DVC Ticket Price Complaint - Disneyland

[DisneyDad61]

Good morning -
I wanted to reach out to all of you to see if anyone feels the same way that I do. This is pertaining to the ticket pricing (or lack thereof) for DVC members staying at Disneyland (Grand Californian Resort) on points.
I have sent an email to DVC Member Services concerning the only ticket discount available to go to this 2 park resort is a $20.00 discount off there Annual Pass. As we all know, we have a relatively modest discount at WDW (Approx. $160.00) and, of course, as we know it is with the Annual Pass. Now this makes decent sense to me due to the size and scope of the Florida park.
Now, for us that do not live in the immediate vicinity of Anaheim and who travel to Disneyland and stay at the GCV (on points), I was very dissapointed that there was not some type of DVC discount for multi-day passes, etc in that this is only a 2 park resort. Even the DL AP is almost as expensive as a WDW Pass. (DL AP = $500.00 w/ 50 block-out days - DL PAP = $670.00 w/ no block-out dates). DL you dont even get a break on renewals either.
In that Southern CA. residents do get a discount off ticket prices, I was curious why DVC has not made an arrangement for ticket discounts for those of us that stay at GCV on points during our stay.
Basicallly I am just pretty disappointed that there has not been more of a concern or comment regarding this.
Thanks

 

[AmyB2006]

Never been out there nor planned to anytime soon. But that is interesting information.

So their equivalent of a FL Seasonal Pass with blockout dates is $500.00??

 

[Breyean]

I have had a few pretty long conversations with DVC Member Satisfaction about this topic as we frequent DLR and own at VGC.

What I was told was DVC has to negotiate for any discounts they receive from other operating departments at Disney. Since DVC has a big presence at WDW, the discount on APs they can negotiate is pretty good, and last year it was very good.

However, DVC is NOT big in DLR, so they don't have the clout to get any substantial discounts.

I asked why then doesn't DVC expand at DLR since obviously VGC has been successful. More DVC rooms = more DVC visits = more DVC discounts based on the above explanation.

They are still evaluating how DVC is doing at DLR, was the response!

So, I asked, how about a discount on a length of stay ticket at DLR? That way they may even get more people to spend more time at the parks since being at DLR isn't like being isolated at WDW. LA is close by with lots to do.

Same answer as with the AP question - DVC isn't big enough at DLR to warrant ticket discounts.

Call them. Try hitting your head against a wall. Same result in the end.

 

[Reddog1134]

However, DVC is NOT big in DLR, so they don't have the clout to get any substantial discounts.

While I understand the reasoning behind this, on the flip side, if DVC is NOT popular at DLR then they wouldn't be losing much money by offering a discount, would they?

 

[Chuck S]

Remember that DVC and the Disney Parks are two completely separate entities, and that any discount can change or disappear at any time. Land is very, very expensive in Southern California..that is surely one reason DVC has not been actively expanding in that area.

The number of California based villas is small, so while Disneyland would not lose much $ offering a better discount, there is also no pressing reason for them to do so. In their eyes, why discount when they don't have to do so? And while there are a lot of other entertainment venues in So. Cal. they are just as pricey at Disneyland, and have no major local draw, except for Knott's. Sea World is a several hour drive away, Universal Studios is much further away from Disneyland than it is in Florida. Most of the minor local tourist attractions in California closed because the land was worth more than the income from the attractions. The alligator farm that was in Buena Park (used to be across La Palma from Knott's), Japanese Deer Park/Enchanted Village are all gone. No trace remains.

DVC Guests at Disneyland do not often have week long stays, usually only staying long enough to see Disneyland and maybe Knott's. The rooms are always filled with fresh guests staying there to see Disneyland, they don't use DVC as a "base" for seeing many other attractions, so Disneyland doesn't have to lure them to keep their $ onsite.

It really is the size of WDW and the number of DVC units, and the extended stays at WDW that make it worthwhile for those parks to offer decent discounts to keep members from straying off property. Remember that investment houses and fund managers are seeking the best ROI, that is all that matters to the business world these days.

