DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[DanCali]

Someone has been keeping those rooms locked up in a walk for the past 6 months. If it's not a commercial renter, who is it. Show yourself, prove me wrong!

If you look at Redweek rentals under Jambo House you see about 187 studio listings, 126 of them are Value and 59 are Resort View. There are no Club Level for rent or even Savanna. It's the cheap rooms that get rented out...

It's most likely owners who are walking those rooms for their own use, but I doubt nothing freed up for 6 months. You need to be there at 8am ET and click first when a walker stops walking - definitely not an easy feat.... Lurking and picking up scraps may be easier.

 

[EPCOT Terran]

I am solidly curious who here is actually okay with people renting a majority of their points simply for profit?

From a cosmic justice standpoint, I think this should not be allowed. Every rental should go through the omniscient what-are-you-really-doing analysis and be denied if this person is only an owner for the money to be made in renting. Given that we don't have an omniscient what-are-you-really-doing analyzer (do we?), I'm not sure how close we can come to that without increasing regular owner friction too much.

 

[Genie+]

Those are just incredibly prescient owners. They even had a payment plan in place, you know, just in case they might just have to cancel that one 4,300-point reservation because grandma's next-door neighbor at the retirement home is turning 100 next year, and none of those 4.300 points are bankable.


No pattern there and definitely renting just this one time...

Even funnier seeing some do multiple boards of these huge # of rental points yearly, AND for 7 or 12 years running, etc Maybe some don’t realize even if they set preference not to share post history, that is still possible by username in the normal search bar by just entering the username in the by:member box and nothing else. Lol enough with ‘this year we magically have surplus’ preamble when we can see the same thing said every other season for 8 years straight now!

 

[VGCgroupie]

From a cosmic justice standpoint, I think this should not be allowed. Every rental should go through the omniscient what-are-you-really-doing analysis and be denied if this person is only an owner for the money to be made in renting. Given that we don't have an omniscient what-are-you-really-doing analyzer (do we?), I'm not sure how close we can come to that without increasing regular owner friction too much.

An owner can make money sometimes just not all the time. Disney has a way to analyze this and thats what they are doing. People are just afraid that they will go overboard and punish every rental, I think that is an overreaction and not the case.

 

[muppets3d]

Even funnier seeing some do multiple boards of these huge # of rental points yearly, AND for 7 or 12 years running, etc Maybe some don’t realize even if they set preference not to share post history, that is still possible by username in the normal search bar by just entering the username in the by:member box and nothing else. Lol enough with ‘this year we magically have surplus’ preamble when we can see the same thing said every other season for 8 years straight now!

What a blood sucker! lol

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

We now have a box - let wait and see what Disney intends to do with it before we say it’s a crack down.

True, they have to actually take action to stop the commercial renting. But this is a good first step in facilitating that.

 

[muppets3d]

If you look at Redweek rentals under Jambo House you see about 187 studio listings, 126 of them are Value and 59 are Resort View. There are no Club Level for rent or even Savanna. It's the cheap rooms that get rented out...

It's most likely owners who are walking those rooms for their own use, but I doubt nothing freed up for 6 months. You need to be there at 8am ET and click first when a walker stops walking - definitely not an easy feat.... Lurking and picking up scraps may be easier.

I was able to book it 2 years ago for a stay last year, I know how to book it. It's just that all year this year I haven't been able to because the 11 month window never opened. And Redweek isn't the only place people list DVC rentals, ya know...

Yes I know I can waitlist it and pray. I'm sure that's how most members are staying concierge level. That's what I'll do next time.

 

[kilik64]

Oh man I haven’t thought about min-maxing since early Star Wars: The Old Republic days (when they nerfed the Sith Inquisitor!).

Just as annoying in a single player game, TES4: Oblivion. You HAD to min-max to be able to build a good endgame character.

Oblivion had a dumb leveling system, it was easier to just never level and max out stats, if you leveled eventually it just made the enemies super hard as they outpaced you.

