Dvc vs Wyndham bonnet creek

[carlbarry]

I heard these comments prior to buying Wyndham, but frankly have never had to actually pay one penny extra except the credit pool charge. That fee is $39, which I am happy to pay to get three full years of use from up to 100% of my annual points!

The use of "reservation transactions" is, as Dean stated, a "pay to play" fee. If you make a normal number of reservations and watch what you are doing, you should never have to pay a fee. But if you are one of those people who ties up MS with constant bookings and cancellations, you will pay for the privilege. If DVC had something like this, I suspect you would see far less speculative booking and probably zero reservation "walking."

I only have 49,000 points. So I am constantly dinged on the "housekeeping points." When I bought in, in 2007, members could transfer housekeeping points to each other for free. Wyndham shortly after put stop to that, along with inter-member points transfers.

 

[Dean]

I only have 49,000 points. So I am constantly dinged on the "housekeeping points." When I bought in, in 2007, members could transfer housekeeping points to each other for free. Wyndham shortly after put stop to that, along with inter-member points transfers.

IMO 49K points puts Wyndham at more expensive than not owning.

 

[JimMIA]

I only have 49,000 points. So I am constantly dinged on the "housekeeping points."

Oh yeah, no wonder! Even with three years of pooled points, that's not enough for a full week in a 1BR at Bonnet Creek during prime season. Without credit pooling, it's only enough for 2-3 nights during the week per year (no Fri/Sat).

And Dean's right -- 49K makes it a really expensive proposition on MFs.

 

[carlbarry]

Oh yeah, no wonder! Even with three years of pooled points, that's not enough for a full week in a 1BR at Bonnet Creek during prime season. Without credit pooling, it's only enough for 2-3 nights during the week per year (no Fri/Sat).

And Dean's right -- 49K makes it a really expensive proposition on MFs.

Well, it is expensive, but because of the resort---Star Island. MF per point is the same whether you own 49K or 490K.
I bought a small TS because my goal was to stay 5 nights off season at Bonnet Creek once a year, for 45,000 points.
But when I got the points, someone suggested I trade to RCI. At that time, 2008, I was: 1. Able to trade 27,000 points to RCI for $130, 2. Able to get from RCI for that trade a 2 BR at Orange Lake for 7 nights, and 3. Able to transfer the remaining 22K points for $5 per thousand to a Wyndham owner in Canada, and thus get back $110.
So back then, it worked great.

 

[Dean]

Well, it is expensive, but because of the resort---Star Island. MF per point is the same whether you own 49K or 490K.
I bought a small TS because my goal was to stay 5 nights off season at Bonnet Creek once a year, for 45,000 points.
But when I got the points, someone suggested I trade to RCI. At that time, 2008, I was: 1. Able to trade 27,000 points to RCI for $130, 2. Able to get from RCI for that trade a 2 BR at Orange Lake for 7 nights, and 3. Able to transfer the remaining 22K points for $5 per thousand to a Wyndham owner in Canada, and thus get back $110.
So back then, it worked great.

That's not how I understand it. The "Program Fee" is variable. IIRC it's a minimum fee of $128 without Plus partners and $147 with Plus partners then so much per point which ever is more. 55 or 57 cents a point until you get to a million IIRC. Plus the extra fees generated by trying to make a small contract work.

 

[JimMIA]

Well, it is expensive, but because of the resort---Star Island. MF per point is the same whether you own 49K or 490K.

Correct...if you frame things narrowly enough.

But your annual costs have two components -- MFs PLUS the Wyndham Program Fee. The basic program fee (without bells and whistles) is $.55 per thousand -- OR $128.00, whichever is larger. So on your 49K points, you are paying $128.00 program fee...which is $2.61 per K...which makes it way more expensive than the $.55 the large contract owner would be paying.

I'm not sure what the MFs are this year, but I saw $5.19 for 2015, so your total would have been that plus $2.61 -- a total fee cost of $7.80/K...which is pretty expensive to me. The hypothetical 490K owner would have paid $5.19+$.55 = $5.74.

 

[carlbarry]

That's not how I understand it. The "Program Fee" is variable. IIRC it's a minimum fee of $128 without Plus partners and $147 with Plus partners then so much per point which ever is more. 55 or 57 cents a point until you get to a million IIRC. Plus the extra fees generated by trying to make a small contract work.

That's not what my annual statement indicates. And larger Star Island contracts that I've seen have the same proportionate MF.
I could be wrong, but that was my impression.

 

[Dean]

That's not what my annual statement indicates. And larger Star Island contracts that I've seen have the same proportionate MF.
I could be wrong, but that was my impression.

Jim will know better than I. Go to your sign on for Wyndham then MyMembership/Financial Services/Club Wyndham Plus assessments then the expansion arrow beside your contract number. Mine says 55¢ per 1000 points. Wyndham (Fairfield) is a mix of many types of properties over the years so it's possible that some will be different. The numbers I quoted were the last I saw but there may be exceptions.

