DVC presentation and deceptive guide

[dudelydude]

My folks were down at WDW last week and my dad met with a guide at the DVC presentation at BLT on Saturday morning. My dad is very naive and brought up the option of buying BLT on the resale market at a reduced price and the guide told him that Disney will ROFR most BLT resale contracts because it's such a new resort. I told him that he should completely forget anything that his guide told him after he used the word, "Resale."

I know...not telling you DVC vets anything you didn't know already, but just reinforcing how deceptive a guide CAN be. Also, that they are still "giving" 2009 points as an "incentive."

 

[extremesoccermom]

It has to be hard for the guides at WDW not to dislike resales. While my guide did not tell me not to buy resale I did see his lips clench. They make their living by selling DVC every resale is money out of their pocket.
However, I don't BLT resale is a very good deal right now. The price is not that much lower than the incentives and with Disney you do not have to pay the closing fee.

 

[Chuck S]

I think accusing DVC of being deceptive in those cases is not accurate. We have no idea what percentage of BLT contracts are reacquired through ROFR. If DVC does ROFR 50.01% of BLT resales, that is technically most of them.

And 2009 points can be an incentive, especially as we are now within 4 months of the end of all 2009 use years, considering DVC waives the banking window for 2009 points if purchased direct vs. resale.

Sure, they are stretching the truth, but certainly not "deceptive." They are not blantly being told something that isn't true.

 

[drusba]

It is not something the sales rep should say. It is probably something Disney would tell the sales rep he should not say if they knew he did it. The chances are close to 100% that the sales rep had no idea how many BLT contracts Disney buys resale since the new sales side of the business is separate from anything having to do with ROFR on resales. These are the kinds of lines that come out of a salesman's mouth in reaction to an immediate question for which Disney probably has not scripted an answer. Disney does a good job of training to avoid high pressure and preventing misleading statements but regardless of how good they are things are going to slip on an individual basis at times.

 

[Crystal_27]

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Disney is ROFRing the majority of BLT contracts due to the price difference now opposed to a year ago. If Disney can buy back those contracts that are being listed at $96/point, and turn around and sell them for $114/point, I would assume that would make good business sense to them. But, truthfully, if I was taking a DVC tour, I wouldn't expect a Guide to be honest about resale in the first place, so I wouldn't even bring it up - LOLOLOL.

 

[disney11fan]

what is BLT AND WHAT IS ROFR?

 

[disney11fan]

Is there a resale thread here. Just curious ..so i can follow what's going on in this board.

 

[kamik86]

I'm not sure if there is a resale thread but ROFR is right of first refusal. After a price is reached between a buyer and seller in resale Disney can decide that the price is too low and buy it from the buyer at the price themselves.

BLT is Bay Lake Tower, the new DVC unit near the contemporary.

 

[JimMIA]

When I first started looking and mentioned resale to my guide, she told me they had just been called to a "Special Meeting" that very morning and had been told that DVC would be ROFRing every contract for some unspecified period of time.

She was lying, both about the meeting and about ROFR.

DVC guides are reportedly better than most in the industry, but they're all timeshare salespersons, so it's a matter of degree, not kind. A consumer really has to protect themselves with all timeshare sales people.

 

[Brian Noble]

At the end of the day, a guide is a timeshare salesman. If s/he doesn't sell, s/he doesn't get paid. Period, end of story.

But, a smart guide wouldn't have said "we buy back most of them." A smart guide would have said: "Well, we have this thing called ROFR. That lets Disney buy back any contract that sells for too little money on the secondary market. As you can see, that could make getting a good deal resale pretty tough! It also takes a while to go through that process. But, if you want to get in right now and start booking those magical vacations, well we can do that for you today---and you'll be getting those 2009 points, too!"

So, you never say "We do X" which is a falsifiable claim. Instead, you paint a picture of what *might* be to the mark. Nothing is actually untrue, but you're leading the mark to a conclusion that favors the developer sale.

If Disney can buy back those contracts that are being listed at $96/point, and turn around and sell them for $114/point, I would assume that would make good business sense to them.

Actually, I bet it's not. The rule of thumb in the timeshare industry is that marketing and sales expenses make up anywhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of the total cost of a property. Disney doesn't do the tour gifting that a lot of developers use, but the have an *army* of "body snatchers" (the people at the resorts, in the parks, and in DTD to get you to sign up for a tour) and that has to be a significant expense.

 

[JimMIA]

FWIW, the ROFR thread shows 7 BLT sales passed and only one ROFR'd...and that was back in January '10.