Supposedly fixed in the remaster but I haven't played it yet.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I was able to book it 2 years ago for a stay last year, I know how to book it. It's just that all year this year I haven't been able to because the 11 month window never opened. And Redweek isn't the only place people list DVC rentals, ya know...

If you need a CL reservation stop by FB or another website I cant post here.

 

[Sandisw]

The poster was trying to book Boardwalk View….not the cheaper Resort View.

A popular DVC site has 3 AKL value studio confirmed reservations available for rent next month - for the same night.

Again, no one is saying that commercial renters haven’t grabbed them.

But, they don’t get them all…which even this example proves.

And, if these are one night reservations and multiple nights, I’d bet a pretty penny those were grabbed via a waitlist or as it showed back up randomly from a cancel.

 

[EPCOT Terran]

An owner can make money sometimes just not all the time. Disney has a way to analyze this and thats what they are doing. People are just afraid that they will go overboard and punish every rental, I think that is an overreaction and not the case.

I haven't rented (new owner) and I'm not anticipating renting much, if at all. If I ever found myself in a place where I couldn't bank the points, I'd like to have a different way to use them. Renting, perhaps. Buying APs, perhaps. Gifting to family, for sure (except my kids - no grandkids yet - aren't as in to Disney as my wife and I). I am told over and over again how using my points to transfer in to something else (DCL, Adventures by Disney, etc.) is a poor use of points and that I should rent instead to cover. I'd like to believe the occasional need to rent would be open to me in the future.

My cosmic justice comment regards folks that buy only to rent.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I haven't rented (new owner) and I'm not anticipating renting much, if at all. If I ever found myself in a place where I couldn't bank the points, I'd like to have a different way to use them. Renting, perhaps. Buying APs, perhaps. Gifting to family, for sure (except my kids - no grandkids yet - aren't as in to Disney as my wife and I). I am told over and over again how using my points to transfer in to something else (DCL, Adventures by Disney, etc.) is a poor use of points and that I should rent instead to cover. I'd like to believe the occasional need to rent would be open to me in the future.

My cosmic justice comment regards folks that buy only to rent.

You sound like you are the ideal member and will use your membership how it was intended to be used. Welcome Home

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

You are correct. However, the end game is not to restrict supply. No developer has ever found a way to do that, because (a) it is a game of whack-a-mole and (b) the money is enough of an incentive for the pros to keep moving to new holes.

The end game is to collapse demand. The way to do that is to cancel some rentals---at the last minute and very publicly. It has worked for other developers. It will work for Disney if they choose to do it. And based on the langauge they are using, it sure seems like they are lining up the ducks to do so.


It's worse than that (or better, depending on your point of view): If a handful of very vocal guests complain about last-minute DVC rental cancellations, that will taint the entire market. All a prospective renter knows is that the could show up after a long day of travel to find that they don't have a room. That translates very quickly into constant reminders in the Disney online ecosystem that "DVC rentals are risky."

It does not take very much of that before the demand for DVC rentals drops precipitously. If you think this won't happen, go take a look at the we loooooove Club Wyndham Bonnet Creek thread on the Orlando Resorts board. It's long, and you might have to hunt around for the right point in the thread where it turned, but it is definitely in there. At the beginning of that thread, in the mid 2010s, it was the absolute darling of the offsite folks. Now? "It's too dangerous, don't risk it." In the meantime, a few of the very high-profile Bonnet Creek renters finally went out of business.

Wyndham tried many (many!) things to restrict supply, and had been doing so since I became an owner more than 20 years ago. Limiting (and eventually eliminating) point transfers, instituting very strict guest certificate rules and fees, eliminating developer perks on resale bookings.

None of them worked. Cancelling some reservations at the last minute worked. That combined with the targeted freezing of some very high profile renter accounts pushed a lot of landlords out of the public rental market. It is hard to fight a big corporation when you have a montly maintenance fee nut to make and suddenly cannot make any new reservations or put any guests names on existing ones.

It's this 100 percent.

 

[muppets3d]

Again, no one is saying that commercial renters haven’t grabbed them.

But, they don’t get them all…which even this example proves.