 

[DebbieB]

VGC sold out pretty quick and it's hard to get in there at 7 months. From what I've heard, they have long waitlists for direct point purchases. Rumor was when they built the new wing at GC, the regular hotel rooms were built in a way to make an easy conversion to DVC if they chose that route. There's also the mystery of why the hotel rooms in the new wing are included in the DVC dues budget at VGC.

I always buy the seasonal DL AP because my trips are usually during non-blackout times and I plan trips to get at least 2 trips out of one.

 

[luckyman_apd]

The simplest answer of all is they don't have to do anything. Even in FL. They have your money as a DVC owner already. You bought the points, and have committed yourself to years of Vacations there. I'm sure the largest majority of buyers bought with the intention of future trips to the parks. Therefore, they have you already. They don't NEED to give you anything.

Now the theory on the Discounted PAP was to boost park attendance for those that have vacationed without going to the parks. The AP Discount is to entice those to spend more time in the parks while vacationing in the their DVC villa.

And while DVC may be wildly successful in the rooms they have their in california, 8 full resorts vs 72 rooms is big difference is park attendance. They have NO incentive to offer us Florida visitors a discount to come to California. Keeping us in Florida put the money in the same Disney parks pocket as California.

Lastly, Carsland has been a HUGE success out there, and is still very popular. 2012 park attendance for CA park was up almost 25% compared to 2011, so I'm sure they are going to ride out it's popularity without giving out discounts.

 

[doctornick]

On the flip side, the DVC perks at DL are actually pretty good compared to WDW -- most every restaurant on property has a DVC discount and many of the shopping options do as well.

 

[DisneyDad61]

Thanks for all the responses and all of you have made very valid and thought compelling responses.
I guess, for me (stupid me), I just thought that as this "perk" that is always mentioned here - that for spending 10, 15 20k on your DVC membership (or more $$) plus our Annual Dues, that DL, like WDW, would offer you a "perk" to maybe stay a few days longer (and consequently spend more money) if they were to just give a discount on the ticket prices.
If $$ is the driving force here, from everything I have read, I would think that with the six sigma classes, projections, daily spend on the GC guests that DL could really see a "benefit" to having the guests stay longer at the park. The best way, give them a perk to stay longer.
All-in-all, I was just surprised that a $20 discount on a pass that is not good for the whole year is pretty cheap. All your comments taken and appreciated, I just feel that DL could step up to the plate a little more for those of us that spend a pretty decent amount of money to be a DVC member. All else aside, it is disappointing to me. Thats all
Thanks for your comments..............

 

[Sammie]

As stated DVC and Disney Parks, and even further to Disney Ticket division, Food and Beverage, Merchandise, all operate on separate budgets and each wanting to save the most money possible by not giving anything away.

You have to almost think of them as small individual companies trying to do business with each other.

Our Dues are not a money generating revenue for DVC, and certainly tickets, merchandise and food, they get none of that at all.

So personally considering what they have to go up against to get any perks or special tickets, I feel they have done very well.

I knew when I bought, that I bought a room and nothing else. The rest is just nice if I get it, but I never expect it.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

As stated DVC and Disney Parks, and even further to Disney Ticket division, Food and Beverage, Merchandise, all operate on separate budgets and each wanting to save the most money possible by not giving anything away.

You have to almost think of them as small individual companies trying to do business with each other.

Our Dues are not a money generating revenue for DVC, and certainly tickets, merchandise and food, they get none of that at all.

So personally considering what they have to go up against to get any perks or special tickets, I feel they have done very well.

I knew when I bought, that I bought a room and nothing else. The rest is just nice if I get it, but I never expect it.

Not sure I totally agree with that assessment. As has been inferred, DVC, likewise; brings many guests (in mass numbers) to the table for the discount offerings from Parks and Shows and Food and Beverage.

While I have no insider information, my bet would be that this "kickback" (For lack of a better way of saying it. Not inferring anything illegal or not totally on the up and up.) runs both ways.

