DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[Muushka]

I deleted my own post.

 

[keys2kingdom]

This thread has almost 20,000 hits in 8 days!!

That's INCREDIBLE!!

now back on topic.....

 

[tmt martins]

This thread has almost 20,000 hits in 8 days!!

That's INCREDIBLE!!

now back on topic.....

Jay Where's Jay

 

[minnie61650]

I got curious and did a little more sleuthing on our friend Mushpurple...

There is an eBay user called "mushpurple1" who has, on occasion, bought up DVC sales, judging by the feedback comments:
"Enjoy your wonderful stay at DISNEY OLD KEY WEST Resort"
"Enjoy your Disney vacation!"
"Pleasure to do business with Enjoy your vacation" (twice, bought two from the same buyer)
"PERFECT EBAY TRANSACTION--THANK YOU--ENJOY YOUR TRIP"

Looks like she may use her own accounts to bump an auction if she's not getting what she wants, and even give herself good feedback:
"Great Transaction! Past Pay and Good Communication!" -Seller: smw (she seems to have a thing for typos, as well)

Google's cache includes one of the older SMW auctions - surprise surprise! Mushpurple1 bought it! (Are we still supposed to believe that they've not the same person?) Thanks Google! Their cache also has some of the original mushpurple1 Disboard postings that she edited, including the infamous "We were going to be a smaller group, but not we are a larger one" (sic) one. (What kind of large group needs more than 18,000 points?!?!?!?)

I'm pretty sure that this type of shill bidding is against eBay rules. I wonder if anyone's brought it to their attention...

Mushpurple1 bought locations as recently as April, doing a Buy It Now on a Beach Club stay during Easter. Which was sold by someone with only 15 feedback who appears to be selling several DVC stays... the Squaretrade number is slightly different than smw's but maybe that's the number of the "family children trust"? The style of the auction is pretty similar, especially the large-font, multicolored, underlined, centered opening text. However, Squaretrade indicates that that person is "Armen Kasabian" so who knows?

SMW's descriptions linked to her feedback... guess that'll have to be changed now that it's private! And how will potential bidders like looking at completed auctions and seeing descriptions like "bite me"? And I think someone already pointed out that her descriptions still claim that the renter can call MS. It looks like the recent auctions that she wasn't able to change the text on have a private buy-it-now, so we can't see just what userid those were. (That may be a side-effect of having private feedback?)

Then there's the TripAdvisor comment... "I am proud to say that I purchased our rental from a lady on ebay. The rates for this room at our time of stay would of been about $1200-1500, but I only paid $500! What a bargain. I am very pleased. If you are interested, on ebay her seller name is SMW." Legit? Maybe. A shill? Maybe!

The only other juicy bit I could find was her trying to sell points for $12 a year ago on Talk About Disney.

It'll be interesting to see what happens next. Will she go back on eBay, maybe under a new name? Will she attempt to unload the points? We'll probably never get the full story... but over $02,000 in monthly maintainence fees is pretty hefty! She'll have to do something quickly or that "family children trust" will empty out pretty quick!

Seriously - the whole transfers thing really is a separate issue. With that many points, it's only a drop in the bucket if they grab a small number of points for $9 and resell them at a higher cost. The big bucks come from those enormous BCV and BWV point piles, and that's a trickier nut for Disney to crack. Do you limit the number of concurrent reservations? If so, how many? They don't want to impact the legitimate DVC owner who is planning a big family gathering at VWL and reserves a one-bedroom and three studios for the same busy week...

I think the only really safe option for DVC is to do it on a case-by-case basis, and start individually identifying the problem renters (and I don't think anyone would argue that the Welchslers, with their underhanded tactics, are problem renters), and go after them one by one, rather than trying to make a rule change.

Thanks for sharing the info.
Great job with the sleuthing!

 

[jdg345]

Overall we agree on much of the information. DVD's intent was to make money for Disney plain and simple. Much of the rest of the legal wording was required by the state to be included in the POS in one form or another. I know many here on DIS try to read too much into some of the wording but those that understand the workings of the state of FL laws and timeshares in general, know better how to understand the overall picture. Here is a quote from the POS that many would point to.