And, if these are one night reservations and multiple nights, I’d bet a pretty penny those were grabbed via a waitlist or as it showed back up randomly from a cancel.

There are 3 available a month out on one broker's site I happened to check. Who knows how many other brokers have held, how many have already rented, etc. Yes it is possible some lucky normal member happened to grab one I guess. Sometimes the broker's scripts blip and they fail, I guess. This is just a moment in time for a random day.

 

[Sandisw]

I mean, that’s different than a normal situation though, as that removes profit motive *and the actions that go along with that*.

One is a favor that costs *you* money (and are less likely to do), one is an action that *reduces losses, or increases gains*. That is a strong motivator to act unethically, or even outside the bounds of contractual agreements.

It is definitely a different situation but put yourself in DVCs shoes.

When they look at a membership, all they know is reservations are booked in the names of others.

They don’t know whether it’s a rental or a free gift to someone…so, they are going to have to decide what number or percent of points/reservations they want to consider could be fmsilt/friends vs rentals?

They can assume all are rentals, all are family/friends or something in between.

They could require owners to submit rental contracts…they could decide to require owners to send guests with a guest certificate

But, do they want to go to that degree? Or, do you think they will find a way to deal with commercial renters in the easiest and cost effective way?

 

[Sandisw]

There are 3 available a month out on one broker's site I happened to check. Who knows how many other brokers have held, how many have already rented, etc. Yes it is possible some lucky normal member happened to grab one I guess. Sometimes the broker's scripts blip and they fail, I guess. This is just a moment in time for a random day.

Well, since we have reports of people who have gotten them, myself included, those commercial renters aren’t taking all of them.

We can move on.

 

[EPCOT Terran]

It is definitely a different situation but put yourself in DVCs shoes.

When they look at a membership, all they know is reservations are booked in the names of others.

They don’t know whether it’s a rental or a free gift to someone…so, they are going to have to decide what number or percent of points/reservations they want to consider could be fmsilt/friends vs rentals?

They can assume all are rentals, all are family/friends or something in between.

They could require owners to submit rental contracts…they could decide to require owners to send guests with a guest certificate

But, do they want to go to that degree? Or, do you think they will find a way to deal with commercial renters in the easiest and cost effective way?

I'm worried about enforcement mechanisms in the absence of perfect knowledge. If a few high-profile examples (pour encourager les autres) eliminates a decent portion of commercial renting, I'd much prefer that to heavy-handed double-checking of every reservation.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Over the past few weeks I’ve taken my first interest in Interval International, and joined a Facebook user group. The first thing I noticed was the large amount of DVC inventory Disney was dumping in there and I asked if this was normal. Nope … they were having a field day with the cheap rooms, I was even envious, some were cheaper than renting from a broker … but then it dawned on me that this can’t be good. Now we see them putting the commercial renters on notice … makes sense … go get ‘em Mickey!

I’m in the members only section of TUG where we have a sightings board where the II DVC exchanges are posted and monitored very closely. (Not for commercial use to help other members find trades for personal use). There is absolutely no unusual activity. Current inventory drops by DVC fit well into historical patterns.

Also this is not DVC inventory that Disney is "dumping." Every single one of those exchanges represents points that were deposited to II by a DVC member to trade out into another hotel. The people in your facebook group are extremely misinformed.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm worried about enforcement mechanisms in the absence of perfect knowledge. If a few high-profile examples (pour encourager les autres) eliminates a decent portion of commercial renting, I'd much prefer that to heavy-handed double-checking of every reservation.

That is my hope! I think those of us who have been around 15 plus years know that DVC makes decisions that have some benefit for them and isn’t keen on spending more of its management fee than it needs to.

Pretty easy to weed out those who are obvious and not stress about the ones who are not.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

Checking in on the rental forum, there are currently multiple threads where owners have thousands of points for rent and may be in the “Danger Will Robinson” zone for their rentals:

1. An owner renting 4,300 points:
2. An owner renting 3,100 points:
3. An owner renting 2,000 points:
4. An owner renting 1850 points.

And that’s just on the first page.

I'm very interested in how our rental forum here addresses this situation.