I bet not only do we get the discount based on the sheer numbers DVD brings to the table, but I bet they get some pennies on the dollar kick back for everything stamped "DVC Owner" too, including, but not limited to, Parks, F&B, etc.

Notice that I intentionally said DVD. DVC isn't even in play here. DVD brings the volume to the table and totes the big stick. The big stick generally gets a lot of attention. Who else, en masse, brings the sheer numbers of guests to the parks that compare to DVD? Nobody, would be my guess. By a W-I-D-E margin. There ya go.

 

[Sammie]

Not sure I totally agree with that assessment. As has been inferred, DVC, likewise; brings many guests (in mass numbers) to the table for the discount offerings from Parks and Shows and Food and Beverage.

While I have no insider information, my bet would be that this "kickback" (For lack of a better way of saying it. Not inferring anything illegal or not totally on the up and up.) runs both ways.

I bet not only do we get the discount based on the sheer numbers DVD brings to the table, but I bet they get some pennies on the dollar kick back for everything stamped "DVC Owner" too, including, but not limited to, Parks, F&B, etc.

Notice that I intentionally said DVD. DVC isn't even in play here. DVD brings the volume to the table and totes the big stick. The big stick generally gets a lot of attention. Who else, en masse, brings the sheer numbers of guests to the parks that compare to DVD? Nobody, would be my guess. By a W-I-D-E margin. There ya go.

Certainly DVC uses those numbers to bargain with, but they do not receive a percentage of ticket sales or food, etc.

Sales is the only revenue generated for DVC/DVD. And while DVC members represent a large group, where do you stop, I mean guests in general would be larger, Annual Passholders, Florida residents could be larger, we simply do not know.

 

[Breyean]

I had some suggest that the VERY large increase in the AP price a couple of years ago was to try to reduce the number of APs being used at DLR. There are many many of these, at different price points with varying black out dates since DLR is more of a "neighborhood" park than WDW, if that makes sense.

So if true, and who knows, they might have just raised the prices because they COULD given the popularity of Carsland, then they have no incentive whatsoever to offer special deals to DVC members.

I'm actually surprised they offer discount tickets tied to events, like some races and Gay Days.

 

[Lynne M]

Thanks for all the responses and all of you have made very valid and thought compelling responses.
I guess, for me (stupid me), I just thought that as this "perk" that is always mentioned here - that for spending 10, 15 20k on your DVC membership (or more $$) plus our Annual Dues, that DL, like WDW, would offer you a "perk" to maybe stay a few days longer (and consequently spend more money) if they were to just give a discount on the ticket prices.
If $$ is the driving force here, from everything I have read, I would think that with the six sigma classes, projections, daily spend on the GC guests that DL could really see a "benefit" to having the guests stay longer at the park. The best way, give them a perk to stay longer.
All-in-all, I was just surprised that a $20 discount on a pass that is not good for the whole year is pretty cheap. All your comments taken and appreciated, I just feel that DL could step up to the plate a little more for those of us that spend a pretty decent amount of money to be a DVC member. All else aside, it is disappointing to me. Thats all
Thanks for your comments..............

Others have mentioned that there's no single 'Disney' - there are two entities in play here. Disney Vacation Development, which exists to sell timeshares, and Disney Parks, which operates the theme parks. Each has their own revenue targets, and each is judged separately on how much revenue they bring in.

That 10K, 15k, 20K, you gave Disney Vacation Development? Disney Parks saw none of that. Not a dime. Your purchase of DVC didn't help them hit their targets in any way.

So, the fact that DL offers any discount at all means one of two things. 1) Their number-crunching has shown them that DVC members spend a bit more in the parks if they get a discount. Or, 2) The discount is a result of the usual corporate culture of 'play nice with the other divisions', and they figure a token $20 to the few AP holders who own DVC won't kill their balance sheet, and will allow them to look like they're playing the game.

