DVC/RCI mystery solved -- NO ripoff! Update, Post #17

[JimMIA]

Are some DVC owners getting only half the advertised use of their points deposited into RCI?

That may seem a bit inflammatory, but it comes from a discussion we're having in another thread about the longevity of DVC points deposited into RCI.

It is one of those arcane little "the devil is in the details" things that could really have a big negative impact on owners with UYs late in the calendar year. In the other thread, Dean posted a quote from the DVC RCI Disclosure statement that says:

An exchange may be requested for the same time period or for a time period that has a comparable exchange value as the Vacation Time deposited. (See Paragraph 9 under Exchange Procedures and Priorities.) The exchange request may be placed at the same time that the Vacation Time is deposited or at any time thereafter, but no later than the end of second calendar year after the date of the deposited Vacation Time.

"Okay, so what?" you say.
Well, that means that if you deposit DVC points into RCI in November 2014, they will expire on December 31, 2015. That is only 13 months from deposit to expiration -- NOT the two years you expect, and not the two years owners of other systems get from RCI.

Not only is that unfair relative to other timeshare systems which use RCI, it is unfair within the DVC owner community because it discriminates heavily against owners with Use Years in the latter part of the calendar year.

Most DVC owners deposit into RCI because they have points expiring, they are beyond their banking deadline, and they can't get a reservation (or can't go on vacation) prior to the end of their UY. So if your UY is late in the calendar year, you are going to get much less use of your points in RCI than another DVC owner with an earlier UY would have.

Example: One DVC owner, approaching the end of their early UY, deposits points into RCI in January 2014. Those points expire 12/31/2015 -- exactly the same date as the example above where the points were deposited in November 2014. One owner gets 2 years; the other gets only 13 months.

Is this for real?
I honestly don't know. I personally think it's either an example of sloppy wording on a DVC Member web page, or a BIG mistake someone made. I can't imagine them knowingly treating owners SO differently. If that passage above means what it says, it is something they should fix.

What can we do?
The first thing is to determine if that quoted passage above actually reflects what happens in real life with RCI deposits.

How do we tell? We need some DISers who have made an RCI deposit to go into their account, check the expiration dates of those deposits, and report back here with their deposit and expiration dates.

If the expiration date is two years from the deposit date, there is no problem -- DVC owners are getting the same two years point usage everyone else gets, and no DVC owner is getting shortchanged relative to other DVC owners.

If the expiration date is the second 12/31 after deposit, somebody's really getting shortchanged -- and that needs to be brought to DVC management's attention.

It would be great if a few of you nice folks with points in RCI would take a look at your accounts and let us know whether this is a real problem, or just some sloppy wording on a website.

TIA.

 

[bwvBound]

Interesting detective work, Jim. Wish I could help -- but I don't have any DVC points deposited with RCI.

 

[JimMIA]

Thanks. I've never deposited DVC points into RCI, so I don't know the answer.

Hopefully, we'll get some real-world feedback from real deposits and actual information about how the system handles them, and we'll be able to tell whether this is a real problem, or just a misstatement.

If it is a real problem, it potentially could have a very negative impact on anyone with a UY after about April.

 

[disneynutz]

Nothing happens by chance with Disney and the DVC. They are well aware of what their contract with RCI says just like they know about all of the negative issues with DVC.

What's important to them from a business sense isn't always the same for the DVC owners. Sometimes we are on the same page, often we aren't.

IMO they don't like us making any trades so they place restrictions, limit inventory and make the point requirements high. To many people were still trading so they started charging a $95 fee. And why are our dues going towards the Buena Vista Trading company when most of us never trade?

Bill

 

[JimMIA]

I'm not so sure there is anything sinister going on with this. It is just incomprehensible to me that DVC would knowingly give one owner a full 2 years to use their points, and another owner only 13 months. If, in fact, that is true, I think it's almost certainly a mistake. But it could be our mistake.

I think it's more likely that there was some sloppy wording on the website, but it's also possible that we are misinterpreting the wording.

The only way to tell is for folks who have actually deposited points into RCI to give us some real-world information about when the points actually expire.

It is pointless to complain when, in truth, we don't know whether we have anything legitimate to complain about.

