DVC-please do away with cash inventory!

[kamgen]

wow, you guys are funny

 

[DebbieB]

You bought a membership and did not read the contract. Why not sell the points and stop complaining? Complainers need to go away!

That was uncalled for.

I understand where the OP is coming from. It's frustrating to see rooms available through CRO but you cannot book them with DVC points. But that's just the way the program works.

 

[Lynne M]

You bought a membership and did not read the contract. Why not sell the points and stop complaining? Complainers need to go away!

These forums exist to discuss our memberships and our trips, and help people learn and understand the program. The OP has a concern, we're trying to understand her concern and help her understand the way point vs. cash reservations work. We discuss the good AND the not-so-good aspects of DVC ownership here, so, no, complainers do not need to go away. Opinions of all kinds are welcome. Rudeness, not so much.

 

[kamgen]

Debbie & Lynne M- Thanks! Finally someone out there understood me. I UNDERSTAND how the program works, but I am still allowed to be frustrated. I always looked at the DIS as a place for us to be frustrated and vent that...without rudeness.

 

[crisi]

While I do appreciate everyone's insight and opinions, I look at it in simple terms.
Why leave a room empty because it was in cash inventory if a member has points and wants to use them there......
And it does happen.

I guess i should have named this thread something different. I understand we cannot do away with cash inventory, but I do think rooms should not be left empty if members want them. I also dont agree with so many non-members staying at the DVC resorts. Villas are for members....in my humble opinion. I know that opens up a totally different argument, so we won't go there.

no flames please

The problem is that DVC doesn't own most of these rooms anymore - they've been sold to CRO.

Its like when you go buy a new car - and decide to pay for that new car you'll sell the old car. You sell the old car, then your son comes home from college and would like a car. Maybe the person you sold it to is on vacation and isn't using it, but it isn't yours to use any longer.

DVC has sold the room in order for another DVC member to buy a room at a different resort - might be the Poly, might be the cruise line, might be a Concierge collection resort.

CRO can't "loan" the room back to Disney, because that would create accounting issues....though Jim Lewis apparently has said that they are working on something that might give the system more flexibility in moving rooms back and forth (I'm not holding my breath). That would be very cool, but even then there will be limitations - DVC/CRO accounting needs to keep room usage in the correct use year, just like you do. If I use 2009 points to book a cruise, Disney is going to dig themselves a huge accounting hole if CRO doesn't book that room until 2012.

 

[Dean]

I do appreciate the information and I do understand the reasoning around it. However, there are people who get the Cash ressies without any of those affiliations....they are not other TS folks trading in. What frustrates me as that ANYONE can get a ressie and members cannot. I do appreciate our getaway options, etc... however, I do not appreciate that anyone can go to the Disney World website and book a villa and members cannot. I know I speak for many members when I say this. There has to be a way to increase member availability. Thanks.

While I understand the emotions involved, they are simply that, emotions. My interpretation is that you understand the facts but can't get past the emotions, fair enough. These issues happen at every hotel and every timeshare to one degree or another but for DVC and Disney it's simply more transparent. Some timeshares are at occupancy less than 30% off season even though most of those units are owned and usually the maint fees are being paid (at least in the past). And a significant portion of RCI & II deposits are never redeemed either and those people are paying yearly fees plus the exchange membership fee. Partly this is due to people not being able to get something they're happy with and that's an entire 20 page thread unto itself. And if the unit is owned and/or reserved, often the resort doesn't even know about it until a few days after the start of that week. And they couldn't give it away if they tried. In many ways, DVC really is no different, it's just that we use a different reservation system which actually allows this to be obvious.

The only way for there to be no cash rooms would be for DVC to eat those unsold units and to eliminate completely any exchange options other than private exchanges. Even then units would go empty if reserved or unreserved, you just wouldn't hear about it or be able to see it. DVC already shunts exhange units to lower demand times and lower demand resorts for the most part. Many systems do developer deposits then go after those that exchange in far more aggressively than does DVC. This would also mean higher dues as a portion of those cash reservations go toward keeping dues down.

Every resort and system I know of has a tendency to let units go empty that could be put to good use. Say you own a gardenview unit on Maui and they have a number of ocean front units sitting empty. They will let them set empty rather than give you a better unit. In this example it's positioning for future sales. If they routinely gave you a better unit than you owned, why buy the more expensive unit. At many resorts shoulder and off season weeks often cost more in dues than they are truly worth. For DVC the points system and per point fees account for this but if you're paying $1000 a year in fees for a unit you can routinely rent for $400 or less, you are subsizing the other owners that own higher demand/value weeks at least in once way of looking at it.