Companies (and divisions of companies) give discounts because it benefits them to do so, not because it benefits the customer. If those two objectives happen to meet, it's more or less coincidence.

The bottom line is, the contract you signed with DVD states that perks and discounts 'are not part of your vacation ownership'. Freely translated that means 'your 10K - 20K buys you what's stated in the contract, and don't expect any other goodies. If you happen to get any, consider it a bonus. '

I know that sounds cold and clinical, but a DVC purchase is a business agreement, nothing more. Of course, an additional ticket discount would be lovely, and i sure wouldn't turn it down, but expecting additional benefits that aren't in the contract is only going to lead to disappointment.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Others have mentioned that there's no single 'Disney' - there are two entities in play here. Disney Vacation Development, which exists to sell timeshares, and Disney Parks, which operates the theme parks. Each has their own revenue targets, and each is judged separately on how much revenue they bring in.

That 10K, 15k, 20K, you gave Disney Vacation Development? Disney Parks saw none of that. Not a dime. Your purchase of DVC didn't help them hit their targets in any way.

So, the fact that DL offers any discount at all means one of two things. 1) Their number-crunching has shown them that DVC members spend a bit more in the parks if they get a discount. Or, 2) The discount is a result of the usual corporate culture of 'play nice with the other divisions', and they figure a token $20 to the few AP holders who own DVC won't kill their balance sheet, and will allow them to look like they're playing the game.

Companies (and divisions of companies) give discounts because it benefits them to do so, not because it benefits the customer. If those two objectives happen to meet, it's more or less coincidence.

The bottom line is, the contract you signed with DVD states that perks and discounts 'are not part of your vacation ownership'. Freely translated that means 'your 10K - 20K buys you what's stated in the contract, and don't expect any other goodies. If you happen to get any, consider it a bonus. '

I know that sounds cold and clinical, but a DVC purchase is a business agreement, nothing more. Of course, an additional ticket discount would be lovely, and i sure wouldn't turn it down, but expecting additional benefits that aren't in the contract is only going to lead to disappointment.

And that car I just bought didn't put a dime into Exxon's pockets either.

Actually, that analogy would be spot-on if it weren't for the fact that there is an incestual relationship between the Disney entities, whether we acknowledge it or not. I consider Disney to be much more like the Borg than separate companies.

 

[tjkraz]

I guess, for me (stupid me), I just thought that as this "perk" that is always mentioned here - that for spending 10, 15 20k on your DVC membership (or more $$) plus our Annual Dues, that DL, like WDW, would offer you a "perk" to maybe stay a few days longer (and consequently spend more money) if they were to just give a discount on the ticket prices.

Unfortunately Disney rarely gives perks or discounts as any sort of a "thank you" gift...even to people who spent $20k on DVC points. There usually has to be some financial justification for the discount. And as others point out, there's not much reason to give park admission discounts to the small number of DVC owners staying at DL.

If $$ is the driving force here, from everything I have read, I would think that with the six sigma classes, projections, daily spend on the GC guests that DL could really see a "benefit" to having the guests stay longer at the park. The best way, give them a perk to stay longer.

If Disney determined that lower-priced park admission would lead to an increase in food and souvenir sales, they would lower the admission price. Not just for DVC owners but for everyone.

It's somewhat natural to think "if Disney charged me less for ____ I'd spend more for ___", but in the real world I doubt it often works in their favor. Imagine that Disney did give you $100 (per person) off the price of park admission. Assuming there are at least 2 people in your family, can you honestly say that you would return that $200 to Disney in the form of ADDITIONAL food & merchandise purchases?

Really you'd have to spend more than the $200 to cover it. If Disney gives you a $200 ticket discount, that's $200 in profit lost. You would have to add another $200 to their bottom line to cover the discount. That may actually equate to $400-500 worth of added purchases--on top of what you would have otherwise spent with no ticket discount.

 

[dmunsil]

Our Dues are not a money generating revenue for DVC

Our dues generate revenue for DVC and Disney, multiple ways.

