DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

So why I Disney cracking down? I got two theories:
1. They have heard complaints about the commercial point renter’s hoarding all the primo dates and rooms and they want to even playing field for all DVC members.
2. Disney feels that the commercial point renter’s are cutting into their profits.
 
What percentage of owners want studios regularly? If that percentage exceeds the percentage of studios, we see booking supply/demand problems regardless of commercial renters.

What percentage of owners want the high demand October-December period? If over 25% fall into this group, we see another supply/demand problems regardless.

Not making excuses for commercial renters. Definitely happy to see a crackdown on them.

I suspect people blame renters too often because they don’t understand so many people want the same thing they do.

For background, in 16 years we rented a single night stay once. Another time we gave friends a bargain rate at $15/pt and it was booked about 4 months out. That’s it for our renting experience. These friends bought Riviera that stay so it benefitted DVC.
 
Probably not who this is targeted at, but I am concerned. DH and I own about 700 points and rent 5-7 60 point reservations a year and keep the rest. Some years we use all of them on Bungalow stays or Grand Villas. Or like last month when I booked VDH, but a 30% Grand Californian cash rate came out, I rented my reservation and paid a bit more to stay cash at the Grand.

We do rent a lot. We bought when we were 23, being able to rent to subsidize the cost really helped us being able to afford to buy in at a young age. We are 30 now and in a better financial position and can afford all the points, but I like renting to cover the points we do use. They really are “free” stays that way. And we will often splurge on weekends in Grand Villas or Bungalows with friends and family if I had decent rental income for the year. This week I have a Copper Creek Cabin booked while some family is in town. If they really cracked down I think I would sell and stop those stays. Also, we will normally book a Grand Californian studio at 11 months at 7 months I will try to use my SSR SAPs to book a two bedroom. If I can rent the Grand Californian studio out at $25+pp we will keep the two bedroom and take friends. I really like renting to be able to subsidize and splurge on reservations I normally wouldn’t do.
I am pretty much in the same boat you are in.
I think the wording in the T&C’s leave it open for them to do so. Whether they do it is yet to be seen.
 
I am pretty much in the same boat you are in.
I think the wording in the T&C’s leave it open for them to do so. Whether they do it is yet to be seen.
Agreed, and at this point I really don’t care. I will sell and probably make a profit. I really enjoy the splurge trips and believe Disney is more fun with family and friends, but we are ok selling.
 

Right this moment, if I try to book a room 11 months out, just over 24% of the room types are unavailable. (30/123)

When I bought 8 years ago it was treated as common knowledge that you can basically get anything but those 2 room types at AKL at 9-10 months or so, and some start to fill up but most things would even still be available at 7 months for bouncing around. The number of owners within single resorts has not gone up enough to cause a change. The 7 months issue is absolutely explainable by new resorts. 11 month? Not explained by "more owners" when looking at resorts that have been sold out for years. Walking, which separately is an issue, is one of those issues that comes up due to difficulty and like the renting thing snowballs a small, inconsistent issue, into a constant one. The more people who have trouble, the more people who walk, which causes more walking, etc.

As of now, 30 different room types, across 9 different resorts, are completely off limits 11 months out. That is not what it was a decade ago. People are complaining that it has gotten worse because it has gotten worse. I mean we own 4 resorts because we used the points from the first to try out the other 3 and then bought in... all three of those rooms we stayed in to test out those resorts, I couldn't book today at 11 months- I sure as heck wouldn't have gotten a 5-6 nights at 7 months.

One of the second resorts I bought way back around 2011 was BWV. Back then I wanted a standard studio for the fall. Even back then it was hard to book at 11 months. So I learned from the boards here how to walk a reservation. In the last 14 years every single resale/direct buy of BWV has been probably buying BWV to use only at BWV. That has been making getting rooms at BWV harder. I'm a prime example, I've never once used my BWV points to book anywhere buy BWV.

These days when I book at BWV I still book at 11 months, but for a standard 1 bed and there is no problem ever.

I own BLT and RIV as well and when I stay there I also book at 11 months and have no problems, again because it is a 1 bedroom.

People are always going to have problems getting rooms that make up a small percentage of the points at a popular resort. I never see people complaining that SSR is hard to get, why because it has a lot of rooms in each category and isn't that popular a resort.
 
Just to circle back. There are 9 listings on the front page of the rental board of at least 500pts for rent. 7 of them over 1000.

These are the land lords in referring to.

I see there is someone renting a huge amount of SSR and OKW points. What is wrong with that? They aren't doing spec rentals so they aren't locking up high demand rooms blocking out other owners. They are SSR and OKW points so they certainly aren't impacting anyone at the popular resorts trying to make a booking in the 11-8 month window. Their booking pattern is probably exactly like any other smaller SSR/OKW owner who bought SAP points and is now trying to book at another resort within 7 months.
 
This is my theory also. Disney had to release a lot of massive discounts this year to fill hotel rooms, I think they will crack down on commercial renting up to the point where they don’t have to give 30% off and free dining, etc. I don’t know what their target occupancy and discount rates are, but I expect that enforcement will continue until they hit them. A big economic downturn could mean more enforcement and a travel boom could mean less.

