DVC sold out resorts and other Questions

[joelly2103]

My family goes to Disney 2 times a year consistently - Halloween and Christmas. We usually stay 6 nights at POR and a few times ASM. We have always wanted to stay at WL or BC but felt that the room rates are so high that it would take the fun out of going to Disney...You guessed it I am cheap.

Well I have been thinking about joining for the last couple of years. It seems that how easy it would be to pay the annual membership, and get to stay that the resorts we have always wanted to try but were unwilling to pay for.

I understand there is a large upfront investment, but that is one time pain and easily forgotten after the first trip. I have seen many different calculations and depending on how the math is done, the value comes out both pro and con.

First, I am asking for everyones opinions on how this has been good for you; fun and financially.

Second, I am very interested in WL, but I heard people complain how far away the villas are from anything. I want to stay there at Christmas and have heard that the only way really to do this is to make it your home resort - as Christmas is the most popular (booking 11 mo in advance verse 7 mo in advance). Having said that, what does everyone think about this resort, as compared to the others?

Third, can this be purchased through Disney and do they discount?

Fourth, what is a good rate to pay and do you think the price will go down, if they discount SSR?

Fifth and last - I still don't understand if there is any importants on the month for your use year??? Do you have to bank months before the end of your use year or can you do it the last month?

Thats it and I am sure that is enough! Sorry this is so long, but I have so many questions.

I have read hundreds of posts and everyone seems very candid, honest and experienced with this.

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Disney doesn't discount sold out resorts, but you can get on a wait list to purchase them. You'll pay full price. They do often offer special pricing for the current resort being sold.

I'd bet that if they do build Villas at Contemporary Resort, the price will go up again.

Don't forget you still have the annual dues to pay each year. Currently they run about $4 a point.

The VWL are not any further from anything than the other resorts. They are directly adjacent to the WL, but closer to the bus stop. MK is the closest theme park. OKW and SSR are probably the furthest from the theme parks, but closer to DTD and the water parks (TL).

 

[joelly2103]

Thank you for the quick answers

I have been looking at the resale market too. I am aware of the annual dues and I know it is high at WLV, but less than a room rental - for sure. If we want to stay there around Christmas, and that is very difficult unless it is your home resort. Well I know that should not only be the consideration, because the annual dues do add up, when the rates are higher.

I have a lot to think about.....Thanks again

 

[LisaS]

You can purchase VWL directly from Disney. Current price is $95/point. Lately the prices have been going up about $3/point per year. Disney often has points available at the sold out resorts (other than BCV anyway) but if not you can go on a waiting list. You can also purchase via resale which will be a bit cheaper. Click on the "DVC Resales" link at the top of this page to see the current listings at The Timeshare Store (this board's sponsor). Add about $500 for closing costs to the price of resale contracts. I believe Disney is also charging closing costs for new members (around $200?).

In 2006 the dues at VWL were $4.61/point. Dues vary from resort to resort so here is a chart of the dues/point at each resort, as well as a chart of the annual increases: http://personalpages.tds.net/~rb/DIS/DVC/DVCDuesHistory.htm

Your Use Year determines when your points are renewed each year and also determines your banking deadlines. You can bank up to 100% of your points during the first 6 months of your Use Year. After that, you can bank up to 50% during the next 3 months (including any points banked during the first 6 months) and finally up to 25% during the next month (including any points banked up to that time). You cannot bank any points during the final two months of your Use Year. As I said, these percentages are cumulative so if you banked more than 50% of your points during the first 6 months, you cannot bank any more points from the 7th month to the end of the UY. On the other hand if you banked 25% of your points during the first 6 months, you could bank up to another 25% during your "50%" banking window.

You can book a reservation as early as 11 months prior to your check out date at your home resort, 7 months prior at non-home resorts, regardless of your Use Year. UY really only comes into play if you ever have to cancel a vacation that is scheduled near the end of your UY -- your points would be returned to your account but you would be past all banking deadlines and unless you could use them for another trip prior to the end of your UY, the points would expire. So if you expect most of your trips to occur at Halloween and Christmas, then an October UY would be great for you and a December or February UY could be inconvenient but again, it only really matters if you have to cancel a stay scheduled for some time near the end of your UY.