Many would like to think this is a prohibition against renting, etc. All it is is a CYA section so that DVD can say they didn't promise you that a profit could be made or that you'd even be successful selling or renting.

And the following
It then goes on to include the "commercial renter" clause we've talked about over the years. To me this is a definition of personal use which includes leasing as personal use.

Yup ... I think we pretty much agree on most of the points. The ending quote is interesting and your explanation of the meanings does make sense.

I think Disney left a lot of it open to interpretation. The ambiguity gives them greater leverage as far as their options imo.

 

[rigsby25]

I think I saw in another thread that someone actually talked to a Disney lawyer and that the lawyer said Disney doesn't care if you rent your own points, but they were looking for more points than you own being in your account. If some one owns 18,000 points and they rent out 18,000 points, it seems to me then, that Disney really doesn't care. If someone owns 18,000 points and have more than that, then the points were transferred in and that's what Disney is against at least for now. Anyone having more points than they own.

 

[minnie61650]

I think I saw in another thread that someone actually talked to a Disney lawyer and that the lawyer said Disney doesn't care if you rent your own points, but they were looking for more points than you own being in your account. If some one owns 18,000 points and they rent out 18,000 points, it seems to me then, that Disney really doesn't care. If someone owns 18,000 points and have more than that, then the points were transferred in and that's what Disney is against at least for now. Anyone having more points than they own.

They said they talked to someone at DVC legal.
The gentleman whom they talked to said he did not know much about Point
"morphng".
I would be inclined to think the gentleman was not a Disney lawyer, maybe he was a paralegal.
Do you know how much a lawyer charges per minute on a phone call?

JMHO

 

[Anjelica]

They said they talked to someone at DVC legal.
The gentleman whom they talked to said he did not know much about Point
"morphng".
I would be inclined to think the gentleman was not a Disney lawyer, maybe he was a paralegal.
Do you know how much a lawyer charges per minute on a phone call?

JMHO

We have to understand that we are getting this as second hand. If its not in writing and official from Disney we really don't know whether someone talked to someone, whether they got the correct/official verbiage or whether something was lost in translation (this could be tone, etc.).

I don't know much about the poster who stated they talked to Disney Legal so I can't speak to whether they did or didn't speak to a lawyer or if they did, whether anything was lost in "translation".

I do wish though, for users who get on these threads, we could know their true intentions and their past habits of renting or not - it helps me to understand someones background to understand their intentions (whether out of kindness, obligation or manipulation).

 

[minnie61650]

We have to understand that we are getting this as second hand. If its not in writing and official from Disney we really don't know whether someone talked to someone, whether they got the correct/official verbiage or whether something was lost in translation (this could be tone, etc.).

I don't know much about the poster who stated they talked to Disney Legal so I can't speak to whether they did or didn't speak to a lawyer or if they did, whether anything was lost in "translation".

I do wish though, for users who get on these threads, we could know their true intentions and their past habits of renting or not - it helps me to understand someones background to understand their intentions (whether out of kindness, obligation or manipulation).

ITA

 

[jennybobenny]

Not sure if the link will work. I was fishing around ebay and came across the last 30 days worth of smw's completed auctions. It's amusing to see all the edited titles (asdfasdfasdf, adlskfjh, STD, hare, etc). I guess she wanted to make sure nothing would come up with a search using keyword 'disney'.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...erid=smw&include=0&rows=50&sort=3&completed=1

 

[minnie61650]

Not sure if the link will work. I was fishing around ebay and came across the last 30 days worth of smw's completed auctions. It's amusing to see all the edited titles (asdfasdfasdf, adlskfjh, STD, hare, etc). I guess she wanted to make sure nothing would come up with a search using keyword 'disney'.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...erid=smw&include=0&rows=50&sort=3&completed=1

Another sleuth!
Great job.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[jennybobenny]

Here's the completed auction list (past 30 days) for 'BoardwalkMagic'.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...alkmagic&include=0&rows=50&sort=3&completed=1

What gets me about these auctions is they're for specific dates - Columbus Day weekend, New Years Eve, etc. And since there are multiple listings for the same time period, the "...have the reservation but can't use it..." excuse doesn't fly.

