DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[Sandisw]

I guess you have never needed a reservation and then saw it up for rent from various people who rent tons of rooms. Maybe then you would feel differently.

The bottom line is enough members were being impacted by this and complained and DVC doesn't take this type of major action over a few complaints. So just because you see no problem doesnt mean that there is not one.

I see it and it doesn’t not bother me. Even if the commercial renters are gone, you may see someone who rents a high demand room.

I haven’t seen anything from DVC that even mentions that their enforcement will prevent owners from renting specific rooms.

Going after those who are clearly running a business doesn’t mean that your average owner who has a high demand room booked will be prevented from renting it.

 

[muppets3d]

Missing the point. It’s not conjecture because we have reports here and elsewhere that owners are getting AKV CL studios for their trips.

So, no matter what, 5 is still 5 and take bots and rentals completed out of it.

If 100 owners want them for their family vacation, and you are one of 100, your maximum chance is 5%

And, I’d bet more than 100 owners are trying for those each day.

If it makes AKV owners feel it’s fairer for those CL rooms to only be used by owners and not renters, that’s a valid opinion.

Today you have 100 owners going after 5 studios, but what they don't know is those 5 studios are locked up in a walk by renter bots who own thousands of points. So they have a 0% chance of getting one. Soon they'll have a 5% chance of getting one. I was an art student - not a math student - but I'll take a 5% chance over a 0% chance any day of the week.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I'll just keep saying this:

The flood gates absolutely won't open with rooms available weeks out across every resort. The points are still out there, still owned by someone, and still being used to make reservations.

However, instead of one "mega renter" owning dozens of contracts all for commercial use, targeting and reserving the same lucrative room types (studios, for example) during high demand weeks, and making numerous reservations, you'll see a more natural distribution as now dozens of discrete owners, with their own travel plans, preferred or needed room types, and travel calendars, will be using those points in a more organic fashion and not necessarily targeting peak travel periods.

In other words, it's a statistical improbability that the multiple owners who will replace the mega renters will all seek out and rent the exact same rooms, at the exact same times, in the exact same numbers, for the same duration, as the mega renters. No amount of pretzel logic or rationalization will improve that improbability.

Sure, some folks will still use their points during peak periods, and that's to be expected. And why shouldn't they? They own the points and that is their right. However, the points are distributed across multiple members who won't all want to go on vacation all during the same travel periods.

I am 100% fine if another member gets a room instead of me. That is how this is supposed to work. I am not fine when I see that room up for rent for $25 a point next to 10 other reservations being rented out by that same "owner just renting their points"

 

[lowlight]

I read through the thread and the consensus seems to be under 1k point there should be no need to worry, but if Disney cracks down more severely on this, I fear many people will have to sell and crash the resale market.

You ever watch a horror or thriller movie and you see a group of people huddled around in the dark, reassuring one another they are going to be alright? But as the viewer, you know they are about to be eaten by whatever is outside? And then one foolhardy man says he's going to check out what's happening outside and he's eaten alive? That's what that is.

Early December 2024 was a bloodbath too. I don't know how much of that was due to rentals though. I guess that is just a very popular time to travel and DVC probably should rebalance that season.

Early December of the last 3 years has been getting progressively worse. How much is due to rentals? Maybe 80%, maybe 10%, it doesn't matter the number because...it's enough. It's a circle of pain- the rooms go quickly, W number of people are able to get the reservation they want, and X number of W people rent them as spec rentals. Y number of people miss out on that room completely, and next year, those Y people, having seen the X people rent the rooms they wanted for their own use, now walk a week out from the date they want. Then next year, X and Z see they can't get their rooms, and walk them two weeks earlier. W catches on, and they join the fun, and now you are walking a full month out, and not a single person who logs on 11 months to the date can get 75%+ of the room configurations that should be available unless they choose to rent. I call this story "why I sold 2 of my contracts and I'm now much happier as a renter/cash room person". Available at your local book store soon.