I don’t think stopping spec renting will help very much at 7mo, but it should give owners more options at 11mo… also for those who don’t care about cheap rooms, remember that spec rooms being tied up causes a trickle down impact— someone who’s not in value will be in standard studio, standard studio gets bumped to savannah, and so forth. I do think it’s more of a problem for those of us who own at smaller resorts (there is no “pay more for different view” option at VGC and BCV) and those who want the lowest point rooms, but if Disney is willing to let most of their lowest point rooms go to spec renters eventually they are gonna have a problem with owners.

There are definitely areas where rebalancing would help make it less cutthroat to get certain rooms, but as long as there are rooms where you can make a lot of money, spec renters will swoop them.

I think it’s about protecting profit margins at hotels, with a marginal benefit to improving owner experience.

I don’t mean to single out this post, but there are a lot of people on the thread confidently stating that only the most dramatic, egregious examples will be punished and I don’t understand why? Maybe it’s just my risk averse lawyer instincts But I don’t understand how anyone could stay with confidence that people who rent half or more of their points won’t be targeted when Disney is indicated it doesn’t want regular or frequent rentals.

I’ve never seen where the 95% cut off is for total points, but I would be surprised if it was over 1000, I would be surprised if the first wave targeted people under 500 points, but I also wouldn’t count on it if I was renting 400 points each year.

Disney is almost certainly going after people who rent points as a “side hustle” or just one of many prongs of their business. But none of those people are renting “once in a while.”

Some will use, some will bank, some will trade, and some will lose. It would definitely make more rooms available to owners and not people using rooms to make money.

If we stopped spec renting, I do think we’d see more availability at exactly 11mo all the way down to 6.5 mo, on average, but then we’d see less availability and waitlists clearing 1-4 months out.

Once you start looking for (or coming across) confirmed rentals, it becomes clear a huge chunk of overall rooms are being used to maximize profits (based on the patterns of what’s available and the prices they charge) and tie up peak dates.

I think Disney will probably start with the very biggest accounts but they could start with the most obvious. If you have 1000 points and haven’t been to a Disney resort in 5 years, that could put you in the crosshairs.


On other threads about spec renting and walking, several members have reported not being able to get their home resort at 11m (or even 11.1mo) and already seeing multiple rental availability for those rooms and those dates. There is a better argument that DVC is violating its duties to members if it’s not possible for a human being to reserve certain room types without specialized software than there is that DVC can’t crack down on people who rent regularly and frequently.
Not being able to book your home resort at 11 months - that sounds very unlikely.
What does sound likely is that an owner at ie AKV can’t book a value or club level studio. But to say they can’t book their home resort is wrong, just book a resort or savanna view studio.
 
I see there is someone renting a huge amount of SSR and OKW points. What is wrong with that? They aren't doing spec rentals so they aren't locking up high demand rooms blocking out other owners. They are SSR and OKW points so they certainly aren't impacting anyone at the popular resorts trying to make a booking in the 11-8 month window. Their booking pattern is probably exactly like any other smaller SSR/OKW owner who bought SAP points and is now trying to book at another resort within 7 months.
The problem is commercial renting is now and has always been against the terms of the contract regardless of where they own the points, just because its SSR and OKW doesn't make it okay.
 
I think in this case the owner will be fine, the contract has a history of very clear personal use and wasnt purchased with the intent of renting. ie: you purchase and bam book a good date to rent out. Again so much over thinking in this thread. A commercial renter is very very clear even if DVC isnt giving hard number guidelines.

Side note: I am now just realizing your sign off always has this picture 🤣
This is us; pre- Covid we were in a point hole, always borrowing in October from December. Now we are not, and we rented some last year. First grandkid on the way, but it may be a while before we start going again. I do not feel threatened by this.

Now if I had a ton of points and was using some to clearly pay the dues, I might be in a different camp. DVC has been great to us over the years; every 2 years or so, we discuss selling. So far it's been a no - but it's clearly a luxury for us.
 
I have always recommended people renting points as an option both to save money and/or explore membership. That said, when you rent from a broker, you don’t really know if you are like the many owners on the previous 26 pages with legit rentals or renting from a conglomerate. Yes, there has always been a risk but like many said, a few “bad experiences” and this changes the market for sure.

As the cost has risen (in both buying and simply going to Mouse House) I agree with others that the demand for studios has skyrocketed. Both cheap and smaller point rooms are going to be in high demand for everyone. I certainly hope this relieves some pressure but I am in the wait and see camp.
 
Just to circle back. There are 9 listings on the front page of the rental board of at least 500pts for rent. 7 of them over 1000.

These are the land lords in referring to.

1000 points is a lot of points to rent, I agree with that.

And it will be up to DVC to make a decision about those owners.

They will set whatever metrics they want to flag accounts…which has been rumored it will initially be based on a % of reservations in which the owner is not listed and take it from there.

Once they do, they will determine what actions to take.
 
For those of you who want to ban all renting:

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/faq/points/renting/

Q: As a Disney Vacation Club Member, can I rent my Vacation Points?

A: Members may rent their Vacation Points. However, the use of your Vacation Points for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by a Member that the Board of Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.
 
I was not able to get a BW view for my week in may next year ( I got a GP studio ) I was clicking at the right second but this year no luck. I really don't think that is a popular week for renters ( not in the top ten)

There are 246 studios , and 29 BWV , 52 SV - 165 g/pool view

If you bring 29 cookies to a party with 246 guests - some are just not gonna get a cookie ....

If all the commercial renters sold their contracts ... we would still have only 29 BWV and more than 246 people wanting a studio. Some years I still wont get a cookie ..
 



















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