, I will not make choices that will cause my grandchildren not to see me. Hopefully, my children will tell me when I mess up. Hopefully I will be smart enough to fix it. But I am not perfect so who knows with the varying personalities of my children and their spouses what I will end up doing. I grew up not wearing seatbelts cause cars didn't have them, corporal punishment was the norm etc. I am a seatbelt freak today. I can't remember when I have hit the kids. Sometimes, and this will get me in trouble, we forget the generation we are dealing with and their "normal". Now the problem enters when they don't see what we feel is the "normal" for our children and what we want it to be.

Kelly

 

[LubsPoohBear]

welcome too 2000 plus they new error of Dysfunctional Families don't get me wrong mine is as dysfunctional as it gets

 

[ticktock]

Our shcool district just got new buses and they do have seatbelts, which the kids are supposed to wear. As your buses are replaced the kids will be required to wear seatbelts. Just blew that arguement out of the water, sorry.

I take it that your dad is a happy drinker? Because I can't imagine anyone in their right mind allowing their kids around an abusive drunk. And by the way if your dad drinks enough to be labeled a "drinker" he is an alcoholic according to the shrinks (for whatever thats worth, I don't have alot of faith in phsych.)

I agree that I see ALOT of threads where people SEEM completely selfish and unreasonable about family. Especialy the ones that go "my great aunt millie expects us to take a day away from our vacation to go see her, this is our vacation to spend with our family etc. etc...." Wow. It really blows me away that these people can't take a day out of their precious "family vacation" to go see some sad old shrivilled up woman who has nothing going on in her life.

If you really NEED that much family alone time maybe you should take more time at home to be together. Your kids don't need to be in every extra curricular activity and you don't need to go out with the boys/girls drinking or whatever it is these people do with their extra time. Turn off the TV once in a while and you'll discover you have alot more extra time than you thought.

My Dh has worked a 60-70 hr week at times (and will again in the future) and still managed to spend enough time at home to get on my nerves! He also rarely misses any of Ds's activities or school functions even if he has to use his lunch break for this and doesn't get to eat.

So, to all those people who don't have time for "aunt Millie" I think you need to reasses your priorities. IF you want to make room in your lives you usually can. You just don't WANT to. That's fine. Just don't make excuses. Stand up a say proudly, I'm a selfish B@$!@*D ! I chose to be this way! So die alone and forgotten aunt Millie, we don't care!

OK rant over, sorry. Kinda OT too. I know I'm a pain in the a$$. I'm sure no one will take any time out of their vacations to come see me when I'm old and alone . (though if my future relatives are like the people I see at Disney with 12 year olds having fits, adults cutting other people in line,poolhopping, mug reuseing,smoking in non smoking areas, and all of them 300 pounds over weight(not for health reasons, just cause they can't push away from the table) and on ECVs, then I don't think I'll miss them )

 

[VSL]

I agree that I see ALOT of threads where people SEEM completely selfish and unreasonable about family. Especialy the ones that go "my great aunt millie expects us to take a day away from our vacation to go see her, this is our vacation to spend with our family etc. etc...." Wow. It really blows me away that these people can't take a day out of their precious "family vacation" to go see some sad old shrivilled up woman who has nothing going on in her life.

If you really NEED that much family alone time maybe you should take more time at home to be together. Your kids don't need to be in every extra curricular activity and you don't need to go out with the boys/girls drinking or whatever it is these people do with their extra time. Turn off the TV once in a while and you'll discover you have alot more extra time than you thought.

My Dh has worked a 60-70 hr week at times (and will again in the future) and still managed to spend enough time at home to get on my nerves! He also rarely misses any of Ds's activities or school functions even if he has to use his lunch break for this and doesn't get to eat.

So, to all those people who don't have time for "aunt Millie" I think you need to reasses your priorities. IF you want to make room in your lives you usually can. You just don't WANT to. That's fine. Just don't make excuses. Stand up a say proudly, I'm a selfish B@$!@*D ! I chose to be this way! So die alone and forgotten aunt Millie, we don't care!

In all fairness, there is usually a lot more to those posters' stories than just 'we don't want to see [name] because it's our family holiday'.

 

[Donald - my hero]

In all fairness, there is usually a lot more to those posters' stories than just 'we don't want to see [name] because it's our family holiday'.

URH I was quietly reading this chain. But this one touches my heart deeply. I feel strongly that our immediate family (hubby and kids) needed to establish our OWN holiday rituals. No other reason except how do they learn that family is important in the smaller sense. We do join extended family once our "private" part is over (such as Christmas morning) but that causes strife in Hubby's family -- they drag all of their kids and stockings etc to Grandma's house. (our kids .. how will Santa find us?)

I am not necessarily the most well let's just say quiet person, I speak my mind and that also gets in the way. I feel God gave us children as a GIFT -- our job is to teach them right from wrong and prepare them to live on their own. We will not smother them when it comes time to fly from the nest. We will be here if they fall and need to return to the comfort of home.