 

[Brian Noble]

I heard these comments prior to buying Wyndham, but frankly have never had to actually pay one penny extra except the credit pool charge.

I also use the credit pool most years. Beyond that, I think I might have paid one transaction fee in ten years.

That's not what my annual statement indicates. And larger Star Island contracts that I've seen have the same proportionate MF.
I could be wrong, but that was my impression.

I think Star Island was originally sold as fixed weeks, and then converted to points. That's different than e.g. Bonnet, which was always sold as UDI. For a converted fixed week, the MFs are based on the size of the unit, and independent of season, but points are granted based on the season---if you own a quiet week, you get fewer points for the same MFs. If you own a Prime week in the same size unit, you get more points, but pay the same MF. The program fee is on top of the MFs, and does vary based on points assigned to the week, but those are relatively small vs. the MF costs. So, converted fixed week resorts generally have both the very best $/K ratios in the system and some of the very worst. In contrast, at UDI resorts both MFs and program fees are based only on the number of points you own.

 

[carlbarry]

I also use the credit pool most years. Beyond that, I think I might have paid one transaction fee in ten years.


I think Star Island was originally sold as fixed weeks, and then converted to points. That's different than e.g. Bonnet, which was always sold as UDI.

Funny you should write that, as although I have points, my log in to Wyndham is in the "weeks" department!
And Dean, as usual, you are correct. I checked my Wyndham account. There is a $128 "program fee," and a $400.93 "annual fee." And: Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $5.57

 

[carlbarry]

Correct...if you frame things narrowly enough.

But your annual costs have two components -- MFs PLUS the Wyndham Program Fee. The basic program fee (without bells and whistles) is $.55 per thousand -- OR $128.00, whichever is larger. So on your 49K points, you are paying $128.00 program fee...which is $2.61 per K...which makes it way more expensive than the $.55 the large contract owner would be paying.

I'm not sure what the MFs are this year, but I saw $5.19 for 2015, so your total would have been that plus $2.61 -- a total fee cost of $7.80/K...which is pretty expensive to me. The hypothetical 490K owner would have paid $5.19+$.55 = $5.74.

Correct. However, when I bought in, the MF was I believe just over $3. So in a mere 7 years it has almost doubled.
But you are correct; amortizing that fee over only 49K is very expensive.
Want to "frame things narrowly"? An elderly couple I know told me that their stay only cost them $56 for 2 weeks. I said how do you figure that? The response was that 2 weeks of MF costs them $56. So I said, but you pay something like $1,300 a year . . . how about the other 50 weeks when your're NOT on vacation. The response? "I see what you're saying, but we don't figure it that way."

 

[Dean]

Funny you should write that, as although I have points, my log in to Wyndham is in the "weeks" department!
And Dean, as usual, you are correct. I checked my Wyndham account. There is a $128 "program fee," and a $400.93 "annual fee." And: Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $5.57

Thanks for the info, that was my understanding but I realize there could have been an exception given the diversity of how Wyndham arrived where they are today. So your total per point costs yearly are in the range of $8.18 not counting any additional housekeeping fees or reservations fees that you might incur trying to make the most of a small contract. That's roughly $3 a point more than you'd pay if you owned a property with lower fees and enough points to get past the minimum program fee both. Not that bad in this situation IMO. But it does illustrate the the importance of picking a low fee property buying in to Wyndham. You're $1.40 a point more than Sevierville. In your case that's only around $70 a year more but it does add up.

Correct. However, when I bought in, the MF was I believe just over $3. So in a mere 7 years it has almost doubled.
But you are correct; amortizing that fee over only 49K is very expensive.
Want to "frame things narrowly"? An elderly couple I know told me that their stay only cost them $56 for 2 weeks. I said how do you figure that? The response was that 2 weeks of MF costs them $56. So I said, but you pay something like $1,300 a year . . . how about the other 50 weeks when your're NOT on vacation. The response? "I see what you're saying, but we don't figure it that way."

Reminds me of DVC members using points for cash type exchanges or counting their costs as just maint fees ignoring the buy in.

 

[carlbarry]

Thanks for the info, that was my understanding but I realize there could have been an exception given the diversity of how Wyndham arrived where they are today. So your total per point costs yearly are in the range of $8.18 not counting any additional housekeeping fees or reservations fees that you might incur trying to make the most of a small contract. That's roughly $3 a point more than you'd pay if you owned a property with lower fees and enough points to get past the minimum program fee both. Not that bad in this situation IMO. But it does illustrate the the importance of picking a low fee property buying in to Wyndham. You're $1.40 a point more than Sevierville. In your case that's only around $70 a year more but it does add up.

I had been given a gift from the Wyndham/Cendant defunct "Get Up and Go" program, for a 4 night stay in Star Island (my first time in Orlando). I got suckered into a TS presentation at Bonnet Creek. I liked Orlando, and decided my goal would be a Sunday-Friday vacation every year. So I looked for a small TS. I wasn't that savvy, and was looking at Bonnet Creek, but that was about $1200 for a small contact at that time, while Star Island was $100. So that's how I wound up there. Now I know--buy where the MF is lowest.
Oh, by the way: most of Star Island is still owned by the original developer, Hilly Meyers. That part is still weeks (but not Wyndham), and the MF is astronomical.