Just in case the link doesn't work (or if it suddenly gets edited) here's a list:
(notice the auctions that ended early on August 21st - the same day 'smw' ended hers)

$895.00 DISNEY BEACH CLUB VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
Sold Out 9/17 to 9/22 Disney price $1,700 Walk to EPCOT Private (*)
260011103949 Jul-20-06 Jul-30-06 20:08:16 PDT $795.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
8/27 to 9/1 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!!!!! Private (*)
260015737473 Aug-01-06 Aug-03-06 11:03:19 PDT $830.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
12/10 to 12/15 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!! Private (*)
260015731755 Aug-01-06 Aug-07-06 00:44:08 PDT $925.00 DISNEY BEACH CLUB VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
Thanksgiving 11/19 to 11/24 Disney rate $1800 EPCOT!!!! Private (*)
260014952197 Jul-30-06 Aug-07-06 00:45:08 PDT $795.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
9/10 to 9/15 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!!!! Private (*)
260014950703 Jul-30-06 Aug-09-06 15:52:30 PDT $895.00 DISNEY BEACH CLUB VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
Sold Out 9/17 to 9/22 Disney price $1,700 Walk to EPCOT Private (*)
260015727424 Aug-01-06 Aug-11-06 17:09:26 PDT $795.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
10/1 to 10/6 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!!!! Private (*)
260015734994 Aug-01-06 Aug-11-06 17:23:59 PDT $830.00 DISNEY WILDERNESS LODGE Villas Timeshare rental Orlando
October 8 to 13 Shuttle Boat to Disney's MAGIC KINGDOM Private (*)
260015745013 Aug-01-06 Aug-11-06 17:43:02 PDT $850.00 DISNEY's SARATOGA SPRINGS Timeshare Rental Orlando
SOLD OUT NEW YEARS boat to DOWNTOWN DISNEY/PLEASURE ISL Private (*)
260019732605 Aug-11-06 Aug-21-06 11:17:04 PDT $795.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
10/1 to 10/6 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!!!! Private (*)
260019735549 Aug-11-06 Aug-21-06 17:25:15 PDT $830.00 DISNEY WILDERNESS LODGE Villas Timeshare rental Orlando
October 8 to 13 Shuttle Boat to Disney's MAGIC KINGDOM Private (*)
260019748379 Aug-11-06 Aug-21-06 18:18:15 PDT $850.00 DISNEY's SARATOGA SPRINGS Timeshare Rental Orlando
SOLD OUT NEW YEARS boat to DOWNTOWN DISNEY/PLEASURE ISL Private (*)

 

[minnie61650]

I think she has some connection to that website. There are posts by both Mush and Arlene on the Budget board here on the DIS encouraging people to check out that new website: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=911780&referrerid=93883 claiming they just "stumbled across it". About one third of the home page for that website consists of a large ad for Arlene's vacation home rental business.

here is the link to the cached version of the thread you posted.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...+mushpurple&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5&ie=UTF-8

 

[jennybobenny]

Ok, this is my last one, I promise.

Wonder why you can't get a reservation for Halloween?

Disdvcer's 30 day completed and current ebay auction listing:

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...disdvcer&include=0&rows=50&sort=3&completed=1

And, just in case that link doesn't work:

