DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[matt_in_nh]

I'm not sure what it's "worth" as it doesn't cost them a penny more, but its "value" (going after a few "small fries") just reminds everyone that no one is safe, and it keeps people guessing as to what the real lower threshold is.

Again, my point simply was that all the chatter about who is "safe" and how Disney won't go after smaller renters, even if they are renting commercially, solely due to the point volumes, isn't based on any facts and it certainly isn't based on what it would cost Disney, time and resource-wise. That's all.

And why is that good for them for all members to be unsure of what is allowed. It is not the cost of sending letters it is the affect it could have on future profits. If you read the terms and conditions and the statements last December they have been pretty clear renting is allowed commercial (it’s your business) is not.

 

[AstroBlasters]

This could end up being a real bloodbath. It all depends on how Disney chooses to play it.

Or people start taking a lot more trips in Grand Villas

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

Or people start taking a lot more trips in Grand Villas

That will also be something Disney would happy to see. Better than drive resale price too low

 

[DonMacGregor]

And why is that good for them for all members to be unsure of what is allowed. It is not the cost of sending letters it is the affect it could have on future profits. If you read the terms and conditions and the statements last December they have been pretty clear renting is allowed commercial (it’s your business) is not.

It's not about what is or isn't allowed. That is a different argument and not related to what I was saying. My post was specifically addressing the idea fomented on this forum, that even if you ARE renting professionally (not allowed), Disney isn't going to go after the little guy because it's not worth their bother (not because they aren't breaking the rules, but just because Disney won't or can't be bothered).

Disney knows that every slease bag grifter who wants to game the system is dying to get a handle on just how far they can push the envelope without getting busted. I can see Disney targeting a few smaller operators (again those who they have already identified as renting professionally and breaking the now-clarified rules), just to remind folks that it's the act that is the violation, not the number of points. Again, I'm not talking about keeping members in the dark as to what is or isn't allowed, just the threshold for enforcement of the rules as they are now defined.

If you're renting professionally (as defined by Disney), regardless of how may points you own, you're breaking the rules, and subject to adverse action. If you're not renting professionally, no matter how few or how many points you own, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[matt_in_nh]

It's not about what is or isn't allowed. That is a different argument and not related to what I was saying. My post was specifically addressing the idea fomented on this forum, that even if you ARE renting professionally (not allowed), Disney isn't going to go after the little guy because it's not worth their bother (not because they aren't breaking the rules, but just because Disney won't or can't be bothered).

Disney knows that every slease bag grifter who wants to game the system is dying to get a handle on just how far they can push the envelope without getting busted. I can see Disney targeting a few smaller operators (again those who they have already identified as renting professionally and breaking the now-clarified rules), just to remind folks that it's the act that is the violation, not the number of points. Again, I'm not talking about keeping members in the dark as to what is or isn't allowed, just the threshold for enforcement of the rules as they are now defined.

If you're renting professionally (as defined by Disney), regardless of how may points you own, you're breaking the rules, and subject to adverse action. If you're not renting professionally, no matter how few or how many points you own, then you have nothing to worry about.

I would never define someone with 300 points who rents 150 as a professional. You cover your dues and have enough left over for the electric bill one month. I am speculating as are you so let’s just put that out there. We don’t agree which is fine. IMO the number of points is a factor in how Disney will go about this. Happy to be wrong I just don’t see it going down that way.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Owners are allowed to rent and board will not get involved.

There are several owners on the rent/trade board right now who almost certainly seem to be violating these clarified Disney rules. Or do you really think that the 4,000 point owners who rent all their points on disboards every year are using them for personal use?

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

If you charged by the point that’s not accurate. Your profit margin is the same

They don’t charge by the point, that’s the point. They make spec rentals and charge rates that result in sometimes obscenely high “by the point” valuations when they could never get such high by the point rates at other times of year.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

But, it's good that someone who rents thousands of points every year for the past many years is confident that they will be fine. I'll not be continuing this conversation with you, so if you'd like the last word, you can have it.