 

[Sandisw]

I mentioned yesterday that DVC is able to force an owner to sell if they've violated terms.

Where does it say that because I must be missing it. I can only see terms about lock outs.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I am not familiar with Wyndham so i can't comment on that. But I'm familiar with Marriott well.

When I look at the chart below (Marriott Vacations over the past 5 years compared to the aggregate US market), I don't think pad policy that destroys resale value doesn't matter. It's probably not just one thing, but the culmination of many things over the years that led to this.


View attachment 970599


We do not really know DVDs marketing costs but when I look at MVCs sales and marketing costs as a fraction of timeshare sales, I see the former going up and the latter going down. While "cost of vacation products" (via ROFR) is going down, it also seems to be taking more marketing cost and effort to sell less. Bad policy may not affect sales and the stock price immediately, but it does catch up.


View attachment 970602

At some point you run out of totally uninformed buyers who walk into the sales offices. People learn about the resale option either before or after their first purchase and asking those people to buy (or buy again) becomes very hard when they know the value of what they buy is 90% less the following week.

Marriott did not decimate their rental market like Wyndham did. Marriott's woes are due to a lot of other factors (skyrocketing maintenance fees being one of them).

 

[mkatsy]

Well well well, how the turntables have turned. So interesting to see a bunch of new names (or old dormant ones) crawl out of the woodwork to sway public opinion with tales about indigent grandmothers who need to rent thousands of points for “a few years” to save their great great grandpappy’s farm home from repossession.

I told myself I’d do a mountain climber for every time someone said “clamping down on rentals won’t affect room availability” and now my arms are so weak I can barely type. Just waiting for the “well a 2BR theme park view is available at 11 months, nobody promised you a room type” to start and maybe I’ll finally be able to button my college jeans again.

I imagine things will move swiftly from here on out, but Redweek has trended up in rental listings since the announcement, not down, so fear doesn’t seem to be a rapid motivator.

If you looked at the deep discounts Disney is giving on rooms (2026 is free kids dining and 40% off a villa during spring break?), this was inevitable and likely won’t be pleasant for the offenders. Nobody steals from the mouse.

Over the past few weeks I’ve taken my first interest in Interval International, and joined a Facebook user group. The first thing I noticed was the large amount of DVC inventory Disney was dumping in there and I asked if this was normal. Nope … they were having a field day with the cheap rooms, I was even envious, some were cheaper than renting from a broker … but then it dawned on me that this can’t be good. Now we see them putting the commercial renters on notice … makes sense … go get ‘em Mickey!

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I don't really want to start anything, but "caution" with respect to what? What are you supposed to be afraid might happen at disney world?

Unfortunately Canadians cannot instantly materialize within the Disney World gates. I suspect the "caution" applies more to the ports of entry.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I am 100% fine if another member gets a room instead of me. That is how this is supposed to work. I am not fine when I see that room up for rent for $25 a point next to 10 other reservations being rented out by that same "owner just renting their points"

Exactly.

 

[muppets3d]

Over the past few weeks I’ve taken my first interest in Interval International, and joined a Facebook user group. The first thing I noticed was the large amount of DVC inventory Disney was dumping in there and I asked if this was normal. Nope … they were having a field day with the cheap rooms, I was even envious, some were cheaper than renting from a broker … but then it dawned on me that this can’t be good. Now we see them putting the commercial renters on notice … makes sense … go get ‘em Mickey!

So you're saying DVC is simply flooding the market with inventory to make the brokers go out of business?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I guess you have never needed a reservation and then saw it up for rent from various people who rent tons of rooms. Maybe then you would feel differently.

The bottom line is enough members were being impacted by this and complained and DVC doesn't take this type of major action over a few complaints. So just because you see no problem doesnt mean that there is not one.

Not often I use an absolute but on this I can state 100% no I wouldn't feel differently. It's 1st come 1st served. Flexibility comes with the offset of you may not get what you want. I purchased flexibility knowing I wouldn't necessarily get my most preferred room or even preferred time.
If that hadn't been acceptable I wouldn't have bought. (There wasn't a guaranteed week product at the time which was ok).