Hope this helps!

 

[joelly2103]

Thank you for the info.

I have run all the costs, and I am still interested, so I have not talked myself out of it yet

Can you tell me if you found any downside to your vacation club?

You have informed me about the point deadlines, and certainly have eased the unknown about that. Do you feel with the banking and borrowing deadlines, you think about your vacations all the time or do you get used to it, once you start working with it.

What would you say would be a good price to pay resale, nothing like buyers remorse, if an uneducated mind did not get a fair deal?

I guess I want to make sure I have ALL the infomation I need to make an informed decision.....

Thank you again!

 

[abner1776]

Asking what is a fair price to pay retail is like asking what is a fair price for a "car" ...every car is different. Each resort has it's own value and you have to figure in how many points are included...current year, prior year, etc. Also the UY can also impact the value of the points.

First click on the DVC resales at the top of this board to get an idea as to what TTS is offering for resales at this time. Then look over the resales and see what each one is offering. If a price seems too low it's because the contract is probably stripped...no current points available.

SSR will generally command a lower price than BC simply because of the demand for BC points...and then....

..just when you think you have figured it all out and have nailed down one particular contract to make an offer on....ROFR rears it's ugly head, and poof... your back at square one again looking for other agreements.

ROFR is right of first refusal whereby DVC can decide to buy a contract once you and the seller have agreed on a price. DVC will do it when they think the price is too low or they want the points for their inventory to resell. So...just because you have negotiated a great price with the seller doen't mean you will end up with the points.

There are postings on this board which show which contracts have made it through ROFR and the respective prices...check them out b/4 you make an offer. I have even heard of buyers offering a higher price to the seller simply to make sure the contract makes it through ROFR.

 

[joelly2103]

So you are saying that if I travel Oct & Dec and a buy a contract now that has points comming next month. I can;

A.book travel 11 or 7 months out, depending on the resort I want to stay at
B. Bank any or all points and I have 6 months to determine that (or the # of points bankable will be reduced.
C. If I choose an October UY - 150 points comming 10/2006, so on 11/2006 I decide to book 5 days at halloween and 5 days at Christmas 2007 at my home resort

come late August 2007 (more than 30 days out), I find out that I can not take the October trip, then I have to use these points before October 2007, or they expire? Im wondering in this case if December or January use year would be better, assuming I booked with current points and non banked.

For example;
It is January 2007 and I have a membership with points. I plan the October vacation and December and I can not make the October and have to cancel, I can rebook that time (assuming I do this 30 days in advance of the Oct trip, and add more days or upgrade room) for December, right?

Am I thinking too much about this?????

 

[joelly2103]

Thank you,
I have looked at all the prices and they are all over the board.

Have you ever stood in line at the airport and found out that someone got a significantly better deal on their airfare than you..........hmmmm....then you think to yourself if you had just researched it better, and for a breif moment you feel a bit dumb....because you are smart enough, you should have gotten that deal too!! Then you get on the flight, get to Disney and forget about it.. Well sort of, because I still remember it.

So, I am doing my research now and I want to make sure I don't have buyers remorse over the price I paid.

Anyway that is why I asked, thank you for your input.

 

[bobbiwoz]

The problem is ROFR, sometimes Disney takes contracts that one would think would surely pass, and sometimes it's the opposite. As you do your research, study this thread as well:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=720134

As non-members, you may have to pay a bit more than the "average" resale price. The purchase price is the smallest part of the cost during the whole DVC time period, the yearly maintenance fees/taxes dwarf the initial investment in the long run. If prices continue to rise, the price you pay today, even if not the lowest price it could have been could be looking good in 5 years. We bought into BWV in 2003, and we paid $74, it was Magical Beginnings, right from Disney. $74 for BWV looks good now!

