DVC's Beach Alligator problems?

[CarolMN]

Carol, have you seen gators at Disney? I cannot believe I haven't! It was a life-altering week in Orlando/Disney this past week- we are sorrowful for the loss of life and manner in which it occurred in both Pulse and VGF beach.

Yes, a rather small one near the BCV. People were feeding it. (As I recall, heard Disney removed it a few days later). FWIW, I do not believe sightings are all that common, but perhaps it depends on where you are and the time of year. I believe they are more active at dusk& at night.

 

[jkevinmcg]

I guess the vacation club is Disney’s second best kept secret; sadly, this is/was their best kept secret! There is no other responsible party; Disney is 100% responsible for this tragedy! They created an enterprise within the wild and did not manage risk properly. They knew these animals were there and yet they never informed anyone visiting of a potential risk. What were they thinking!? If they didn't want to put up signs (we know why), they should have erected underwater fencing around all of their man-made beaches. At the very least, their Chief Risk Office should be fired, if not the entire executive team in Orlando. Did they ever have an internal audit? Did they ever have an audit by local or state authorities? An enterprise of this size, even if they are self-insured, must have had regular audits. How could this have been missed? How could someone at the top think they were properly managing this life-threatening risk? Disney knew there was risk and didn't manage it properly. Do the patrons have a role in managing risk? Absolutely! But for the patrons to personally manage risk, they need to know there is risk. FLAME ON!

 

[jodifla]

I guess the vacation club is Disney’s second best kept secret; sadly, this is/was their best kept secret! There is no other responsible party; Disney is 100% responsible for this tragedy! They created an enterprise within the wild and did not manage risk properly. They knew these animals were there and yet they never informed anyone visiting of a potential risk. What were they thinking!? If they didn't want to put up signs (we know why), they should have erected underwater fencing around all of their man-made beaches. At the very least, their Chief Risk Office should be fired, if not the entire executive team in Orlando. Did they ever have an internal audit? Did they ever have an audit by local or state authorities? An enterprise of this size, even if they are self-insured, must have had regular audits. How could this have been missed? How could someone at the top think they were properly managing this life-threatening risk? Disney knew there was risk and didn't manage it properly. Do the patrons have a role in managing risk? Absolutely! But for the patrons to personally manage risk, they need to know there is risk. FLAME ON!

There are so many things wrong with your post it is hard to know where to start.

 

[Dean]

I guess the vacation club is Disney’s second best kept secret; sadly, this is/was their best kept secret! There is no other responsible party; Disney is 100% responsible for this tragedy! They created an enterprise within the wild and did not manage risk properly. They knew these animals were there and yet they never informed anyone visiting of a potential risk. What were they thinking!? If they didn't want to put up signs (we know why), they should have erected underwater fencing around all of their man-made beaches. At the very least, their Chief Risk Office should be fired, if not the entire executive team in Orlando. Did they ever have an internal audit? Did they ever have an audit by local or state authorities? An enterprise of this size, even if they are self-insured, must have had regular audits. How could this have been missed? How could someone at the top think they were properly managing this life-threatening risk? Disney knew there was risk and didn't manage it properly. Do the patrons have a role in managing risk? Absolutely! But for the patrons to personally manage risk, they need to know there is risk. FLAME ON!

Then don't play in their yard or any other corporate entity. You're going off the grid if you truly hold that philosophy.

 

[keishashadow]

Have you looked in the community section thread about this? Quite a few over there don't think so. I take it as stay out of the water as well. Of course, I also figured everyone knew there were gators in Florida and at Disney too. I just can't comprehend how you wouldn't know that. I believe I learned that in elementary school as well as watching tv.


Feeding wild animals is illegal in the entire US.

The waters of the community board or bay lake? People seem even more divided about this subject, lots of strong emotions. It's a tragedy, an accident, and devastating to the family. It's so sad, but if anything, the publicity and whatever safeguards put in place should help to educate people.