Oh side note My inlaws are truly TOXIC to me -- If you read my siggy you will see my personal dragon. They are forever trying to tell me that I just don't pray enough to get better, or that I don't want to. That just hurts me and makes me ill. One Christmas on the way home this tiny little 3 yr old voice from our daughter pipes up from the back seat "Mommy why does Grandpa hate you so much" We have agreed as a family that I only go when I am stable but John takes kids (or at least did when they were younger) on his own. Now that they are older they get to choose if they want to go on visits other than say Christmas or Easter.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I am all for exposing my children to different beliefs. I don't raise them in a bubble and I'm happy to sit around and debate religion with my very vocal brother who is atheist. And we're welcoming of my BIL who is gay. I'd say my in-laws are dysfunctional on at least some level, but they are not harmful, so I'm fine with them. Same with my mom.

However, if we're talking safety, I will err on the side of caution and I don't give a flying fig if I insult a family member. If I found out that a family member was not seatbelting my child, they would not be driving them. This is a life or death issue. If they were driving drunk with my child, same goes. There are some deal breakers. I'm flexible with the "normal dysfunction" and I think it does my kids good to see other families and the different ways that they conduct family life. My kids have told me that they've realized that we're not so bad when they've seen other families.

 

[ticktock]

In all fairness, there is usually a lot more to those posters' stories than just 'we don't want to see [name] because it's our family holiday'.

Sorry, VSL, I can think of at least 10 posts that this was EXACTLY what the poster said. I do see alot of posters on here that SEEM to be very selfish. They seem to only care about their immediate family so aunt Millie, their MIL, or dsis can just go to he!!.

I agree that you shouldn't spend time with "toxic" people. But people who are just annoying to you? I would never leave the house again! Most people are annoying in some way. Hey, all of you out there. There are things you do that drives somebody somewhere up the wall. No one is immune. The ones who think they are so perfect are the ones who are usually the most obnoxious.

 

[ticktock]

URH I was quietly reading this chain. But this one touches my heart deeply. I feel strongly that our immediate family (hubby and kids) needed to establish our OWN holiday rituals. No other reason except how do they learn that family is important in the smaller sense. We do join extended family once our "private" part is over (such as Christmas morning) but that causes strife in Hubby's family -- they drag all of their kids and stockings etc to Grandma's house. (our kids .. how will Santa find us?)

I am not necessarily the most well let's just say quiet person, I speak my mind and that also gets in the way. I feel God gave us children as a GIFT -- our job is to teach them right from wrong and prepare them to live on their own. We will not smother them when it comes time to fly from the nest. We will be here if they fall and need to return to the comfort of home.

Oh side note My inlaws are truly TOXIC to me -- If you read my siggy you will see my personal dragon. They are forever trying to tell me that I just don't pray enough to get better, or that I don't want to. That just hurts me and makes me ill. One Christmas on the way home this tiny little 3 yr old voice from our daughter pipes up from the back seat "Mommy why does Grandpa hate you so much" We have agreed as a family that I only go when I am stable but John takes kids (or at least did when they were younger) on his own. Now that they are older they get to choose if they want to go on visits other than say Christmas or Easter.

Donald I was not referring to your situation AT ALL. I think holidays are important too. Christmas morning is only a few hours, not a 10 day vacation.

I'm so sorry about your inlaws. That is a toxic relationship and I think you are completly intitled to avoid it. I wouldn't go visit them on my 10 day vacation either! I might let dh take the kids. I would spend the day at the GF spa. Good luck dealing with such hate filled people.

 

[VSL]

Sorry, VSL, I can think of at least 10 posts that this was EXACTLY what the poster said. I do see alot of posters on here that SEEM to be very selfish. They seem to only care about their immediate family so aunt Millie, their MIL, or dsis can just go to he!!.

Well the only ones I've ever seen usually have some kind of background reason to them, or just want some private immediate family time like Donald - my hero But I'm willing to accept that you may have seen others that don't.

 

[California Girl]

Our shcool district just got new buses and they do have seatbelts, which the kids are supposed to wear. As your buses are replaced the kids will be required to wear seatbelts. Just blew that arguement out of the water, sorry.

I take it that your dad is a happy drinker? Because I can't imagine anyone in their right mind allowing their kids around an abusive drunk. And by the way if your dad drinks enough to be labeled a "drinker" he is an alcoholic according to the shrinks (for whatever thats worth, I don't have alot of faith in phsych.)

i guess reading posts isn't your strong suit (or spelling either). my father passed away. a happy drinker....i'm not sure what that means exactly. he was a social drinker. he also smoked and died a horrible death from emphysema. the kids watched him deteriorate.

seat belts on school busses must be germain to your area. you won't find them around here, even on new ones.

by the way, as he was dying, he saw a psychiatrist. never mentioned alcoholic. in fact, he had stopped completely for a while, and his doctor suggested he take an occasional drink. but thanks for your diagnosis. i give it about as much weight as the rest of your statements.

 

[Planogirl]

Things are not always so cut and dried. For example, what if it's the relative that decides to remove themselves? What if a "close" family member just suddenly leaves and refuses to let anyone know where they went?

That happened to us and I would categorize that as dysfunctional. That's just one example of a situation that could come up that can't really be dealt with.