 

[Dean]

I had been given a gift from the Wyndham/Cendant defunct "Get Up and Go" program, for a 4 night stay in Star Island (my first time in Orlando). I got suckered into a TS presentation at Bonnet Creek. I liked Orlando, and decided my goal would be a Sunday-Friday vacation every year. So I looked for a small TS. I wasn't that savvy, and was looking at Bonnet Creek, but that was about $1200 for a small contact at that time, while Star Island was $100. So that's how I wound up there. Now I know--buy where the MF is lowest.
Oh, by the way: most of Star Island is still owned by the original developer, Hilly Meyers. That part is still weeks (but not Wyndham), and the MF is astronomical.

The "best choice" with timeshares will evolve over time. All one can do is make the best choice today and an educated guess for the future. A common mistake with Wyndham, IMO, is to put too much emphasis on the upfront price and get a poor resort choice in terms of home resort or fees.

 

[JimMIA]

Want to "frame things narrowly"? An elderly couple I know told me that their stay only cost them $56 for 2 weeks. I said how do you figure that? The response was that 2 weeks of MF costs them $56. So I said, but you pay something like $1,300 a year . . . how about the other 50 weeks when your're NOT on vacation. The response? "I see what you're saying, but we don't figure it that way."

Love that story! I get that kind of logic every day at home, but I don't dare identify which of my ladies uses it!

 

[Brian Noble]

I don't dare identify which of my ladies uses it!

You may have already said too much.

 

[davidl81]

We are looking at maybe doing WBC this summer. We own at SSR and AVK but I am out of 2016 points and I am trying to not borrow points for once (lol). I can rent points and stay at SSR (or actually I have seen a bunch of deal on ebay through brokers where I can rent a 1BD at SSR for a week for +/- $1300 with a $190 resort fee due at check in. Cost wise WBC is a little cheaper, plus I can get a bigger room. The big difference I guess is if we drive or not. If we fly in (we live in Houston so we can drive but it is a haul) SSR becomes more appealing due to DME, but if we drive then does anyone see a reason why SSR would be better than WBC. Also if we fly what would be the best option to kid the family form the airport to WBC? We could rent a car, but then I have to bring two car seats and go through that whole mess. Is there some car service that anyone has had good luck with getting to WBC with kids?

 

[zavandor]

We are looking at maybe doing WBC this summer. We own at SSR and AVK but I am out of 2016 points and I am trying to not borrow points for once (lol). I can rent points and stay at SSR (or actually I have seen a bunch of deal on ebay through brokers where I can rent a 1BD at SSR for a week for +/- $1300 with a $190 resort fee due at check in.

Be very cautious about this. It looks like this is a rental of an RCI exchange week. That is explicitly forbidden by RCI and if they find out they may cancel the stay without warning. I don't think it ever happened with DVC, but it's not something I would like to risk.

 

[ziravan]

We are looking at maybe doing WBC this summer. We own at SSR and AVK but I am out of 2016 points and I am trying to not borrow points for once (lol). I can rent points and stay at SSR (or actually I have seen a bunch of deal on ebay through brokers where I can rent a 1BD at SSR for a week for +/- $1300 with a $190 resort fee due at check in. Cost wise WBC is a little cheaper, plus I can get a bigger room. The big difference I guess is if we drive or not. If we fly in (we live in Houston so we can drive but it is a haul) SSR becomes more appealing due to DME, but if we drive then does anyone see a reason why SSR would be better than WBC. Also if we fly what would be the best option to kid the family form the airport to WBC? We could rent a car, but then I have to bring two car seats and go through that whole mess. Is there some car service that anyone has had good luck with getting to WBC with kids?

If you go to WBC, you'll need a car. It cost too much to take their shuttle especially with family.

Also, if someone doesn't have an annual pass, you'll pay for parking at WDW and that can get expensive. Expensive enough to consider buying at least one AP instead of regular tix to get that benefit.

Disney makes it easy to be a prisoner of the mouse because they don't want your dollars to stray elsewhere. That doesn't work staying off property even somewhere close like WBC.

We love Bonnet Creek but it's a car trip or rental.

As Wyndham owners from just a bit north of you, in B/CS, when we drive, we also book a room at one of Wyndham's 5 or so Destin resorts and add an ocean day layover to our drive.

10 hrs to Destin or so. Leave early early, get there early afternoon, beach, dinner, sleep (use W/D in room to clean up beach clothes), up early next morning and WDW is 6.5 hrs away. If we leave Destin by 9ish, it's enough time to hit 3 FPs and do fireworks at a park for evening hours.

 

[BillPA]

Just remember, there's staying at Disney's and everything else. Good luck and have a good trip.