I'm from the UK and it didn't occur to me there could be gators in the water. Plus no swimming over here does not mean don't go in the water. It means there is a current so you can paddle your feet. I wouldn't go in the lake anyway because of bacteria but I don't think people are stupid just because they don't know. We were in Maine and shocked when bears were going through our garbage bins in our motel! We don't have bears and gators in the UK!

Not a personal attack, I've seen many helpful, insightful posts you've made here. Something may have been lost in translation. However, when I travel out of my area (carribean, Mexico, etc.) I make sure to familiarize myself with possible adverse conditions/surroundings, which includes dangerous wildlife.

You are not alone, I've seen people who live in the US south state they know there are gators, just didn't think they had them @ WDW, the happiest place on earth. Pixie dust effect, people get blinded by it after they drive under the welcome sign.

My kids were raised hearing about gators in the waters and reminded every trip. Thought I had the bases covered. Ha, I still vividly recall my oldest DS (early teen at the time) on golf course in Myrtle Beach reaching into pond for an errant 'expensive' golf ball. Not sure who screamed louder when we saw the gator surface & head towards him, me or the Marshal. A lesson almost learned the hard way. My point is even those who know Better can momentarily think "it won't happen to me"...sadly, it's human nature.

I think signage is one thing. I think parents simply dont watch their kids close enough (not talking about these parents). When you have a movie night on a dark beach with Alligators, parents can get absorbed in the movie or with other children. There needs to be Disney folks looking out for risks (drowning as well).

I am still not convinced that building DVC hotel rooms over and on the water is the right move for how DVC packages their products as family. In reality the real risks in Disney probably fall into:

- Heat Stroke
- Heart Attacks
- Falling
- Drowning
- Vehicle crashes
- ....

Unfortunately for Disney, they are going to be paying a pretty penny because of poor signage and supervision at a Disney event.

See Pixie dust effect above, kids easily get over-excited @ WDW. Hard to corral them and I believe many parents relax the rules in place at home, thinking it's a safe environment. Makes me so nervous to see young kids seemingly roaming by themselves @ resorts/parks.

Interesting your comment re the 'real risks' @ WDW. My youngest DS manages a territory there for a medical device. He commented that he was surprised as to the large number of calls to WDW, with majority of calls specifically to the GF. Apparantly, many people over-reach as to their physical endurance in the parks & the resort has a large % of elderly/ill guests.

We're going in Circles. You are not reading a thing I've said. I had no idea there were alligators in the lakes at Disney until 2 days ago. Where I am from, we warn people about the risks when taking part in local attractions. To assume everyone knows everything you do is pretty ignorant. All you need is a sign, a message, even an email when you book, to tell them there are Alligators in the lakes at Disney. I had NO IDEA there were alligators in the lakes at Disney, because it's not on my list of things to look up when planning a trip.

Honestly, so surprised at large number of adults who state they didn't know Gators can be found in any body of water in Florida. Locals joke to look in the bathtub before you hop in, but it's not far off the mark.

The lawyers will insure carefully worded signs will be installed & the fine print on tickets/room reservations will indicate guests accepting the inherent danger of wildlife in their surroundings. There is only so much you can do to protect people, including from themselves. If guests need to be reminded to be alert, then by all means, do so. We all deserve a safe environment in which to play

While they're at it, why not ban umbrellas (I.e. Lightening rods) in the parks? Lots more people harmed/killed each way in Florida by lightening.

I heard a news report today that the fences are only temporary until a permanent solution can be reached.

We can only hope... I hate the fences.

MG

The Great Wall of Disney perhaps? Sigh Only permanent solution would be to drain Bay Lake & put up a parking lot. Yes, I am kidding, the gators would just head back to home base of fort wilderness abandoned water park. Gators roamed this planet for years, they are hearty and part of the Florida landscape.

 

[Don_Air]

You had me agreeing with you until your backhanded comment

While they're at it, why not ban umbrellas (I.e. Lightening rods) in the parks? Lots more people harmed/killed each way in Florida by lightening.

A sign, for us who didn't go to Florida their entire lives. That's all we asked for and its what we got.

 

[keishashadow]

You had me agreeing with you until your backhanded comment


A sign, for us who didn't go to Florida their entire lives. That's all we asked for and its what we got.