So the fix as I see it is to eliminate all exchanges, likely including to other DVC resorts, raise fees 5%, and have DVC do developer deposits so RCI members can trade in more instead of renting unsold units. Personally I'm glad there's an outlet for easy rental, it increases the value of our ownership.

 

[Brian Noble]

So please understand that I do understand

If you really do understand, then you are not expressing yourself well.

Your goal, stated simply, is "Villas should be for Members."

Some villas are owned by DVC. They can do with them what they will. Nothing the Members can say about that.

But, the other villas in cash inventory were for Members. Some other Member effectively booked it and rented it (through CRO) for cash to pay for the cruise or non-DVC resort room they desired.

So, the villas that are owned by Members are for Members. Which is exactly what you want. Yet, you are still unhappy, despite the fact that the current system precisely meets your stated goal.

 

[TLPL]

Wow four pages already, amazing!

Since it seems many of you don't understand, I will let this one go. Before I do, let me clarify a few things:

1. The last minute ressie was not for me, it was for someone else who vented their frustration to me...so thanks for killing the messenger.

Wait a minute, you were trying to make a DVC reservation for someone else? Are they DVC members? Because I read somewhere someone doesn't understand why Disney allow non DVC members stay in DVC resorts.

 

[mopee3]

I have found this discussion interesting because it has shown me a side of DVC that I didn't realize was out there, or at least hadn't thought about. There are rooms going maybe without people and cannot be rented with points but with cash.

So if I had traded "out" to DCL with my points and needed a place to stay at the last minute before the ship left, well I should be able to use my points! Right. kamgen?? Is this what has happened to you. Because I see from you previous posts you appear to have "traded out" a number of times to DCL. I am guessing you have discussed this with other people, DVC members or not, on the cruses you have been on and have come to the conclusion you all are being wronged or at least wish the rules were different. Could be, but that’s what you signed on the dotted line for and now you have a choice: complain to DIS and management, sell your points, or continue to enjoy the DVC points and the rules. Maybe realizing that it’s the rules that make DVC so much fun for so many people, kind of like laws that keep us safe.

Chow and may you receive all you wish for.

Moe

 

[alldiz]

OP I can understand your frustration.....but I did benefit from it.

I didn't have enough points for my last day of vacation.....they had a cash discount available.....which enabled me to stay that last night.

Of course that same night was unavailable on points later on, but as a member I did benefit from the cash ressie.
Kerri

 

[JimMIA]

This is one of those amusing "WAHHHHH!" threads that I usually ignore, but I did want to point out one observation.

I have not dissected every word in every post on each of the four pages here, but I don't believe I have seen a single ACTUAL complaint from anyone who has personally been unable to get a ressie because of cash inventory -- or anything else. All I see are a few "I've heard complaints" -- no actual, real problems.

Even OP's friend could get a last-minute ressie...just not where they wanted to stay. And apparently, they preferred whining to waitlisting...

Welcome to the world of timeshares! Anyone who thinks they can book any timeshare last-minute and have their pick of resort and accommodations is just living in a dream world. Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on anyone else's part.

Carol gave some real examples of her real success in getting last minute ressies, despite the heinous "cash inventory crisis." My daughters could give you a dozen or so additional examples, because they almost never book earlier than three months out.

If anyone has any real problems booking because of cash inventory -- as opposed to theoretical potential issues flowing mainly from their lack of understanding of their own timeshare -- I'd love to hear them.

 

[alldiz]

This is one of those amusing "WAHHHHH!" threads that I usually ignore, but I did want to point out one observation.

I have not dissected every word in every post on each of the four pages here, but I don't believe I have seen a single ACTUAL complaint from anyone who has personally been unable to get a ressie because of cash inventory -- or anything else. All I see are a few "I've heard complaints" -- no actual, real problems.

Even OP's friend could get a last-minute ressie...just not where they wanted to stay. And apparently, they preferred whining to waitlisting...

Welcome to the world of timeshares! Anyone who thinks they can book any timeshare last-minute and have their pick of resort and accommodations is just living in a dream world. Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on anyone else's part.

Carol gave some real examples of her real success in getting last minute ressies, despite the heinous "cash inventory crisis." My daughters could give you a dozen or so additional examples, because they almost never book earlier than three months out.

If anyone has any real problems booking because of cash inventory -- as opposed to theoretical potential issues flowing mainly from their lack of understanding of their own timeshare -- I'd love to hear them.

The line I bolded has got to be one of my all time favorites
Kerri

 

[mickeymorse]

I also dont agree with so many non-members staying at the DVC resorts. Villas are for members....in my humble opinion. I know that opens up a totally different argument, so we won't go there.

no flames please

Not to flame you but the reason I am now an owner is the fact that I stayed at a DVC resort on rented points. I loved my stay and decided that I wanted complete control of my ressie next time.

