DVC tax system error

[pineapplepalms]

I didn’t get any emails, but I just checked and we’re getting a $139.42 credit!

 

[JETSDAD]

Thanks @Bing Showei for going to bat on this one. I'd offer to buy us each a Dole Whip with my rebate but I'll only be getting back enough to buy one so I guess we'll have to share. Cheers!

 

[New Mouse]

Wow nice to see how quickly they caught this error. 2014-2019!!!!! Someone is asleep behind the wheel.

Correction...wheel house...titanic

 

[Henwen88]

Wow nice to see how quickly they caught this error. 2014-2019!!!!! Someone is asleep behind the wheel.

So the really sad thing is that I don't think they 'caught' it so much as some awesome members of this board brought iron clad evidence of tomfoolery in the accounting department, and they could no longer continue to operate with impunity.

Same as the 2020 points debacle (and hopefully the 2022 sooooon also).

We need to continue to advocate for our memberships, as I don't think Disney's definition of fiduciary duty is the same as most of ours.

edit - next Dole Whip is on me

 

[lundve]

We got $8.15

It’s better then nothing.

 

[Bobb_o]

I feel bad for those who bought in 2014 and then sold before the end of 2019.

 

[Minniemoo15]

I didn’t get an email but checked and got back $114! Great news.

I find it strange though, my parents who bought the exact same number of points at the same time as us, same home resort, even same seller - are getting a $64 credit. I would think it should be the same amount?

 

[CraigInPA]

No email, but I'm getting $18.98.

 

[DL1WDW2]

Yep I’m $11 richer... that won’t buy very much at Disney .
? Better than nothing ?
Feeling lucky so I bought a lottery ticket !
And the first thing I would buy you ask? More DVC!

 

[KPeterso]

Got a second email for my other contract bought during that time and am getting $18.08 back. So between my 2 contracts, a little less than $20. Something is better than nothing.

 

[Matty B13]

I got emails for all my resale contracts, but not my direct which I bought in 2018 I believe.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I got emails for all my resale contracts, but not my direct which I bought in 2018 I believe.

Direct was not affected. It is just those who purchased resale contracts during that timeframe.

 

[supersnoop]

I've got four resales contracts purchased in that timeframe and no notice or credit on my account.

 

[Bing Showei]

This was the result of a back and forth with Disney that spanned several months starting late last year. I was informed back in March that this credit would be issued to the membership, but that Disney needed time to dot all their i's and cross all their t's. They also wanted time to message this properly; the same request received for the privately shared plans to address the 2022 point chart issues.

I respected that request to allow Disney time to share with the membership what was ultimately decided and how it was decided, but sadly, the emails sent out (which ironically, I have yet to receive myself) was worded as such that I feel it necessary to address my continued misgivings with how seriously Disney is taking its obligation to act on the membership's behalf now that Disney has finalized the messaging.

First and foremost, the small dollar amounts that people are being refunded should be secondary to the fact that these refunds had to happen at all. This is the bigger story that is being buried and downplayed.

Disney's timeshare management company is supposed to be our first line of defense. They have the fiduciary obligation to act in our best interest as outlined by Florida State law. But the reality is that while they are legal, separate entities/divisions, there is significant overlap between the Management Company and the Developer. This is problematic because the singular objective of the developer is to drive profits. This is far more serious a conflict of interest than most of us would want to acknowledge, because doing so is a bit of buzzkill when we're trying to enjoy the "Club" feels.

But we've seen it happen over and over that Disney's timeshare division will do something that they need to backpedal on because of the simple fact that they got caught doing it by someone else; not because they had some reflective moment of clarity and that they saw the error in their ways.

Let’s be clear about this. This was not an “error.” An error would’ve been caught by CMs when the first resale owners reached out about not getting the tax credits back in 2014. An error would’ve been identified by the accountants who manages the Association’s financials and prepare the annual statements. An error would’ve caught by the “independent” auditors who review those financial statements, PricewaterhouseCoopers (interestingly, the same folks who gave an early start to the career of Jim Lewis and his Hawaiian adventures in accounting).

When I called Disney in 2017 about my first resale contract and the tax overpayment on the contract I was told: “You do not get the money since you didn’t pay it.” So I asked if the previous owner got the money. “Previous owner doesn’t get the money because they no longer have a real estate interest.” I was new to timeshares and assumed this to be true and moved on. In 2020, I called and was told the EXACT same thing again, almost verbatim.

This was not an error. This was policy that was disseminated through the ranks over several years.

