DVC "Seasons"

[rg35]

It is mentioned a lot on here in other contexts, but I'm wondering if 5 DVC "seasons" still makes sense.

Initially I can understand that these were probably implemented and aligned with the historical "busy" times at WDW. Some of that still makes sense, like Christmas and Spring/Easter break.

But we now know that the fall is a very busy season for DVC because of various events like food and wine and other things. However a lot of those weeks still fall in the lowest point "adventure" and "choice" seasons.

Do folks think it still makes sense to have these "legacy" seasons like choice and adventure, or would it make sense to consolidate or equalize points across those two and dream/magic seasons?

 

[chalee94]

Part of what makes the fall appealing to owners is the low point costs.

But with Fall Frenzy seeming to get busier every year around the 7 month window, none of us will be that surprised if they adjust the point charts up a bit.

Unless there are periods where demand is super low (HHI in Jan and Feb might be over priced but not sure about onsite), not sure where they would be most likely to reduce point costs to "pay" for increases in the fall.

 

[rg35]

Unless there are periods where demand is super low (HHI in Jan and Feb might be over priced but not sure about onsite), not sure where they would be most likely to reduce point costs to "pay" for increases in the fall.

My thinking is that you'd equalize adventure and choice with the next two up

So say a studio during Adv. and Choice is 10 points and the next two seasons it's 14 points, you just make both 12 points.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Spring and summer are not the super busy seasons that they were expected to be - especially summer. Those would be the time frames I'd look at to shift points from.

 

[BillPA]

I hope they don't start fooling with the points again. If people would buy where they want to stay we would not have the 7 month crazy times.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I hope they don't start fooling with the points again. If people would buy where they want to stay we would not have the 7 month crazy times.

I don't think, nor do I think DVC would ever think, that points needed to be reallocated because of the 7 month window.

But it's getting a little crazy for a lot more times at the 11 month window during the Fall Frenzy. Used to be the first week of December and sometimes the second week. Now it's Oct, Nov and the first two weeks of December that you can run across rooms that are taken within the first few hours - or definitely first day or two of the 11 month window. And it's not just the concierge and value studios at AKV.

 

[BillPA]

I don't think is so much the points, but the great weather and moderate crowds.

 

[Bing Showei]

I don't think is so much the points, but the great weather and moderate crowds.

All the more reason why there should be some consideration of reallocation. The idea behind the low point costs in the fall and F&W was to redistribute crowds to "low season," but with reports of thinned out crowds in the dead of summer, it seems the pendulum has swung the other way with park volume and wait times in Fall and early December appearing to outpace traditionally busy summer months.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney came up with seasons to even out attendance. What they did years ago, doesn't make sense today. Changing will create a mess for owners and unless Disney sees a money making reason to make a change, they will keep it as is.

Bill

 

[zavandor]

Disney came up with seasons to even out attendance. What they did years ago, doesn't make sense today. Changing will create a mess for owners and unless Disney sees a money making reason to make a change, they will keep it as is.

Bill

Unfortunately I agree.
They've just made value rooms at AKV cheaper, they have reasons to trigger a reallocation obscure to us. Why reallocate the treehouse villas and not BWV or BLT standard?

 

[Matty B13]

I'm on the fence if we would like a point reallocation, because we go in February and April, and just this April I was able to switch out of my home resort and get a 2 bedroom a BCV. If they lower the spring points more people might start going then, but I wonder how many people would stop going to the F&W festival if the points for the rooms increased by a few.

 

[jarestel]

I may be mistaken but I'm thinking that DVC has a responsibility to the membership to continually monitor occupancy and make adjustments as needed. That's what happened when the weekend points decreased and the weekday points increased some years back. So if they have data that suggests reallocation is necessary, they will probably do just that at some point. Along the same lines, I have concerns that the bungalows and cabins allow DVC to oversell points at those resorts since most aren't buying enough points to stay in cabins and bungalows and those points will be used for cheaper room types. Given that, a reallocation of points decreasing bungalow and cabin points and increasing the other categories is probably somewhere on the horizon after CCV sells out.

 

[Bing Showei]

I may be mistaken but I'm thinking that DVC has a responsibility to the membership to continually monitor occupancy and make adjustments as needed. That's what happened when the weekend points decreased and the weekday points increased some years back. So if they have data that suggests reallocation is necessary, they will probably do just that at some point. Along the same lines, I have concerns that the bungalows and cabins allow DVC to oversell points at those resorts since most aren't buying enough points to stay in cabins and bungalows and those points will be used for cheaper room types. Given that, a reallocation of points decreasing bungalow and cabin points and increasing the other categories is probably somewhere on the horizon after CCV sells out.

Perhaps this is a bit cynical, but I have little faith in a for-profit, publicly-traded corporation exercising their fiduciary responsibilities when it is in direct conflict with their financial interest.

As I see it, DVC is a putty filler that covers the gaps in cash-paying reservations. As a captive audience, we serve to fill the gaps in attendance. As long as cash payers continue to attend during “high season” it matters little that it’s so hard for us to book in the fall.