Bobbi

 

[Didney Daddy]

To address the "fun" issue; it is simply a blast. Not to dismiss your financial questions or concerns but merely a qualitative assesment. If your family loves all things Disney, staying on property at these wonderful resorts is the way to go. Checking out of the hotel with no charge other than your charges at the parks is fantastic.

DVC is about prepaid vacations and giving you reasonable assurance you can get the location you want if you can plan ahead. Good luck,

 

[robinb]

I'll take a crack at your questions ...

First, I am asking for everyones opinions on how this has been good for you; fun and financially.

We bought both of our resorts on the resale market. We paid cash for one and out the other on a HEL which we paid off quickly. We originally bought at OKW and then bought another contract at BWV so we could stay there over New Year's Eve using the 11 month window. We love OKW for the laid back atmosphere and we love BWV for the proximity of MGM and Epcot. The maintenance fees are high and we save throughout the year so we can make a one-time payment on our Disney credit card to get points.

Second, I am very interested in WL, but I heard people complain how far away the villas are from anything. I want to stay there at Christmas and have heard that the only way really to do this is to make it your home resort - as Christmas is the most popular (booking 11 mo in advance verse 7 mo in advance). Having said that, what does everyone think about this resort, as compared to the others?

I love the VWL! I don't think the villas are too far away from the rest of the resort. We usually use the villas back door to the quiet pool and then around the lodge to get to the main pool or the boats to the MK. The bus stops to the other parks are closer to the villas than to the lodge. The restaurants are a little bit of a walk, though.

I think you're about the 11 month window and Christmas. VWL is the smallest DVC resort and fills up quickly during the busy times (early December, late December, Spring Break, etc). If you really want to stay there during those times you need to own there.

Third, can this be purchased through Disney and do they discount?

Sorry, no discount. You *may* be able to purchase through Disney at full price, but I'm not up on new buyers and sold out resorts.

Fourth, what is a good rate to pay and do you think the price will go down, if they discount SSR?

Resales at the Timeshare Store for VWL appears to be in the mid-$80's per point plus closing costs: http://www.dvc-resales.com/dvclisting.cfm

Fifth and last - I still don't understand if there is any importants on the month for your use year??? Do you have to bank months before the end of your use year or can you do it the last month?

You must bank no fewer than 3 months before the start of your next use year. The most important thing about a use year for me is the correlation between when I get my points v/s when I usually use them:

* If I receive my points right before I usually use them then if something happens and my plans fall through at the last minute I still have time to bank or rent those points before they expire. Example: Use Year of September, vacation in December. I have 8 months to use or rent those points.

* If I usually vacation right before I receive my points and something happens at the last minute and I have to cancel then I am left with points that will expire soon. Example: Use Year of February, vacation in December. I only have 2 months to use or rent those points.

 

[klaubaugh]

C. If I choose an October UY - 150 points comming 10/2006, so on 11/2006 I decide to book 5 days at halloween and 5 days at Christmas 2007 at my home resort come late August 2007 (more than 30 days out), I find out that I can not take the October trip, then I have to use these points before October 2007, or they expire? Im wondering in this case if December or January use year would be better, assuming I booked with current points and non banked.

For example;
It is January 2007 and I have a membership with points. I plan the October vacation and December and I can not make the October and have to cancel, I can rebook that time (assuming I do this 30 days in advance of the Oct trip, and add more days or upgrade room) for December, right?

Am I thinking too much about this?????

January would not be a good use year for any changes to your travel plans - especially December plans and even the October travel plans. Your idea of cancelling October and using those points in December would work - only if there is availability. For instance - you cancel a trip in October (80 points) and plan to use those 80 points to add days/change accomodations to your December trip. Works only IF what you want is available.

If you know you'll travel IN October regularly - then October is the best Use Year for you. BUT if your plans change 5-10-15 years from now and August becomes your best travel time, then October isn't so good.