130008702544 Jul-18-06 Jul-28-06 17:48:11 PDT $1,325.00 Disney Boardwalk Timeshare Rental Studio Halloween Oct
SAVE up to $525 SOLD-OUT-DATES ! ALSO JULY dates No Bids (*)
130008702722 Jul-18-06 Jul-28-06 17:49:13 PDT $2,690.00 Disney Old Key West Vacation Timeshare 2-BR 10/29-11/3
Sold Out Halloween Week! SAVE $$$ & Can get 10/28-11/5 No Bids (*)
130009470088 Jul-20-06 Jul-30-06 22:19:58 PDT $1,200.00 Disney Beach Club Timeshare Vacation Rental Studio Sept
Food & Wine OTHER-SOLD-OUT-DATES Aug - Dec & 8/6-11 No Bids (*)
130011940341 Jul-29-06 Aug-08-06 10:29:54 PDT $1,325.00 Disney Boardwalk Timeshare Rental Studio Halloween Oct
SAVE up to $525 SOLD-OUT-DATES ! ALSO JULY dates No Bids (*)
130011940605 Jul-29-06 Aug-08-06 10:31:02 PDT $2,690.00 Disney Old Key West Vacation Timeshare 2-BR 10/29-11/3
Sold Out Halloween Week! SAVE $$$ & Can get 10/28-11/5 No Bids (*)
130012796818 Aug-01-06 Aug-10-06 08:25:53 PDT $1,065.00 Disney Beach Club Timeshare Vacation Rental Studio Aug
8/13-18 also Food & Wine & OTHER-SOLD-OUT-DATES !!! bostonsteveskiing( 1 ) (*)
130012526502 Jul-31-06 Aug-10-06 10:53:23 PDT $1,200.00 Disney Beach Club Timeshare Vacation Rental Studio Sept
Food & Wine OTHER-SOLD-OUT-DATES No Bids (*)
130015148245 Aug-08-06 Aug-18-06 10:32:09 PDT $1,325.00 Disney Boardwalk Timeshare Rental Studio Halloween Oct
SAVE up to $525 SOLD-OUT-DATES !! Other Dates Also !!! No Bids (*)
130015148479 Aug-08-06 Aug-18-06 10:32:54 PDT $2,690.00 Disney Old Key West Vacation Timeshare 2-BR 10/29-11/3
Sold Out Halloween Week! SAVE $$$ & Can get 10/28-11/5 No Bids (*)
130016279522 Aug-11-06 Aug-21-06 12:20:02 PDT $1,200.00 Disney Beach Club Timeshare Vacation Rental Studio Sept
Food & Wine OTHER-SOLD-OUT-DATES No Bids (*)
130019000324 Aug-20-06 Aug-30-06 10:31:58 PDT $2,690.00 Disney Old Key West Vacation Timeshare 2-BR 10/29-11/3
Sold Out Halloween Week! SAVE $$$ & Can get 10/28-11/5 No Bids Yet
130019000633 Aug-20-06 Aug-30-06 10:32:48 PDT $1,325.00 Disney Boardwalk Timeshare Rental Studio Halloween Oct
SAVE up to $525 SOLD-OUT-DATES !! Other Dates Also !!! No Bids Yet

Note - I added the red highlights

 

[minnie61650]

Here's the completed auction list (past 30 days) for 'BoardwalkMagic'.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...alkmagic&include=0&rows=50&sort=3&completed=1

What gets me about these auctions is they're for specific dates - Columbus Day weekend, New Years Eve, etc. And since there are multiple listings for the same time period, so the "...have the reservation but can't use it..." excuse doesn't fly.

Just in case the link doesn't work (or if it suddenly gets edited) here's a list:
(notice the auctions that ended early on August 21st - the same day 'smw' ended hers)

