DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

[JackosinDIS]

I know, but without that restriction, you've basically made renting worse. You're now defining that people can rent upwards of 50% of their points with your blessing, plus whatever they can sneak through as "family and friends". That's a much worse situation than we have now.

Yes, people could rent 50% of their points (provided that the income from those rentals does not exceed annual dues), and gift the remainder to family.

Or they could rent 100% for a lower price per points. Or give 100% of their points to friends free of charge.

Agree that it will open up loopholes potentially, but if that is how Disney choose to define commercial then hopefully they will have a system in place to flag when something looks fishy, and ask the owners to demonstrate that they are renting within the rules.

My view is that it will still significantly cut down on people who have purchased purely to rent, as those owners are going to have to find a way to use MANY more points themselves.

 

[lowlight]

I really think it’s gonna come down to if you choose to skirt the line , or claim 23 cousins. Be prepared to hire an attorney and spend a ton of money because you’re gonna have to challenge Disney in their interpretation.

If I were a cheater, this is what I'd do. I'd rent out exactly the number of reservations to hit the annual dues amount. Say for Riviera, that's about 1750 points out of a 4000 point contract rented at 21/pt. I'd have a contract that spelled everything out for each rental, and send it to DVC. Then, I'd rent 3 separate weeks in a 2BR to friends and family. Maybe I'm one of those "spreadsheet renters" that has a steady roster of people who rent from me, so the name is the same every year. I've now rented almost 90% of points with only 3 reservations not covered as a "rental" when they ask for proof.

 

[Sandisw]

I wonder if it will be property specific or a totality of dues for all properties. If I have 3k in one and 2k at another, can I rent one property for the full 5k in dues or would I have to split it.

This and using points for annual passes will enable us not to have to waste any points or see them forfeit.

I asked this and it is based on the total annual dues you have. I have three memberships, and 5 contracts, across 3 properties....I would be allowed to generate rental income to offest all the dues I pay.

That's why my maximum, assuming I was renting, which I don't, would be $7K a year right now, or 388 points using an average rental of $18/point.....if I wanted to rent more points than that, I have to lower my rate.

I think the big part in all of this is that the owner who decides to rent needs to make sure they understand what DVC had decided and if I was someone who rents, I'd advise them to talk directly to DVC, unless they want to have a wait and see approach.

Personally, I would not because if I got myself in trouble with DVC, and reservations canceled, it would impact the renter because I chose to risk things.

 

[Mouseforward]

If I were a cheater, this is what I'd do. I'd rent out exactly the number of reservations to hit the annual dues amount. Say for Riviera, that's about 1750 points out of a 4000 point contract rented at 21/pt. I'd have a contract that spelled everything out for each rental, and send it to DVC. Then, I'd rent 3 separate weeks in a 2BR to friends and family. Maybe I'm one of those "spreadsheet renters" that has a steady roster of people who rent from me, so the name is the same every year. I've now rented almost 90% of points with only 3 reservations not covered as a "rental" when they ask for proof.

And might get away with it once. What happens next year when you pull that again and you’re sitting in front of the same person reviewing your account.

They were very clear with me when I gave them my example of renting nearly three years worth of points because my reservation was canceled to a death in the family. That it would not work if it kept happening, I could not do that yearly.

So we may not see a immediate effect in 2026 but by 2028 the losers should be filtered out

 

[mkatsy]

The thing about LLCs is that just officers need to be listed and not the actual owners of the LLC. So if I’m an owner of several LLCs I just make sure I’m just listed as an owner on one or none.

If you found yourself in an “audit” they would ask for the articles of incorporation (in Florida this is public record, so they don’t need your cooperation) and the owners and ownership percentages are listed.

 

[lowlight]

My view is that it will still significantly cut down on people who have purchased purely to rent, as those owners are going to have to find a way to use MANY more points themselves.

I do agree with this, depending on how they enforce it. It's going to cut down on spec rentals if contracts are required to be submitted, because nobody is walking a spec rental for 21/point.

 

[lowlight]

And might get away with it once. What happens next year when you pull that again and you’re sitting in front of the same person reviewing your account.

They were very clear with me when I gave them my example of renting nearly three years worth of points because my reservation was canceled to a death in the family. That it would not work if it kept happening, I could not do that yearly.