The last word will be when he posts that his account got locked and reservations got cancelled, but we’re probably a year or two out from that.

 

[Cyberc1978]

There are several owners on the rent/trade board right now who almost certainly seem to be violating these clarified Disney rules. Or do you really think that the 4,000 point owners who rent all their points on disboards every year are using them for personal use?

Im just relying the information that was already given.

Personally I don’t care if people rent or not. Im able to get the reservations I want.

 

[Sandisw]

Say what you will about Disney IT (most of it well-deserved), but when it comes to data collection, no one does it better than Disney. That's one reason why I wouldn't be overly confident that Disney has some hard deck, points-based threshold for enforcement, under which you can still operate with impunity. There's no downside or disincentive to casting as wide of a net as they want.

Once they have the data and run the script, it doesn't cost a penny more or less to go after a member with 10,000 points versus one with 1,000. There really isn't an "it's not worth their time" component to it. The old Commodore 64 identifies all members satisfying whatever criteria the analysis is based on, creates a naughty list, and spits out the Nasty Grams.

My post was not about commercial renters being the little guys.

My post was about the owners who don’t have tons and tons of points but who might rent a every year to offset dues.

Nothing they have ever said or done recently indicates they intend to go after average owners and those were the ones I was referring to.

If the big time renters are gone, there is no reason to make the threshold for what tips the scales so low that it catches up owners who rent within reason, or who have a lot of reservations for family and friends.

It’s simply not necessary to do that..maybe the that would have been another choice of words…to curb the concerns about commercial renters.

It’s still a balance and DVC has shown support for owners ability to rent.

 

[Cfabar1]

This might even explain why BPK was added to existing VGF and also why IT was added to PVB association. They have been attempting to fix the problem, but did it at two of the highest point resorts.

Yes, because I would suspect Disney had some data which showed that at these high-point properties studios were very high in demand. We are VGF owners and have never had difficulty booking 1 BR at 11 months - usually in standard view. Often they are still available at 7 months (though not always).

It tells me there are not many owners buying 475 points for their spring break 2 bedroom week for example. They are using their 150 points to stay in studios.

VB at $34 is too high... Barely makes sense at $17/pp...

 

[Sandisw]

Posts were deleted for sharing or quoting posts with active listings. General statements are fine. Specific resorts with prices and size is not!

Thanks all!

 

[Mouseforward]

They don’t charge by the point, that’s the point. They make spec rentals and charge rates that result in sometimes obscenely high “by the point” valuations when they could never get such high by the point rates at other times of year.

I’ve seen them on Facebook, but don’t they usually get laughed at?

On the point rental website it’s still a per point model

 

[DonMacGregor]

My post was not about commercial renters being the little guys.

I wasn’t responding to you. In fact, I didn’t even read your post. So…

 

[Sandisw]

I wasn’t responding to you. In fact, I didn’t even read your post. So…

Except you did and why I quoted and responded directly to you.

 

[Sandisw]

Just a gentle reminder that questioning board polices or practices is not allowed, which includes the Rent and Transfer thread.

 

[Mouseforward]

VB at $34 is too high... Barely makes sense at $17/pp...

That’s a very good point. By my calculation, I don’t see any resort you could buy and still profit off renting The prices are just too high. Even beach club right now is too high at 130 a point .

I suspect any commercial renter got their points more than 10 years ago.

 

[VGCgroupie]

That’s a very good point. By my calculation, I don’t see any resort you could buy and still profit off renting The prices are just too high. Even beach club right now is too high at 130 a point .

I suspect any commercial renter got their points more than 10 years ago.

I say with 110% certainty this is not the case. Commercial renters have boughten contracts recently.

 

[Sandisw]

I say with 110% certainty this is not the case. Commercial renters have boughten contracts recently.

One of the good moves by DVC was the change to allow owners to transfer multiple times between their own memberships.

Not as easy to transfer and resale quickly.

 

[VGCgroupie]

One of the good moves by DVC was the change to allow owners to transfer multiple times between their own memberships.

Not as easy to transfer and resale quickly.

I agree.