 

[CarolMN]

I'm not so sure there is anything sinister going on with this. It is just incomprehensible to me that DVC would knowingly give one owner a full 2 years to use their points, and another owner only 13 months. If, in fact, that is true, I think it's almost certainly a mistake. But it could be our mistake.

I think it's more likely that there was some sloppy wording on the website, but it's also possible that we are misinterpreting the wording.

The only way to tell is for folks who have actually deposited points into RCI to give us some real-world information about when the points actually expire.

It is pointless to complain when, in truth, we don't know whether we have anything legitimate to complain about.

I also prefer to believe that there is no "malice aforethought" involved on DVC's part.

I know almost nothing about exchanging other than there is a special group of CMs within MS that deal with them. If one of them were asked when the points would expire if deposited today, wouldn't that answer the question? Or do you have concerns that they do not know for sure, either?

 

[wdrl]

Have you asked DVC? It would seem to me it could be a rather simple question with a rather simple straightforward answer. It might also be better to rely on the official word from Disney instead of what someone thinks they remember from the last time they did an RCI exchange.

I certainly don't know the answer. I'm in the overwhelming majority of DVC Members who have never done an exchange and probably never will.

 

[JimMIA]

Have you asked DVC? It would seem to me it could be a rather simple question with a rather simple straightforward answer.

Yes. The OP in the other thread asked, and was told the points would be valid for two years -- nice straightforward question, nice straightforward answer.

However...contrast that simple answer with the quote Dean posted from the official DVC guidelines for RCI exchanges. It says something very different.

There are TWO contradictory "official words from Disney!" So, who do you believe? An MS CM, or DVC's own guidelines? One of them is wrong.

The real question is not what anyone says or thinks; the real issue is "How does the system actually handle RCI deposits in the real world?"

The only way I know to tell for sure is to look at actual deposits and see whether they expire two years after the deposit date, or the second 12/31 which could be up to an entire year earlier.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm in the overwhelming majority of DVC Members who have never done an exchange and probably never will.

Maybe not, but LOTS of other DVC owners are using RCI.

Based on my own experience exchanging into DVC using Wyndham/RCI (OKW 2 BR Dec 14-21, 2013 snagged 5 months out ) and what I've seen in several forums, DVC is pretty easy to get via RCI. There are people out there on TUG who stay at DVC more often than most DISers, and don't own a single DVC point!

Those exchanges in would not be possible without DVC owners exchanging OUT. Frequent posters here may not be exchanging out, but someone sure is...and in a big way.

 

[Monykalyn]

Will be interesting to see any replies. We are longtime timeshare owners (20+ years-non disney) and our condo belongs to Interval International. Last trip DH and I talked abit about DVC and buying another timeshare-ultimately it would make more sense for us to buy another non disney timeshare that trades into RCI than be limited into what Disney allows vacation club owners to do, especially as we likely wouldn't go to Disney more than once every couple years anyway. Cost wise is much cheaper as well-and I am now wondering (from other threads especially) if there will be even greater availability of non DVC timeshares to trade into DVC that it won't be as difficult as it has sometimes been in the past...

 

[JimMIA]

Will be interesting to see any replies.

Me too! So far, we haven't had any data...just comments.

If one or two owners would take a look at their existing deposits, we could put this whole thing to bed. We would KNOW.

We are longtime timeshare owners (20+ years-non disney) and our condo belongs to Interval International. Last trip DH and I talked abit about DVC and buying another timeshare-ultimately it would make more sense for us to buy another non disney timeshare that trades into RCI than be limited into what Disney allows vacation club owners to do, especially as we likely wouldn't go to Disney more than once every couple years anyway. Cost wise is much cheaper as well-and I am now wondering (from other threads especially) if there will be even greater availability of non DVC timeshares to trade into DVC that it won't be as difficult as it has sometimes been in the past...

Yes.

Seriously, tho. I never encourage anyone to buy anybody's timeshare. But you are experienced timeshare owners, so you know the drill. If you want to pick something up on eBay for nothing that gives you options you don't currently have -- AND trades in RCI -- you will get a couple of things.

One, you will get access to whatever resorts that system owns -- that's the most important thing.