You are entitled to your opinion. Not every one thinks a specifically worded sign would've prevented this tragedy, but it's a start toward helping to educate people.

I am serious re lightening strikes. Percentage wise a much bigger danger to guests @ WDW. Florida is flat and has violent storms. I'm sure there are people who live where this isn't common knowledge don't realize they set themselves up for disaster. Look @ the building the next time you are in WDW. You've never seen quite so many lightening rods but in an open area, all bets are off.

 

[Don_Air]

ut it's a start toward helping to educate people.

Yes. That's the purpose. Information is king. You can be shocked all you want, but there are a lot of us who are not from the states, and didn't grow up with this information. Assumptions can't be made when dealing with safety.

 

[Splashboat]

Yes. That's the purpose. Information is king. You can be shocked all you want, but there are a lot of us who are not from the states, and didn't grow up with this information. Assumptions can't be made when dealing with safety.

Okay, here is the problem I have...
Everyone can Monday morning quarterback now that this terrible accident happened. I am quite certain that half of the people saying they wouldn't go near the water if they saw an alligator sign posted are the same people (pre-accident) that would let their kids go dabble at the edge because they didn't "see" an alligator at the moment. The sign would also need to say that alligators are stealth, don't like to be seen, feed at dusk/night, as well as list higher risk times for breeding.....

Disney can't have a sign for every possible tragedy. The place will turn into one of those drug commercials that go on for several minutes stating every possible side effect known to mankind.

Most of us have had lapses in judgement, where, thank God, we didn't pay the ultimate price - be it accidently pulling into traffic, turning away for a moment in public.....The bottom line is this water is filthy. You don't need to be a chemist to tell that. A child could have easily gulped that water ending in tragedy, been bitten by one of those nasty black water snakes....
It was a terrible accident that this family has to live with for the rest of their lives but Disney cannot possibly be responsible for every single bizarre tragedy that might occur.

 

[disneynutz]

People who don't live around alligators my be more sensitive to them but those that do, consider them a nuance, not so much a danger. Obviously Disney considered them a nuance or they would have taken the negative PR hit and installed more descriptive warning signs and relocated all alligators and not just the ones that encroached on guest areas.

Bill

 

[Don_Air]

that would let their kids go dabble at the edge because they didn't "see" an alligator at the moment.

I'm not one of those people. You are basically saying we knew about the gators in a man made lake next to a $700 a night resort. I did not. I'm not lying.

Edit: I agree, there may be some who ignore the rules, but just letting us who do about the risk, is all we asked for.

 

[Splashboat]

I'm not one of those people. You are basically saying we knew about the gators in a man made lake next to a $700 a night resort. I did not. I'm not lying.

Edit: I agree, there may be some who ignore the rules, but just letting us who do about the risk, is all we asked for.

I am not suggesting you are lying and I am not trying to get in an argument. It sounds as though your feeling of Disney's obligation is a warning sign for alligators - that's fine for you. What I am saying is that if this happened, despite signs, plenty of people would be arguing that the sign didn't say alligator's hide, are fast at the water's edge.....

It appears as though Disney is aware that people don't follow signs or that is all they would be doing. Looking for ways to put barriers is a strong indication they are aware signs are not much more than a legal protection.

 

[keishashadow]

Yes. That's the purpose. Information is king. You can be shocked all you want, but there are a lot of us who are not from the states, and didn't grow up with this information. Assumptions can't be made when dealing with safety.

If anything I've learned from this board is people tend to approach life differently but I am still often surprised by things I read posted here.

Disney can only go so far to insulate guests from Florida's environment. Education is absolutely essential (whether it's what I consider to be usual trip planning or a reminder upon checkin/signage).

However, as I stated earlier, people tend to get into the Disney bubble and let their guard down, as it's their happy place and they feel safe...human nature, really.

It is my hope that this awful tragedy will, help prevent a recurrence and make us all be aware of our surroundings when on vacation, anywhere.

 

[Don_Air]

I think just the sign that there are Alligators in an area is enough for any logical person to avoid said area. That's all that needed to happen. Many people STILL can't believe the world isn't familiar with the habitat of every inch of the United States, but here we are. Now that I know there are Gators. I will not be going near the lake.