If at some point the data crunchers conclude that people are being shut out and that spreading out the fall crowd a little will net more revenue, sure, there may be a rebalance. But it’s not going to be because members are hurting to book at their home resort at 11-months. They already have our money.

 

[lovin'fl]

Disney came up with seasons to even out attendance. What they did years ago, doesn't make sense today. Changing will create a mess for owners and unless Disney sees a money making reason to make a change, they will keep it as is.

Bill

This is likely true.

I do think the seasons aren't fitting now and they need to be tweaked but I agree with Bill that they won't bother. It doesn't make them more or less money so not an interest to them. Unless the young families, who are new buyers, don't buy because they need to travel in summer and that takes too many points. Then DVD might want to adjust so summer points are lower.

 

[chalee94]

As I see it, DVC is a putty filler that covers the gaps in cash-paying reservations. As a captive audience, we serve to fill the gaps in attendance. As long as cash payers continue to attend during “high season” it matters little that it’s so hard for us to book in the fall.

The points are still getting used across all seasons, so far as we know. The issues are only with booking demand.

If resorts are actually empty in May (or February for HHI), as they anecdotally were back in the days of high weekend point costs, then DVC would be obligated to adjust the point charts IMO.

 

[BillPA]

never mind

 

[Chuck S]

My thinking is that you'd equalize adventure and choice with the next two up

So say a studio during Adv. and Choice is 10 points and the next two seasons it's 14 points, you just make both 12 points.

It isn't quite as simple as adding 2 points here and taking 2 points from elsewhere, even with studios. The entire formula for the entire resort has to be considered, including the number of days in each season. Say one season is 30 days long, and another is 60 days long, you can't reduce a 30 day season by 2 points and then increase a longer season by 2 points. The entire number of points at the resort has to remain stable and constant, lest Disney illegally change the points into a "oversold" situation. The seasons, looking at the system overall, seem pretty reasonable. Travel still naturally increases in the summer, especially mid-June when most of the schools nationwide let out for the summer. And the winter months of December and January that aren't in the holidays can be very nice weather or very, very cold weather. With the Florida humidity, a 40 degree day in Florida can feel like a 20 degree day in a drier climate. October has increased in attendance over the years, mostly because of the Halloween party. WHat seems to have upped demand for DVC, especially studios, is the number of people with smaller contracts these days. The system as originally designed for OKW, required a 230 point minimum initial contract, thus assuming most families would stay for a week and use a one bedroom, or stay two weeks in a studio...or longer. It was really more like a mini-vacation home with the longer stays. The small contracts puts demand on studios, and owners consider DVC just a way to get a nice room at a low cost for that 4 day studio vacation...again increasing demand.

 

[kboo]

I'm on the fence if we would like a point reallocation, because we go in February and April, and just this April I was able to switch out of my home resort and get a 2 bedroom a BCV. If they lower the spring points more people might start going then, but I wonder how many people would stop going to the F&W festival if the points for the rooms increased by a few.

I agree. We originally bought to travel in late August bleeding into early September, and each time we've been in August, we've had low crowds. I don't mind that!

 

[crisi]

Personally, I think part of the reason for Fall Frenzy is that its Fall Frenzy. Its a self fulfilling cyclic prophecy that gets worse every year as more members learn they have to book earlier than they tried last year, causing the next year for owners to book even earlier than they did last year, etc. And then you have the "we might want to take a F&W trip, but we won't know for another six months, we'd better make a reservation just in case" folks, and the increased emphasis on home resorts as the older resorts resell into the hands of people who paid a premium just so they could stay at an Epcot resort over F&W, which makes it really hard if you own anywhere else to stay at an Epcot resort - or a monorail resort - during that time of year, which pushes people to book their SSR/VAKL rooms at home "just in case."

Low points help create the demand, but the rush is sustained by the hype. And the demand is more than just the point cost - the weather is generally awesome at that time of year, the event calendar is full - and not just F&W but the Halloween Party and Christmas Party, two marathon weekends during the hype season, the D23 convention, the DVC annual meeting, Pop Warner-as well as non-Disney events like Jersey Week and Minnesota's MEA weekend.

If it were just about the point cost, late January and September would be busy - (even though F&W now starts August 30th - the DVC crowds haven't yet moved into September - habit - and its still hot and hurricaney)

And as Chuck said, the real issue is the studios - and most of the older resorts weren't built with "everyone will want to stay in studios" in mind. Disney made that issue worse with the Murphy beds in the studios and low minimum buy ins. Plus the 25 point add on to get direct benefits meant a lot of people own 25 points at a resort that isn't their primary resort - they can't do a lot with those points other than book studios.

 

[Matty B13]

I agree. We originally bought to travel in late August bleeding into early September, and each time we've been in August, we've had low crowds. I don't mind that!

I wish I could handle the heat in August/September, but I'm pretty sure I would melt in those temperatures.

We just went the 2nd/3rd week this April and we thought the crowds weren't all that bad, even on the weekend. We rode the Barnstormer at MK 10 times one morning before we had to wait more than a few minutes to get on, and we didn't get to the park until after rope drop.