We analyzed the Use Year thing a lot and finally decided it isn't that big of a deal. We have gone in December, April, May, August, and November. When you vary your travel - you're just grabbing at straws. You mention - Halloween and Christmas - good Use Year is October. If it changes...well, then maybe not such a good Use Year.

Besides the Use Year thing - we LOVE our DVC purchase.

 

[LisaS]

Thank you,
I have looked at all the prices and they are all over the board.

Have you ever stood in line at the airport and found out that someone got a significantly better deal on their airfare than you..........hmmmm....then you think to yourself if you had just researched it better, and for a breif moment you feel a bit dumb....because you are smart enough, you should have gotten that deal too!! Then you get on the flight, get to Disney and forget about it.. Well sort of, because I still remember it.

So, I am doing my research now and I want to make sure I don't have buyers remorse over the price I paid.

Anyway that is why I asked, thank you for your input.

The biggest factor in the price you will have to pay is ROFR. If you negotiate a rock bottom price with the seller, you greatly increase the chances that Disney will step in and take the contract from you. So there are no great deals in terms of price, but there are in terms of the number of points available. Often, there is only a small price difference between a stripped contract (no current-year points and next year's points were borrowed and used as well) and a contract with a lot of points (all current-year points, all of next year's points and maybe some banked points from the previous year).

Study the latest chart (on the last or second to last page of the ROFR thread) to get an idea of what you have to pay to purchase a VWL contract (or whatever resort you prefer) to pass ROFR. There was a recent $3/price increase when buying from Disney and we're only just starting to see that reflected in ROFR prices so look most carefully at very recent transactions. Then monitor TTS's listings regularly to look for contracts with your desired Use Year(s) to try to catch one that has as many points available as possible. The more points a contract has available, the faster it is going to be snapped up.

Good luck!

 

[LisaS]

C. If I choose an October UY - 150 points comming 10/2006, so on 11/2006 I decide to book 5 days at halloween and 5 days at Christmas 2007 at my home resort

come late August 2007 (more than 30 days out), I find out that I can not take the October trip, then I have to use these points before October 2007, or they expire?

If you had an Oct UY and you booked a trip for next Halloween (end of October 2007), that trip would occur in your 2007 Use Year (Oct 1, 2007 to Sep 30, 2008). So you would use 2007 UY points for that reservation and/or banked 2006 UY points. If you cancel the trip 31 days or more in advance, the points are returned to your account. Any 2007 UY points do not expire until Nov 30, 2008 so you would have a whole year to use them for something else. Your 100% banking deadline for those '07UY points would be Mar 31, 2008, so again you would have lots of time to book another trip using those points or bank them into your 2008 Use Year. Any banked 2006UY points that you used for that Oct '07 trip could not be banked a second time so they would expire on Sep 30, 2008, but again that would be a year away so you would have lots of time to do something else with those points.

Im wondering in this case if December or January use year would be better, assuming I booked with current points and non banked.

For example;
It is January 2007 and I have a membership with points. I plan the October vacation and December and I can not make the October and have to cancel, I can rebook that time (assuming I do this 30 days in advance of the Oct trip, and add more days or upgrade room) for December, right?

In this scenario with a Dec UY (there is no January UY), if you cancel an Oct '07 trip at least 31 days in advance your points are returned to your account. With a Dec UY, those points expire on Nov 30, 2007 so you have 2 months to use them before they expire and you cannot bank any of the points because you are past all of your banking deadlines. You cannot use them to extend your December trip because, with a Dec UY the points expire on Nov 30th so the 2006UY points are not valid for travel dates in Dec '07. (Not to mention that December is the busiest month for DVC so it is extremely unlikely that you could extend a Dec trip on such short notice anyway).

So in general you want a UY that is just BEFORE your regular travel dates. The worst UY is one that is just AFTER your regular travel dates. An Oct UY would be perfect for you based on your current travel plans but will your plans change in the future? And again, this only really matters if you expect you might have to cancel your plans on short notice.

Hope this helps!