 

[Starr W.]

This is one of those amusing "WAHHHHH!" threads that I usually ignore, but I did want to point out one observation.

I have not dissected every word in every post on each of the four pages here, but I don't believe I have seen a single ACTUAL complaint from anyone who has personally been unable to get a ressie because of cash inventory -- or anything else. All I see are a few "I've heard complaints" -- no actual, real problems.

Even OP's friend could get a last-minute ressie...just not where they wanted to stay. And apparently, they preferred whining to waitlisting...

Welcome to the world of timeshares! Anyone who thinks they can book any timeshare last-minute and have their pick of resort and accommodations is just living in a dream world. Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on anyone else's part.

Carol gave some real examples of her real success in getting last minute ressies, despite the heinous "cash inventory crisis." My daughters could give you a dozen or so additional examples, because they almost never book earlier than three months out.

If anyone has any real problems booking because of cash inventory -- as opposed to theoretical potential issues flowing mainly from their lack of understanding of their own timeshare -- I'd love to hear them.

Jim.

Though "WAHHHHH!" threads are one of my guilty pleasures of the DIS boards.

 

[Simba's Mom]

OP I can understand your frustration.....but I did benefit from it.

I didn't have enough points for my last day of vacation.....they had a cash discount available.....which enabled me to stay that last night.

Of course that same night was unavailable on points later on, but as a member I did benefit from the cash ressie.
Kerri

I think the OP is talking about full cash thru CRO. Member's cash often isn't that bad at 25% off. I'm just wondering (after 7 years of membership I'm still learning things), aren't member's cash rooms a third inventory? I've been on the waiting list for points for months, called back at about 2 months, only to find a room available on Member's cash discount.
And just because you know how things work, doesn't mean you always like it.

 

[Tina]

And just because you know how things work, doesn't mean you always like it.

I think that is exactly the point of the OP. She was merely ranting, which a very high percentage of us do here on the DIS. I've been in her shoes myself with trying to add on nights to find only cash discounted rooms available. Its frustrating and rant-worthy. I think I ranted about my own inability to book when it happened to me. Then I moved on. However, my rant wasn't bludgeoned to death like this one has been.

I feel a Rodney King moment coming on...... "Can't we all just get along?"

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

If anyone has any real problems booking because of cash inventory -- as opposed to theoretical potential issues flowing mainly from their lack of understanding of their own timeshare -- I'd love to hear them.

OK Jim I'll give you one but we are in general agreement on this issue.

We always plan 11 months in advance (see countdown below) but for the first time in almost 9 years of membership, we decided to try and do a last minute four night, long weekend. We could only get two of the nights even though there were rooms available for cash. That being said, I get the system and accept it. The system is the system. Kinda like from the Godfather where Hyman Roth tells Michael "this is the business we've chosen." This is the Timeshare we've chosen.

HBC

 

[jagson]

Is there a point in time where CRO would trade points back to MS to satisfy a DVC member's request? Maybe, trade current points for future points; say points that CRO can't sell, and will expire? Does CRO ever eat the cash reservations? Do rooms go empty for lack of buyers? If so, why not return the rooms to MS for last moment reservations for DVC membrs? Or is it more complex than it seems to be?

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Is there a point in time where CRO would trade points back to MS to satisfy a DVC member's request?

I don't know if there is a definitive answer to this but I'll give you an example of an experience we had.

When we originally purchased we were staying for eight nights (I think, it was a while ago). Three nights into the trip we did a tour and purchased DVC on one condition. I told them we would only do it if we could switch the rest of the trip to the points we just purchased. Our Guide made that happen somehow and what I was going to spend on the room, instead went to a down payment on the DVC. We stayed our last four or five nights on points. This was during the busy Presidents' week in February. Maybe DVC and CRO have an arangement for just such an occasion but there were supposedly no point rooms available until someone made one available.

HBC

 

[jbrowna]

Tina- thanks for trying to understand and offering a solution idea (even though we know it wont happen! LOL!)
We have traded out twice in 8 years but plan to later as our kids get older. So we would not want a different membership. But any idea is better than no idea!

Still it comes down to a simple issue, members being shut out while ANYONE can stay at a DVC resort. Despite all the explanations and justifications for it, it is still frustrating and annoying to pay membership and dues and be asked to pay more out of pocket for a room.

The fact is members aren't "shut out". Like anyone else, they can rent those traded out rooms for cash. True, they can't use points, but in essence the points have already been used in a trade.

To me, any proposed solution is much worse than the problem.