So we may not see a immediate effect in 2026 but by 2028 the losers should be filtered out

Some of the "spreadsheet renters" have been renting to the same people for over a decade. An internal audit would likely never flag that as a rental, but rather friends and family use. I haven't seen the spreadsheet in a few years, but I know it's floating around still and had some very big renters on there.

 

[Mouseforward]

Now the interesting question is going to be what is the effect on availability?

I predict this will be much larger than if they just went after like the top 10 commercial renters. I think the set of people who stop going to Disney 10 years ago and rent all their points is larger than the set of commercial renters. But that is just speculation.

I’m still holding to my prediction that BW SV is not gonna get radically better. But I may just be trying to justify the ridiculous price I paid for a for my tiny boardwalk contract that will let me book pool view instead of standard view.

 

[Sandisw]

I know, but without that restriction, you've basically made renting worse. You're now defining that people can rent upwards of 50% of their points with your blessing, plus whatever they can sneak through as "family and friends". That's a much worse situation than we have now.

You are making a big assumption here that if the owners says "oh, those reservations are family and friends" but these ones are rentals, that DVC is going to say "okay".

Nothing she imparted to me would support this....the whole purpose is enhanced enforcement and if an owner gets flagged, then it will be on them to prove they aren't renting for more than dues.

If they can prove that 50% of the points were rentals for an amount they are dues, and provide proof to DVC's satisfaction that the other 50% are "gifts" to family and friends, then the system is working the way it is intended to work..

Going out on a big limb here....but, if I had to make a prediction, I bet it will be very hard for any owner to be able to prove that...not impossible, but hard.

Basically, as I just posted, if I am an owner who wants to rent to cover my dues, I would not expect to be able to regulary use the rest of my points for "gifts", especially if they are trips when I am also not traveling.

This policy will stop what it is intended to stop...owners renting large amount of points to profit above and beyond the cost of dues...if one can't make more money than dues, they don't have any reason to continue to own and rent points.

 

[Mouseforward]

Some of the "spreadsheet renters" have been renting to the same people for over a decade. An internal audit would likely never flag that as a rental, but rather friends and family use. I haven't seen the spreadsheet in a few years, but I know it's floating around still and had some very big renters on there.

But remember Disney reserves the option to make their decision, block your membership, and let you fight them.

They just have to win once, and court cases are public. And we are one ferocious bit of DVC researchers.

 

[Sandisw]

Some of the "spreadsheet renters" have been renting to the same people for over a decade. An internal audit would likely never flag that as a rental, but rather friends and family use. I haven't seen the spreadsheet in a few years, but I know it's floating around still and had some very big renters on there.

They will be looking at the number of reservations in the names of others as that is what clues DVC in it could be a renter.

We don't know how many reservations or points will trigger the review, but if someone has 50% of their points in reservtions in the names of others, and 50% is the threshold, that will create the review.

Let's not forget that DVC has the data already on who has been renting in high degrees. As I said, once a review is done, and an owner contacted, the owner will need to prove to DVC they are not in violation.....to DVC's satisfaction, and if DVC says "not good enough" then that is it. Enforcment happens...

The only exception to this is the RIV and beyond resoorts....IIRC...those terms don't even allow an owner to dispute DVC's decision.

DVC didn't do all this not to enforce against those who are clearly renting at levels that they are profiting more than dues, and I 100% believe those owners will no longer be able to do that....

 

[mkatsy]

If I were a cheater, this is what I'd do. I'd rent out exactly the number of reservations to hit the annual dues amount. Say for Riviera, that's about 1750 points out of a 4000 point contract rented at 21/pt. I'd have a contract that spelled everything out for each rental, and send it to DVC. Then, I'd rent 3 separate weeks in a 2BR to friends and family. Maybe I'm one of those "spreadsheet renters" that has a steady roster of people who rent from me, so the name is the same every year. I've now rented almost 90% of points with only 3 reservations not covered as a "rental" when they ask for proof.

until those people that rent from you as “family & friends” rent from someone else, get caught up in another member’s audit, and then draw attention to you … you’d be better off getting paid in chickens & goats.