Two, you will get RCI membership which offers some nice benefits above and apart from the exchange options.

For example, Last Calls. Just a couple of months ago, we got a Last Call, for an entire week in a one bedroom, at the Vacation Village at Parkway in Kissimmee for a grand total of $328 including all taxes and fees. Straight cash rental; no "timeshare tour" required. Was it the most luxurious stay I've ever had? No. But for $46.86 per night, it was pretty darn adequate!

And third -- you would be able to exchange into DVC via RCI. It IS pretty easy if you know how exchanges work and make sensible use of RCI's Ongoing Search feature.

Would I buy some timeshare for nothing solely for the purpose of exchanging into DVC? No. I'd keep the money (NOTHING is "for nothing") and rent reservations from an owner.

 

[disneynutz]

Me too! So far, we haven't had any data...just comments.

If one or two owners would take a look at their existing deposits, we could put this whole thing to bed. We would KNOW.Yes.

Seriously, tho. I never encourage anyone to buy anybody's timeshare. But you are experienced timeshare owners, so you know the drill. If you want to pick something up on eBay for nothing that gives you options you don't currently have -- AND trades in RCI -- you will get a couple of things.

One, you will get access to whatever resorts that system owns -- that's the most important thing.

Two, you will get RCI membership which offers some nice benefits above and apart from the exchange options.

For example, Last Calls. Just a couple of months ago, we got a Last Call, for an entire week in a one bedroom, at the Vacation Village at Parkway in Kissimmee for a grand total of $328 including all taxes and fees. Straight cash rental; no "timeshare tour" required. Was it the most luxurious stay I've ever had? No. But for $46.86 per night, it was pretty darn adequate!

And third -- you would be able to exchange into DVC via RCI. It IS pretty easy if you know how exchanges work and make sensible use of RCI's Ongoing Search feature.

Would I buy some timeshare for nothing solely for the purpose of exchanging into DVC? No. I'd keep the money (NOTHING is "for nothing") and rent reservations from an owner.

I don't get why this has upset you so much, as I have posted there are many things about DVC that isn't fair/correct/Disney like.

How is this any different, whether they were aware of it or not? If they are aware, they won't admit it and if they weren't, they aren't doing their job and probably won't change it.

Bill

 

[JimMIA]

I don't get why this has upset you so much, as I have posted there are many things about DVC that isn't fair/correct/Disney like.

How is this any different, whether they were aware of it or not? If they are aware, they won't admit it and if they weren't, they aren't doing their job and probably won't change it.

Bill

I'm not upset, Bill.

I'd just like to know...and considering the pretty widespread use of RCI by DVCers (from what we see by the exchanges easily coming IN), I think it's relevant to know whether two years means two years or maybe only one.

Frankly, my guess is that it's just sloppy wording. No malicious intent or incompetence, just a simple mistake that can be easily corrected by proofreading and editing without admitting any failures.

Some of us always want to paint the world with pixie dust, and some of us always want to paint the Mouse as a Rat. My best guess is this situation is none of the above.

But we will not know that until someone takes the time to look up their deposit and let us know what the real answer is.

Until then, what you and I think is irrelevant.

 

[Monykalyn]

Me too! So far, we haven't had any data...just comments.

If one or two owners would take a look at their existing deposits, we could put this whole thing to bed. We would KNOW.Yes.

Seriously, tho. I never encourage anyone to buy anybody's timeshare. But you are experienced timeshare owners, so you know the drill. If you want to pick something up on eBay for nothing that gives you options you don't currently have -- AND trades in RCI -- you will get a couple of things.

One, you will get access to whatever resorts that system owns -- that's the most important thing.

Two, you will get RCI membership which offers some nice benefits above and apart from the exchange options.

For example, Last Calls. Just a couple of months ago, we got a Last Call, for an entire week in a one bedroom, at the Vacation Village at Parkway in Kissimmee for a grand total of $328 including all taxes and fees. Straight cash rental; no "timeshare tour" required. Was it the most luxurious stay I've ever had? No. But for $46.86 per night, it was pretty darn adequate!

And third -- you would be able to exchange into DVC via RCI. It IS pretty easy if you know how exchanges work and make sensible use of RCI's Ongoing Search feature.