It was a policy that was decided by someone at a higher pay grade than the frontline cast members I spoke to who were just parroting what the training told them to say.

This is just the latest incident that gives me pause about the role of the Management Company. This is also why I take issue when some members on these boards decide to defend Disney in their actions time after time after time. Some will use euphemisms like "sloppy" to describe the 2022 point charts, ignoring the manufactured seasonal situation around a shifting holiday. Take a look at the 2019 thread that @Zavandor started on suing Disney for the 2020 point charts, long-time members insisted that those complaining don’t know better; that Disney has the real data; that 1BRs may in fact be higher in demand than 2BRs. And it is often repeated that Disney would never knowingly do something they could be sued for, or that they have lawyers and accountants who look over all of these things.

At every step, Disney is afforded the benefit of the doubt. That if they make a “mistake” that those who are responsible will be held accountable.

At one point historically, this may have been true of Disney, and more specifically the 1992-2011 version of the Disney timeshare. But Disney itself is a different company today, and the timeshare product they sell 30 years into its inception is a different product. The timeshare product is still a valuable one for a lot of families, mine included, but the faith and trust some members may have been willing to put in Disney to do the right thing may be misguided today, as the company has clearly evolved. As members, we should evolve with it.

 

[princesscinderella]

This was the result of a back and forth with Disney that spanned several months starting late last year. I was informed back in March that this credit would be issued to the membership, but that Disney needed time to dot all their i's and cross all their t's. They also wanted time to message this properly; the same request received for the privately shared plans to address the 2022 point chart issues.

I respected that request to allow Disney time to share with the membership what was ultimately decided and how it was decided, but sadly, the emails sent out (which ironically, I have yet to receive myself) was worded as such that I feel it necessary to address my continued misgivings with how seriously Disney is taking its obligation to act on the membership's behalf now that Disney has finalized the messaging.

First and foremost, the small dollar amounts that people are being refunded should be secondary to the fact that these refunds had to happen at all. This is the bigger story that is being buried and downplayed.

Disney's timeshare management company is supposed to be our first line of defense. They have the fiduciary obligation to act in our best interest as outlined by Florida State law. But the reality is that while they are legal, separate entities/divisions, there is significant overlap between the Management Company and the Developer. This is problematic because the singular objective of the developer is to drive profits. This is far more serious a conflict of interest than most of us would want to acknowledge, because doing so is a bit of buzzkill when we're trying to enjoy the "Club" feels.

But we've seen it happen over and over that Disney's timeshare division will do something that they need to backpedal on because of the simple fact that they got caught doing it by someone else; not because they had some reflective moment of clarity and that they saw the error in their ways.

Let’s be clear about this. This was not an “error.” An error would’ve been caught by CMs when the first resale owners reached out about not getting the tax credits back in 2014. An error would’ve been identified by the accountants who manages the Association’s financials and prepare the annual statements. An error would’ve caught by the “independent” auditors who review those financial statements, PricewaterhouseCoopers (interestingly, the same folks who gave an early start to the career of Jim Lewis and his Hawaiian adventures in accounting).

When I called Disney in 2017 about my first resale contract and the tax overpayment on the contract I was told: “You do not get the money since you didn’t pay it.” So I asked if the previous owner got the money. “Previous owner doesn’t get the money because they no longer have a real estate interest.” I was new to timeshares and assumed this to be true and moved on. In 2020, I called and was told the EXACT same thing again, almost verbatim.

This was not an error. This was policy that was disseminated through the ranks over several years.

It was a policy that was decided by someone at a higher pay grade than the frontline cast members I spoke to who were just parroting what the training told them to say.

This is just the latest incident that gives me pause about the role of the Management Company. This is also why I take issue when some members on these boards decide to defend Disney in their actions time after time after time. Some will use euphemisms like "sloppy" to describe the 2022 point charts, ignoring the manufactured seasonal situation around a shifting holiday. Take a look at the 2019 thread that @Zavandor started on suing Disney for the 2020 point charts, long-time members insisted that those complaining don’t know better; that Disney has the real data; that 1BRs may in fact be higher in demand than 2BRs. And it is often repeated that Disney would never knowingly do something they could be sued for, or that they have lawyers and accountants who look over all of these things.

At every step, Disney is afforded the benefit of the doubt. That if they make a “mistake” that those who are responsible will be held accountable.

At one point historically, this may have been true of Disney, and more specifically the 1992-2011 version of the Disney timeshare. But Disney itself is a different company today, and the timeshare product they sell 30 years into its inception is a different product. The timeshare product is still a valuable one for a lot of families, mine included, but the faith and trust some members may have been willing to put in Disney to do the right thing may be misguided today, as the company has clearly evolved. As members, we should evolve with it.

Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to fight on all the member’s behalf! I didn’t even realize that I didn’t get the credits I just checked and sure enough I got 3 separate $9 credits for my AKV contract we bought in 2016. Most members including myself just pay the bill when it comes without scrutiny.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

No email, but I'm getting $18.98.

Where are you seeing the credit on your online account? I got the emails but when I went hunting online I didn't see anything.

 

[Marionnette]

Where are you seeing the credit on your online account? I got the emails but when I went hunting online I didn't see anything.

Mine are under my dues statements.

 

[JETSDAD]

This was the result of a back and forth with Disney that spanned several months starting late last year. I was informed back in March that this credit would be issued to the membership, but that Disney needed time to dot all their i's and cross all their t's. They also wanted time to message this properly; the same request received for the privately shared plans to address the 2022 point chart issues.

I respected that request to allow Disney time to share with the membership what was ultimately decided and how it was decided, but sadly, the emails sent out (which ironically, I have yet to receive myself) was worded as such that I feel it necessary to address my continued misgivings with how seriously Disney is taking its obligation to act on the membership's behalf now that Disney has finalized the messaging.

First and foremost, the small dollar amounts that people are being refunded should be secondary to the fact that these refunds had to happen at all. This is the bigger story that is being buried and downplayed.

Disney's timeshare management company is supposed to be our first line of defense. They have the fiduciary obligation to act in our best interest as outlined by Florida State law. But the reality is that while they are legal, separate entities/divisions, there is significant overlap between the Management Company and the Developer. This is problematic because the singular objective of the developer is to drive profits. This is far more serious a conflict of interest than most of us would want to acknowledge, because doing so is a bit of buzzkill when we're trying to enjoy the "Club" feels.

But we've seen it happen over and over that Disney's timeshare division will do something that they need to backpedal on because of the simple fact that they got caught doing it by someone else; not because they had some reflective moment of clarity and that they saw the error in their ways.

Let’s be clear about this. This was not an “error.” An error would’ve been caught by CMs when the first resale owners reached out about not getting the tax credits back in 2014. An error would’ve been identified by the accountants who manages the Association’s financials and prepare the annual statements. An error would’ve caught by the “independent” auditors who review those financial statements, PricewaterhouseCoopers (interestingly, the same folks who gave an early start to the career of Jim Lewis and his Hawaiian adventures in accounting).

When I called Disney in 2017 about my first resale contract and the tax overpayment on the contract I was told: “You do not get the money since you didn’t pay it.” So I asked if the previous owner got the money. “Previous owner doesn’t get the money because they no longer have a real estate interest.” I was new to timeshares and assumed this to be true and moved on. In 2020, I called and was told the EXACT same thing again, almost verbatim.

This was not an error. This was policy that was disseminated through the ranks over several years.

It was a policy that was decided by someone at a higher pay grade than the frontline cast members I spoke to who were just parroting what the training told them to say.

This is just the latest incident that gives me pause about the role of the Management Company. This is also why I take issue when some members on these boards decide to defend Disney in their actions time after time after time. Some will use euphemisms like "sloppy" to describe the 2022 point charts, ignoring the manufactured seasonal situation around a shifting holiday. Take a look at the 2019 thread that @Zavandor started on suing Disney for the 2020 point charts, long-time members insisted that those complaining don’t know better; that Disney has the real data; that 1BRs may in fact be higher in demand than 2BRs. And it is often repeated that Disney would never knowingly do something they could be sued for, or that they have lawyers and accountants who look over all of these things.

At every step, Disney is afforded the benefit of the doubt. That if they make a “mistake” that those who are responsible will be held accountable.

At one point historically, this may have been true of Disney, and more specifically the 1992-2011 version of the Disney timeshare. But Disney itself is a different company today, and the timeshare product they sell 30 years into its inception is a different product. The timeshare product is still a valuable one for a lot of families, mine included, but the faith and trust some members may have been willing to put in Disney to do the right thing may be misguided today, as the company has clearly evolved. As members, we should evolve with it.

Well said.

 

[princesscinderella]

Where are you seeing the credit on your online account? I got the emails but when I went hunting online I didn't see anything.

If you go to your dues page you can click to expand and see the payment history by individual contracts.

 

[Sandisw]

Where are you seeing the credit on your online account? I got the emails but when I went hunting online I didn't see anything.

You have to go to the dues activity, It will show there.