Obviously our ROFR thread is only a small look at a big picture, but it's all we have unless some of the TTS folks come on and provide additional info.

 

[JimMIA]

Sure, they are stretching the truth, but certainly not "deceptive." They are not blantly being told something that isn't true.

Hey Chuck...if you don't think "stretching the truth" is "deceptive," I have some advice for you:

DON'T take any lie detector tests, my friend!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Disney is ROFRing the majority of BLT contracts due to the price difference now opposed to a year ago. If Disney can buy back those contracts that are being listed at $96/point, and turn around and sell them for $114/point, I would assume that would make good business sense to them. But, truthfully, if I was taking a DVC tour, I wouldn't expect a Guide to be honest about resale in the first place, so I wouldn't even bring it up - LOLOLOL.

All reports from boards and from resale agents are that Disney is not ROFRing much of anything except BCV.

My guide recently told me that DVC is buying back every VGC contract that comes up thru resale. There has been very few for comparison but all reported on this board have passed. And I hadn't even brought up resale to my guide! I know it's a line though and decreases their credibility in my eyes.

 

[Corwin]

what is BLT AND WHAT IS ROFR?

See here:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1660743

 

[Chuck S]

Hey Chuck...if you don't think "stretching the truth" is "deceptive," I have some advice for you:

DON'T take any lie detector tests, my friend!

No, not really. Again, we don't know that what they are saying is absolutely untrue. Therefore it really isn't deceptive, according to some of the rulings we've seen here in Texas when someone has sued for deceptive trade practices.

Of course, I live in a state where the board of education likes to change history as written in the school books.

 

[JBx3]

My folks were down at WDW last week and my dad met with a guide at the DVC presentation at BLT on Saturday morning. My dad is very naive and brought up the option of buying BLT on the resale market at a reduced price and the guide told him that Disney will ROFR most BLT resale contracts because it's such a new resort. I told him that he should completely forget anything that his guide told him after he used the word, "Resale."

I know...not telling you DVC vets anything you didn't know already, but just reinforcing how deceptive a guide CAN be. Also, that they are still "giving" 2009 points as an "incentive."

I agree, once you mention resale, its a new battlefield! It has happened to me for sure.

 

[JimMIA]

No, not really. Again, we don't know that what they are saying is absolutely untrue. Therefore it really isn't deceptive, according to some of the rulings we've seen here in Texas when someone has sued for deceptive trade practices.

Of course, I live in a state where the board of education likes to change history as written in the school books.

Oh, I agree with you on deceptive trade practice. I was just pointing out that a person who is stretching the truth will do very poorly on a lie detector test because they know they're not being entirely truthful.

Just busting your chops!

 

[Deb & Bill]

... And I hadn't even brought up resale to my guide! I know it's a line though and decreases their credibility in my eyes.

The first guide we were assigned never bothered us. There was only contact when we made it and wanted to buy points. She was busy and didn't need to keep contacting us. But now there are many more "guides" (nice term, no?) and the competition is much greater. I see the DVC guides becoming more like those other timeshare salespeople.

 

[JBx3]

Great point on the term "guides" Got a good chuckle....never thought of what the term may mean but what you said sure does does sense to me! They certainly manage their wording well to avoid the deceptive. I think DVC guides do walk a fine line. One of the big things that most of them do not guide a new buyer on is that they have an opportunity to break their contract size into smaller point bites, which down the road can really help an owner. That was never mentioned to us from our "guide"

 

[PoohNFriends]

At the end of the day, a guide is a timeshare salesman. If s/he doesn't sell, s/he doesn't get paid. Period, end of story.

But, a smart guide wouldn't have said "we buy back most of them." A smart guide would have said: "Well, we have this thing called ROFR. That lets Disney buy back any contract that sells for too little money on the secondary market. As you can see, that could make getting a good deal resale pretty tough! It also takes a while to go through that process. But, if you want to get in right now and start booking those magical vacations, well we can do that for you today---and you'll be getting those 2009 points, too!"

So, you never say "We do X" which is a falsifiable claim. Instead, you paint a picture of what *might* be to the mark. Nothing is actually untrue, but you're leading the mark to a conclusion that favors the developer sale.


Actually, I bet it's not. The rule of thumb in the timeshare industry is that marketing and sales expenses make up anywhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of the total cost of a property. Disney doesn't do the tour gifting that a lot of developers use, but the have an *army* of "body snatchers" (the people at the resorts, in the parks, and in DTD to get you to sign up for a tour) and that has to be a significant expense.

You would think Disney would have trained the guides to say something like this? Maybe they do, but this guy was having a "bad day"?