Right off the bat DVC gets a 12% "management fee" by contract. The Buena Vista Trading Company, which handles all the reservations and exchanges gets paid by taking a cut of the revenue from room nights that are booked for cash. They get paid, by contract, their actual costs plus 5%, and the way I read the declaration I think they may also get any overage if they get an average of, say, $13/point via cash booking but only need to pay DCL $9/point. That's all revenue for Disney.

Then on top of that, DVC doesn't make money on line items like housekeeping, maintenance, and front desk, but The Walt Disney Company almost certainly does. The condominium declaration says that DVC and the condo association pass along the costs for these items to the members, but it doesn't say that the provider of the services needs to provide them at cost. In this case, the provider of the services is Walt Disney Parks, and they can charge whatever the market will bear.

Disney is by no means the only timeshare company that does this. All the big timeshare companies make money on dues. The other timeshares just make less money on dues because their timeshares aren't as popular and have lower perceived value.

 

[Sammie]

Our dues generate revenue for DVC and Disney, multiple ways.

Right off the bat DVC gets a 12% "management fee" by contract. The Buena Vista Trading Company, which handles all the reservations and exchanges gets paid by taking a cut of the revenue from room nights that are booked for cash. They get paid, by contract, their actual costs plus 5%, and the way I read the declaration I think they may also get any overage if they get an average of, say, $13/point via cash booking but only need to pay DCL $9/point. That's all revenue for Disney.

Then on top of that, DVC doesn't make money on line items like housekeeping, maintenance, and front desk, but The Walt Disney Company almost certainly does. The condominium declaration says that DVC and the condo association pass along the costs for these items to the members, but it doesn't say that the provider of the services needs to provide them at cost. In this case, the provider of the services is Walt Disney Parks, and they can charge whatever the market will bear.

Disney is by no means the only timeshare company that does this. All the big timeshare companies make money on dues. The other timeshares just make less money on dues because their timeshares aren't as popular and have lower perceived value.

I guess generator was the wrong term more like profit maker.

 

[dmunsil]

I guess generator was the wrong term more like profit maker.

My point is that they make profit on dues. If Disney takes in more money from dues than the actual costs in labor, utilities, and materials that it costs them, that's profit. And they pretty clearly take in more money than it costs them to run the resorts.

 

[bumbershoot]

...I was very dissapointed that there was not some type of DVC discount for multi-day passes, etc in that this is only a 2 park resort. Even the DL AP is almost as expensive as a WDW Pass. (DL AP = $500.00 w/ 50 block-out days - DL PAP = $670.00 w/ no block-out dates). DL you dont even get a break on renewals either.
In that Southern CA. residents do get a discount off ticket prices, I was curious why DVC has not made an arrangement for ticket discounts for those of us that stay at GCV on points during our stay.

Those in So Cal don't really get a discount, they get access to two different passes. Just like Florida residents get access to season passes, SoCal residents get two other, very blocked-out, annual passes that people outside of certain zip codes don't get. But if a SoCal person wants to buy a Deluxe or Premium pass, they get to pay the whole amount. Now any Californian can do a payment plan, but those north of a certain zip code don't get the lower two APs.

I'd love it if there were more of a discount, but it's not something I'm going to complain about. I prefer to be happy for the extras we get.

And at Disneyland, DVC gets you more discounts than at WDW, and just having the AP gets you way more discounts than you get with an AP at WDW. I'm totally happy about THAT.


But remember, there are plenty of DVC owners who don't own, and don't stay, at the Grand. There's one family of owners who feel the Grand is the least interesting onsite hotel at disneyland, and who would much rather stay entirely offsite than deal with the GCH again! (especially since walking from offsite CAN be closer depending on where your room would have been at the Grand! was literally our situation the one time we used points to stay on the hotel side...same distance to center of the esplanade from our room as though we were walking from the sidewalk outside HoJos) So where does your argument go with that? I might stay OFFsite, not use our points in Anaheim at all, but as a DVC family we might get hefty discounts off the APs?