 

[Sandisw]

Today you have 100 owners going after 5 studios, but what they don't know is those 5 studios are locked up in a walk by renter bots who own thousands of points. So they have a 0% chance of getting one. Soon they'll have a 5% chance of getting one. I was an art student - not a math student - but I'll take a 5% chance over a 0% chance any day of the week.

That is simply not true…because people have posted here they have indeed gotten an AKV CL studio.

So, commercial renters are not getting those 5 rooms every single day. They just are not.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Over the past few weeks I’ve taken my first interest in Interval International, and joined a Facebook user group. The first thing I noticed was the large amount of DVC inventory Disney was dumping in there and I asked if this was normal. Nope … they were having a field day with the cheap rooms, I was even envious, some were cheaper than renting from a broker … but then it dawned on me that this can’t be good. Now we see them putting the commercial renters on notice … makes sense … go get ‘em Mickey!

Another POV - that should not make owners all that happy to see DVC can be traded into so cheaply with other timeshares.

 

[muppets3d]

That is simply not true…because people have posted here they have indeed gotten an ALv CL studio.

I have tried to book one for months now, I can't even start a walk because for example as of right now the first day one is available is 11 months + 2 days, so I can't even try. It's been like that for months. The only way to get one is to do a waitlist and pray, but that is no way to plan a vacation. I can't compete with bots.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Not often I use an absolute but on this I can state 100% no I wouldn't feel differently. It's 1st come 1st served. Flexibility comes with the offset of you may not get what you want. I purchased flexibility knowing I wouldn't necessarily get my most preferred room or even preferred time.
If that hadn't been acceptable I wouldn't have bought. (There wasn't a guaranteed week product at the time which was ok).

I bought DVC because it wasnt a fixed week style timeshare. You and I very different people clearly. I think many feel how I do that it is not okay for people to book and rent 11 reservations all at once preventing me from getting that room and I know many feel that way because they told DVC and DVC is now taking action. Will this also benefit Disney? Absolutely. If it weren't an actual problem they wouldn't be doing anything.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I wonder how the Rental Brokers will re-word their contracts to protect themselves and/or the owners of the points from Renters who have a rental canceled by DVC through no fault of their own. I'm guessing a few lawyers will be involved in the rewrite of these contracts.

If the Rental Brokers try to do this they will go out of business quickly. Cancelled reservations is one thing, but someone coming to the internet to post that their reservation was cancelled through no fault of the renter and DVC Rental Store or David's refuses to refund? Yeah, that would be enough to drive their business under. Nobody would use them. Doesn't matter what they write in the contract.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Where does it say that because I must be missing it. I can only see terms about lock outs.

Unfortunately it's been ages since I've read thru. Only periodically do I refresh when DVC throws a new wrench into the works so I'll be doing that again soon. I'll let you know if I run across it then.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I bought DVC because it wasnt a fixed week style timeshare. You and I very different people clearly. I think many feel how I do that it is not okay for people to book and rent 11 reservations all at once preventing me from getting that room and I know many feel that way because they told DVC and DVC is now taking action. Will this also benefit Disney absolutely. If it weren't an actual problem they wouldn't be doing anything.

You bought it because it wasn't a fixed week? So you knew that you weren't guaranteed any particular reservation?

 

[muppets3d]

Another POV - that should not make owners all that happy to see DVC can be traded into so cheaply with other timeshares.

I'm pretty sure they only put into Interval International what owners trade out. So for example if I traded out a week of my DVC points for a week in Aruba with II, Disney has to put a week of DVC inventory in there.

 

[VGCgroupie]

You bought it because it wasn't a fixed week? So you knew that you weren't guaranteed any particular reservation?

Yes. As I said before I am fine if another owner gets a room. I am not okay with people who buy contracts with the sole intent of renting rooms for profit. Not sure how any member would be okay with that. Do you rent your points?