 

[keishashadow]

I think just the sign that there are Alligators in an area is enough for any logical person to avoid said area. That's all that needed to happen. Many people STILL can't believe the world isn't familiar with the habitat of every inch of the United States, but here we are. Now that I know there are Gators. I will not be going near the lake.

Good idea to be careful re the lake but honestly, the safe rule of thumb is to consider any body of water in Florida (including small ponds & drainage ditches) to possibly have threats.

I posted this video in the signage thread here, but feel it may have educational value (albeit sensational coming from inside edition & swipe @ Poly bungalow guests)

http://www.insideedition.com/headli...loyee-fighting-alligator-near-splash-mountain

 

[Don_Air]

Thank you Keishashadow. That is a good tip.

 

[ScubaCat]

Fortunately alligators aren't allowed into SAB without a valid magicband.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

The waters of the community board or bay lake? People seem even more divided about this subject, lots of strong emotions. It's a tragedy, an accident, and devastating to the family. It's so sad, but if anything, the publicity and whatever safeguards put in place should help to educate people.



Not a personal attack, I've seen many helpful, insightful posts you've made here. Something may have been lost in translation. However, when I travel out of my area (carribean, Mexico, etc.) I make sure to familiarize myself with possible adverse conditions/surroundings, which includes dangerous wildlife.

You are not alone, I've seen people who live in the US south state they know there are gators, just didn't think they had them @ WDW, the happiest place on earth. Pixie dust effect, people get blinded by it after they drive under the welcome sign.

My kids were raised hearing about gators in the waters and reminded every trip. Thought I had the bases covered. Ha, I still vividly recall my oldest DS (early teen at the time) on golf course in Myrtle Beach reaching into pond for an errant 'expensive' golf ball. Not sure who screamed louder when we saw the gator surface & head towards him, me or the Marshal. A lesson almost learned the hard way. My point is even those who know Better can momentarily think "it won't happen to me"...sadly, it's human nature.



See Pixie dust effect above, kids easily get over-excited @ WDW. Hard to corral them and I believe many parents relax the rules in place at home, thinking it's a safe environment. Makes me so nervous to see young kids seemingly roaming by themselves @ resorts/parks.

Interesting your comment re the 'real risks' @ WDW. My youngest DS manages a territory there for a medical device. He commented that he was surprised as to the large number of calls to WDW, with majority of calls specifically to the GF. Apparantly, many people over-reach as to their physical endurance in the parks & the resort has a large % of elderly/ill guests.



Honestly, so surprised at large number of adults who state they didn't know Gators can be found in any body of water in Florida. Locals joke to look in the bathtub before you hop in, but it's not far off the mark.

The lawyers will insure carefully worded signs will be installed & the fine print on tickets/room reservations will indicate guests accepting the inherent danger of wildlife in their surroundings. There is only so much you can do to protect people, including from themselves. If guests need to be reminded to be alert, then by all means, do so. We all deserve a safe environment in which to play

While they're at it, why not ban umbrellas (I.e. Lightening rods) in the parks? Lots more people harmed/killed each way in Florida by lightening.



The Great Wall of Disney perhaps? Sigh Only permanent solution would be to drain Bay Lake & put up a parking lot. Yes, I am kidding, the gators would just head back to home base of fort wilderness abandoned water park. Gators roamed this planet for years, they are hearty and part of the Florida landscape.

I agree I feel very naive now. Whilst I would not have gone in the lake because I did read in my guidebook about the bacteria it did not mention gators but I should have thought about it. I am glad they are putting up signs though for us that travel in ignorance at times. You may have read we leant the hard way not to open your balcony door to let in air! A possum came in. Well it could have been a snake or a gator!

 

[Dean]

Why do I feel like I'm listening to a radio station in Fargo about deer crossing signs.

 

[McCrae]

Having to put signs up to warn people about Alligators in Florida is almost as bad as McDonalds having to put a warning message on Coffee cups that Coffee is hot and could burn you.