 

[Sandisw]

If I were a cheater, this is what I'd do. I'd rent out exactly the number of reservations to hit the annual dues amount. Say for Riviera, that's about 1750 points out of a 4000 point contract rented at 21/pt. I'd have a contract that spelled everything out for each rental, and send it to DVC. Then, I'd rent 3 separate weeks in a 2BR to friends and family. Maybe I'm one of those "spreadsheet renters" that has a steady roster of people who rent from me, so the name is the same every year. I've now rented almost 90% of points with only 3 reservations not covered as a "rental" when they ask for proof.

And DVC might very likely say to you, "Sorry, the proof you provided us to support you did not rent for more than your dues is not satisfactory." We will be canceling the last three reservations that were made.

If the owner doesn't like it, what will they do.....if they continue to try this method, and its review year after year, DVC can say we think you are commerical now and we are locking the account.....

 

[JackosinDIS]

If I were a cheater, this is what I'd do. I'd rent out exactly the number of reservations to hit the annual dues amount. Say for Riviera, that's about 1750 points out of a 4000 point contract rented at 21/pt. I'd have a contract that spelled everything out for each rental, and send it to DVC. Then, I'd rent 3 separate weeks in a 2BR to friends and family. Maybe I'm one of those "spreadsheet renters" that has a steady roster of people who rent from me, so the name is the same every year. I've now rented almost 90% of points with only 3 reservations not covered as a "rental" when they ask for proof.

If I were a cheater, I would just leave my name on as lead guest and only rent to parties that are smaller than the maximum occupancy for a room….

 

[Sandisw]

I do agree with this, depending on how they enforce it. It's going to cut down on spec rentals if contracts are required to be submitted, because nobody is walking a spec rental for 21/point.

There will be no changes to the policy for lead guest changes so the current policy does noot prevent spec rentals....those owners who have chosen to spec rent will no longer be able to rent as many because they will still be capped against total dues.

Nothing presented to me indicates that DVC will require owners to submit rental contract to them....as she explained, if a reservation is flagged, it goes to the business division for review, and she has no information on what that process would be or look like. It is very possible that it will be required then?

Right now, the policy of renting to offset dues, that owners have been allowed to do, will continue to be allowed....and that DVC will use some metric to determine when an owners count should be reviewed....

 

[zavandor]

Things I'd like to know:
1) (real life example). I haven't rented last year and I have not rented this year. Can I rent all my points next year, covering two years of dues? Or, said in a different way: will they look at the average across multiple years?

2) will they look at reservations by UY or by Calendar year?

3) what does it count, when the reservation was made (i.e. when the money changed hands) or when the reservation happens?

4) transferring points is supposed to not involve exchange of money. So, I guess they'll look only at rentals and not transfers?

 

[Mouseforward]

If I were a cheater, I would just leave my name on as lead guest and only rent to parties that are smaller than the maximum occupancy for a room….

And when you never opened the door to your room? A simple IT audit would get ya.

 

[Mouseforward]

4) transferring points is supposed to not involve exchange of money. So, I guess they'll look only at rentals and not transfers?

Hense , the new enforcement on one transfer per membership per year. It would be hard to rent all your points at once.

 

[Sandisw]

Now the interesting question is going to be what is the effect on availability?

I predict this will be much larger than if they just went after like the top 10 commercial renters. I think the set of people who stop going to Disney 10 years ago and rent all their points is larger than the set of commercial renters. But that is just speculation.

I’m still holding to my prediction that BW SV is not gonna get radically better. But I may just be trying to justify the ridiculous price I paid for a for my tiny boardwalk contract that will let me book pool view instead of standard view.

Opinion here....since there is no rule that says owners can not rent hard to get rooms, and that there is no change in policy for lead guest name changes, I think you could still have hard to get rooms rented and that any success rate for owners will not change in any meaningful way....except for the few owners who end up getting them.

But, the bulk of owners who want BW SV and AK value, or AK CL, will remain shut out.

However, if these large point renters who were using bots are no longer in the game, then at least the number of potential confirmed reservations being advertised will be reduced, which I know for many, will make them feel better even if it remains extremely hard to book them!

The big test will come in about 3 - 4 months when people start trying for rooms during the fall.

 

[JackosinDIS]

And when you never opened the door to your room? A simple IT audit would get ya.

Good job I’m not a commercial renter then hey… I’d obviously be rubbish at hiding my tracks