$895.00 DISNEY BEACH CLUB VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
Sold Out 9/17 to 9/22 Disney price $1,700 Walk to EPCOT Private (*)
260011103949 Jul-20-06 Jul-30-06 20:08:16 PDT $795.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
8/27 to 9/1 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!!!!! Private (*)
260015737473 Aug-01-06 Aug-03-06 11:03:19 PDT $830.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
12/10 to 12/15 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!! Private (*)
260015731755 Aug-01-06 Aug-07-06 00:44:08 PDT $925.00 DISNEY BEACH CLUB VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
Thanksgiving 11/19 to 11/24 Disney rate $1800 EPCOT!!!! Private (*)
260014952197 Jul-30-06 Aug-07-06 00:45:08 PDT $795.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
9/10 to 9/15 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!!!! Private (*)
260014950703 Jul-30-06 Aug-09-06 15:52:30 PDT $895.00 DISNEY BEACH CLUB VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
Sold Out 9/17 to 9/22 Disney price $1,700 Walk to EPCOT Private (*)
260015727424 Aug-01-06 Aug-11-06 17:09:26 PDT $795.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
10/1 to 10/6 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!!!! Private (*)
260015734994 Aug-01-06 Aug-11-06 17:23:59 PDT $830.00 DISNEY WILDERNESS LODGE Villas Timeshare rental Orlando
October 8 to 13 Shuttle Boat to Disney's MAGIC KINGDOM Private (*)
260015745013 Aug-01-06 Aug-11-06 17:43:02 PDT $850.00 DISNEY's SARATOGA SPRINGS Timeshare Rental Orlando
SOLD OUT NEW YEARS boat to DOWNTOWN DISNEY/PLEASURE ISL Private (*)
260019732605 Aug-11-06 Aug-21-06 11:17:04 PDT $795.00 DISNEY BOARDWALK VILLAS timeshare rental ORLANDO
10/1 to 10/6 Shuttle boats to EPCOT and MGM Studios!!!! Private (*)
260019735549 Aug-11-06 Aug-21-06 17:25:15 PDT $830.00 DISNEY WILDERNESS LODGE Villas Timeshare rental Orlando
October 8 to 13 Shuttle Boat to Disney's MAGIC KINGDOM Private (*)
260019748379 Aug-11-06 Aug-21-06 18:18:15 PDT $850.00 DISNEY's SARATOGA SPRINGS Timeshare Rental Orlando
SOLD OUT NEW YEARS boat to DOWNTOWN DISNEY/PLEASURE ISL Private (*)

Thanks for the info.
I was watching a few of those auctions the last couple of days.
Great detective work!

 

[Longhairbear]

On those listings from SMW, if you click on the listing # , there is a Square Trade trip completed number, and something about being a registered travel agent. The one I looked at had a price of one dollar, under buy it now. Does the Square Trade reference number mean the trip was completed, to prove the claim of being an actual travel agent?

 

[minnie61650]

On those listings from SMW, if you click on the listing # , there is a Square Trade trip completed number, and something about being a registered travel agent. The one I looked at had a price of one dollar, under buy it now. Does the Square Trade reference number mean the trip was completed, to prove the claim of being an actual travel agent?

She is a registered travel agent?

Great detective work!

Most travel agents book home away from home properties through CRO instead of booking using DVC points.

I do not know but I have a feeling both Disney and DVC will frown upon this even if the points she rented out were her own.

Any comments?

 

[tmt martins]

I just hope you are all reporting this to DVC as well . I've sent a letter snail mail just about the E-bay stuff but this all should be reported via E-mail with all the links and copy included. They can't turn a blind eye to this.

 

[Groucho]

She is a registered travel agent?

Great detective work!

Most travel agents book home away from home properties through CRO instead of booking using DVC points.

I do not know but I have a feeling both Disney and DVC will frown upon this even if the points she rented out were her own.

Any comments?

Apparently the Squaretrade thing is required by eBay if you're going to sell travel stuff there.

However, you DON'T need it to sell in the "other" sections - which is where SMW was advertising. I would guess that either way, it's not a real big deal to get a Squaretrade number - just a little bit of paperwork (or e-paperwork.)

 

[minnie61650]

I think she has some connection to that website. There are posts by both Mush and Arlene on the Budget board here on the DIS encouraging people to check out that new website: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=911780&referrerid=93883 claiming they just "stumbled across it". About one third of the home page for that website consists of a large ad for Arlene's vacation home rental business.

I think she had a big connection with that website.
Last night I was reading a lot of the posts. The user name aswdisney made a lot of the posts. I just tried to log onto that website to explore a little more but "poof" it magically disappeared.

I think she is running scared. She may be in very hot water.