Would I buy some timeshare for nothing solely for the purpose of exchanging into DVC? No. I'd keep the money (NOTHING is "for nothing") and rent reservations from an owner.

Good points and I agree! A second timeshare would just give us more options We own at Lake of the Ozarks and my FIL also has several weeks at different resorts there- both RCI and II. I know there are some foreclosures at a fraction of cost of buying direct in the resort we are looking at. FWIW our timeshare has some of the lowest maintenance fees in the country, yet we can trade anywhere II goes. Years ago the resort belonged to both RCI and II...and Disney I believe used to be II. If Disney is serious about getting more people on property they would open to both II and RCI-DVC owners would then have greater flexibility as well. I have found that once you start getting familiar with a place you tend to spend less money (or , well, we do anyway) as you learn the tricks/less expensive places to eat, shop etc...

 

[Dean]

I think Jim's just latched on to this question as one he would really like to know for sure, I'm the same way at times like when you're looking for something and know you should be able to find it but can't. Jim, you might try This Thread from a few yrs ago, it does have some info on the subject as well as a couple of people you might contact directly to get further info. Look at Post #7 & #9 which seem contradictory as well. It also contains some erroneous information about not being able to bank the last 4 months of the UY.

 

[JimMIA]

Thanks for the link, Dean. I sent a PM to one person who apparently had an actual experience. The information was right there at our fingertips, but nobody asked specific enough questions to find out the specific facts needed to answer this.

We'll see what we get from that PM.

 

[LouisianaDisneyFan]

Hi all, I'm the member that Jim messaged. I have actual experience banking DVC points to RCI and have traveled with those points. The policy that Jim quoted is accurate: "The exchange request may be placed at the same time that the Vacation Time is deposited or at any time thereafter, but no later than the end of second calendar year after the date of the deposited Vacation Time."

In his example, Jim showed points deposited in November 2014 expiring in December 2015. However, that is incorrect. Points deposited in November 2014 would expire in December 2016 (second calendar year AFTER).

Our most recent example... points deposited on August 16, 2014. These points will expire on December 31, 2016. That is two years, 3 months and 15 days after the date they were banked. I wouldn't call that a ripoff... and I'm happy to have the option.

 

[JimMIA]

Thank you so much for the information!

The key concept here is that the points expire at the end of the second FULL calendar year following deposit. The calendar year of the deposit is not counted.

So -- rather than getting ripped off -- DVC owners actually get AT LEAST two full years of use from points deposited into RCI. That's a better deal than regular RCI members get.

 

[Dean]

Hi all, I'm the member that Jim messaged. I have actual experience banking DVC points to RCI and have traveled with those points. The policy that Jim quoted is accurate: "The exchange request may be placed at the same time that the Vacation Time is deposited or at any time thereafter, but no later than the end of second calendar year after the date of the deposited Vacation Time."

In his example, Jim showed points deposited in November 2014 expiring in December 2015. However, that is incorrect. Points deposited in November 2014 would expire in December 2016 (second calendar year AFTER).

Our most recent example... points deposited on August 16, 2014. These points will expire on December 31, 2016. That is two years, 3 months and 15 days after the date they were banked. Additionally, some of these had already been banked in DVC from my prior use year, but the reservation was cancelled last minute. So, instead of losing the points, I have extended their use by an additional two years. I wouldn't call that a ripoff... and I'm happy to have the option.

I wonder if it's because the time deposited was in the next calendar year as that should be the determining start date, not the date of the deposit. What's your UY. 2 yrs plus is good though, anything to give an additional benefit to the member exchange process.

 

[JimMIA]

I wonder if it's because the time deposited was in the next calendar year as that should be the determining start date, not the date of the deposit. What's your UY. 2 yrs plus is good though, anything to give an additional benefit to the member exchange process.

I don't think so. I believe their UY is September and they deposited in August because the points were just about to expire.

Your point is well-taken though. This is one of those "devil in the details" issues where it would be good to know exactly how that expiration date was established.

I don't know why RCI didn't do end-of-the-month two years after deposit like they do everyone else, but at least the way this appears it's a little better than everyone else gets.